Gunman on the loose - Moncton

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Jun 5th 2014, 8:00 pm

#46

burks

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Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarylandNed

The numbers I saw were for small firearms (e.g. revolvers, pistols). In the Small Firearms Survey, Canada had about 31 guns per 100 residents. England & Wales had about 6 per 100 residents.

Apparently there are only about 15,000 handguns in civilian possession in the UK

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

Quote:

Originally Posted by BristolUK

That's just a few minutes from me.

But it seems he's not there and the RCMP moved on.

Yeah the news is saying they have moved on. They keep telling people not to report the location of police activities etc, and yet they are live streaming the location nationwide!

Jun 5th 2014, 8:36 pm

#47

magnumpi

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Joined: Aug 2008

Location: Ajax, Ontario

Posts: 7,261

Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by BristolUK

Why should it be any more difficult than,say, restricting driving to licenced drivers?

Lol yeh there is no one driving without a licence today is there ? Why would they? It's against the law of course, just as driving without insurance is unlawfull .

Jun 5th 2014, 9:53 pm

#48

Alan2005

Joined: Aug 2005

Posts: 14,227

Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnumpi

Lol yeh there is no one driving without a licence today is there ? Why would they? It's against the law of course, just as driving without insurance is unlawfull .

I agree. No point in having any laws, people are just going to break them anyway.

Jun 5th 2014, 10:14 pm

#49

Jericho79

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Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootb

It has been proven in America that tougher gun laws does NOT lower firearm crimes,no matter how much you might wish or think that they do!

The only thing that America has proven is that more guns = more gun crime. You cannot deny that fact.

Countries with tight gun laws have lower gun crime. Fact.

The problem with America is that they have gone beyond the point of no return- there are simply too many guns, and no amount of gun control imposed now will make a significant difference. Illegal gun owners wont care, and legal gun owners will kick off royally if they are forced to hand them in.

More guns is not the answer.

Jun 5th 2014, 10:23 pm

#50

Steve_

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Joined: Jul 2010

Location: Calgary, Alberta

Posts: 8,928

Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jericho79

The only thing that America has proven is that more guns = more gun crime. You cannot deny that fact.

Quote:

Countries with tight gun laws have lower gun crime. Fact.

Not fact, all Caribbean countries for example have pretty strict gun laws (because they were imposed by European countries) and several have way higher rates of armed crime than the US does.

Quote:

More guns is not the answer.

Well at this point I don't think it makes a difference.

Jun 5th 2014, 11:00 pm

#51

BristolUK

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Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnumpi

Lol yeh there is no one driving without a licence today is there ? Why would they? It's against the law of course, just as driving without insurance is unlawfull .

Of course. When things are against the law some people may disregard it. But crucially there will be more people NOT doing something because a licence is needed and they don't have one, than would be doing it if no licence was needed.

The fact that some will still drive without the licence doesn't stop the authorities from restricting driving to people with licences.

Jun 5th 2014, 11:06 pm

#52

Jericho79

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Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_

Yes you can: http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011...1/crime_052311 and more recently: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...uary-june-2013

At the same time as the amount of guns in circulation has risen: http://www.atf.gov/statistics/index.html (manufacture and import statistics)

Not fact, all Caribbean countries for example have pretty strict gun laws (because they were imposed by European countries) and several have way higher rates of armed crime than the US does.

Well at this point I don't think it makes a difference.

The first two links speak to violent crime- not gun crime. To argue against "more guns = more gun crime" you have to take the position that "more guns = less gun crime" which doesnt really make sense.... or "less guns = more gun crime" which is equally ridiculous.

The link to the ATF website is based on legal firearms. Given the huge volume of illegal firearms and their involvement in crime, the info is unreliable.

Re the Caribbean- perhaps I should rephrase as "tightly controlled gun laws"

Jun 6th 2014, 12:10 am

#53

magnumpi

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Joined: Aug 2008

Location: Ajax, Ontario

Posts: 7,261

Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan2005

I agree. No point in having any laws, people are just going to break them anyway.

I didn't say that now did I, I said license or none people will still get what they want if desperate or mad enough.

Anyhow isn't it already illegal to own a fire arm without a license or did I just miss a sudden and new law?

Jun 6th 2014, 12:56 am

#54

pennyhp

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Joined: Sep 2003

Location: Moncton NB

Posts: 994

Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Its now over 24 hours since it all began and he is still at large. Schools are all closed again tomorrow.

Jun 6th 2014, 1:38 am

#55

Steve_

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Joined: Jul 2010

Location: Calgary, Alberta

Posts: 8,928

Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jericho79

Quote:

The link to the ATF website is based on legal firearms. Given the huge volume of illegal firearms and their involvement in crime, the info is unreliable.

Only unreliable because it proves your statement was wrong - the number of firearms in circulation has clearly gone up, the rate of firearm-related crime has clearly gone down. You never drew a difference between illegal and legal firearms in your original statement of "fact".

Quote:

Re the Caribbean- perhaps I should rephrase as "tightly controlled gun laws"

Define that.

It's not as clear cut as you thought it was...

Jun 6th 2014, 2:00 am

#56

JamesM

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Joined: Nov 2006

Location: Toronto

Posts: 8,240

Re: Gunman on the loose - Moncton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_

You need to stop using such broad qualifiers, it's entirely possible that there could be more more guns and less gun crime or less guns and more gun crime. Criminality related to guns is not dictated by the number of guns in circulation, necessarily:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-8

Shows quite clearly that firearm-related homicide in the US is going down, and at the same time the population is increasing.

Only unreliable because it proves your statement was wrong - the number of firearms in circulation has clearly gone up, the rate of firearm-related crime has clearly gone down. You never drew a difference between illegal and legal firearms in your original statement of "fact".

Define that.

It's not as clear cut as you thought it was...

What Steve is trying to articulate is that you should not blame the gun and having guns is a good thing because people use guns safely it is criminals who don't.

This man could easily be as dangerous with a frying pan, ice skate or ball point pen. He is a bad egg. There is no way the police would have been able to tackle him.

Access to guns has nothing to do with it. People are dangerous. Guns are not. Guns are practical like cars.