Guarantor for PR card
 

Hi
What have other people done about a guarantor on their PR card application? I am finding it difficult to find someone and I need to leave Canada in May on business.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Sorry I don't understand what you mean as we weren't asked for one. We completed our landing and the PR cards were sent to us a few weeks later (without having to fill in any separate forms).

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

MMmmmm, we have received zip! I was a returning resident, maybe that was the problem as I travelled on a returning residents permit

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Yes, people who were already PRs (not new ones landing) have to apply for the card themselves. If you don't have a guarantor, go to a lawyer and pay him to do the "declaration in lieu of guarantor" instead. It cost me about $60 to have that done when I applied. No idea about how long it will take, but it shouldn't be that bad now that the big crush is over.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Hi Sysclp
Thanks for that, that is what I wanted to know. At least I'll be able to get a guarantor and get the application sent off

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Why bother and worry? According to Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink, the moderator, you don't need a PR card. They're a waste of time. Air Canada says so!

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

So you agree with me now? Ah good :)

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Absolutely not. Always check out the source of your information .... and yours was???

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

To enter Canada from a visa free country, you need a valid passport of that country - nothing more, regardless of your status in Canada. You can declare yourself as a PR to Canadian immigration when you reach there. The source for that would be CIC.

We discussed last time that it'd be rather discriminatory for CIC to effectively create a 2 tier PR system and flaunt the fact that visa waiver nationals do not need a PR card for entering Canada by commercial carrier, so they don't. Air Canada are honest about it in their policy as quoted to you last time.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

I think I argued that there would not be a two-tier system and you argued the opposite. It is irrelevant where you come from once you are a PR of Canada - you should have a PR card when returning from a trip outside of Canada - that is very specifically stated on the CIC site. Forget visa waiver, it's irrelevant.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Permanent residents have a right to be admitted to Canada whether they have a PR Card or not - section 19(2) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA) is your reference.

IRPA overrides whatever is said on the CIC site.



But it is relevant as if you have a visa waiver passport an airline has no basis to ask you for a PR Card. How are they going to know in the first place? - people don't go around with "PERMANENT RESIDENT" stamped on their foreheads.



Jeremy

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Who are you? You fly an Australian flag and try to be authoritative on a Canadian site? If all you say is true please explain to me and others why the Canadian government bothered to bring out the PR card - was it to use surplus plastic?

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

It's not irrelevant, visa waiver nationals can board commercial craft to Canada on the strength of that alone, others cannot.

There is a two tier system, what I said was I don't think CIC like to shout about it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Edit: why did they introduce the cards? -I never saw an IMM1000 but I gather it was a piece of paper and easily forged. The cards have a ton of security features.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

I think I remember you saying something like this before. So, for you, and that guy in Australia, this is your version of how it is:
People from all over the world apply to become permanent residents of Canada. However, there are already two distinct 'groups': those from countries where visas to visit Canada is necessary and those from countries where visas are not necessary.
Becoming Permanent Residents of Canada does not equalise these two groups. Their status remains: those from countries which did not need a visa to visit Canada are blessed with a total no need for PR cards when returning to Canada by commercial carrier. However, those from nations who needed a visa to visit Canada are subjected to the same requirements and must have a PR card!
This is Canada. Are you pulling my plonker?

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

True, and they don't go around with "IDIOT" stamped on their forehead either, or "second class permanent resident of Canada".

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Yes.

Essentially yes, but *nobody* has to have a PR card, those who cannot travel visa-free can either get a visa (why would they get one of those if they were a PR?) or a travel document.

What do you mean by that? -that no group of people is treated differently here? I have first hand experience of very discriminatory CIC policy, sorry, but it ain't so ;)

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

So, good old Canada just brought this requirement in to use up a stockpile of un-used government owned plastic, eh? Funny how someone who does not need to work seems to know so much about these things. If you really know what you are talking about tell me why the PR card exist.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Did you miss my earlier post about paper IMM1000s being easily forged?

Can you expand on that? -I don't follow your train of thought.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

You never saw a IMM1000? If you are a PR it is stapled to one of the pages to your passport. The PR Card became essential after 9 11. But neither you nor your Australian buddy has gathered the true importance of the PR Card.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Think a little.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

I didn't say I didn't know what one was, just that I have never seen one.

Why?

What is its true importance in your opinion?

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

I don't follow you. Can you explain what you meant?

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Basically, you seem to try to come over as an expert, but to me you are obviously not an expert. I have said this before tonight, people are relying on people such as yourself to produce information about living in Canada so make it real, not just your view because you don't know any better.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Considering the argument, I think you should reveal your status on this subject. Between you and the other guy, it would seem that we should all say forget PR cards, they are of no importance.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

I'm not trying to come over as an anything, but there's little I can do about it if that's your perception of the situation.

I'm sorry you didn't like dbd33's description of his neighbourhood today, nor my opinion on visa waiver nationals travelling without PR cards... but I'm not sure why you're so angry about it all?

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

You know, I don't actually have much time to spend on this goodly site. I am not angry about any of it. It is important to me that the right message gets over to those people who are thinking about coming over here gets to them and none of us deters them through knowledge we actually lack. Db's contribution is as ever, sometimes entertaining and others insulting because he happens to live in a small and rather suspicious area in east Tonronto where

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

I'm loathe to intrude on an increasingly tetchy conversation but hell, I'm a grown-up, I can do this :) Anyway my experience has been that on my return through YVR in August of last year with my IMM1000 in my hot little hand I was taken to the naughty corner and quizzed as to why I had not exchanged my form for a PR card. When I stated that I was only entering Canada for a two week holiday the immigration officers made it quite clear that they weren't happy and I would most definitely need the card when I returned to Canada to live. They, admittedly, didn't outline what would happen if I ignored this advice but my view?....why wind them up? I don't need to have a legislation discussion everytime I come and go.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Of course one *should* have a PR Card, but one does not *have* to have a PR Card. Any PR living in Canada should get a PR Card for a simple life, but there are times when it's not been practical to obtain the card when there's a need to travel.

Section 19(2) of IRPA says:

"(2) An officer shall allow a permanent resident to enter Canada if satisfied following an examination on their entry that they have that status."

They have all your details in the system, PR Card or no PR Card (except maybe for those who immigrated long ago, where records are manual).

As for what the PR Card is used for:

- non visa waiver nationals do need it to board Canada bound commercial transport; (CIC don't like to admit the distinction, but in the real world it's there). It's more secure than the old IMM1000.
- it's becoming increasingly used for internal purposes in Canada as a proof of status document.

Although a PR Card in itself does not even prove you are a PR, it only creates a presumption to that effect.

The only way CIC could force all PRs to have the PR Card would be to create a universal visa regime, like Australia has.


Jeremy

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

what have I started???? Sorry guys. I got my answer I needed and I am going to get a PR card. My original problem was getting a guarantor. I have now sorted this. Stay cool Biiiiiink, I have always found your comments useful!

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

where what ? I'm dying to know. Also, how is the east end suspicious ?

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

My point exactly - which is how this discussion came about the first time. You implied that "landers and leavers" had 60 days after landing to get driving licenses, that there was an urgent need for SINs, and that it was compulsory to have a PR card to return to Canada. Imho none of those statements was accurate, I didn't want them to pass into forum legend so I stated the reasons why each was not necessary.

I think you conceded I was right on the driving license and SIN, but you wouldn't agree about the PR card - your prerogative. If you want a discussion about it, I'll discuss. If you just want to make more sarky comments and thinly-veiled insults, I won't.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

I wouldn't advocate trying to live life as PR in Canada without one, this debate sprung from an earlier one where JCExit was telling someone who was landing and leaving that they would not get back in to Canada without a PR card. As you've experienced, that's definitely not the case.

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

I've re entered Canada several times from the UK and US since becoming a PR and every airline has asked me for the PR Card at check in at both Manchester Airport and Chicago. I'm sure if I didn't have it I could have argued my way in based on my UK Passport, however there is no guarantee and the airline is allowed to refuse you boarding so I'd think it best to have it unless you don't mind running the risk of spending excessive amounts of time in airports.

In that respect the PR Card is just a travel document guarantee to the airline that you will be granted access and they won't have to pay to fly you back if you are refused entry to Canada. So as said earlier with a visa waiver passport they are presuming that you will be granted access. That thinking is slightly flawed though because if you are a PR then you can only be admitted to Canada as a PR, not as a visitor, so you still have to prove to immigration canada you are a Permanent Resident. The visa in your passport is not proof of current PR status, just proof you were given a visa to land at one point. Also the piece of landing paper in your passport is not proof. The only simple proof is a PR Card which will allow for easy re entry to Canada once you reach customs and immigration.

If you don't have the PR Card then you have to prove you are a PR and also prove your PR status has not been voided by such actions as remaining outside Canada for more than the allowed time etc. So if you are a new PR then it's impossible to have stayed out too long and 99% of the time you will meet a reasonable agent who will let you in as a PR. If you have been a PR for a while then without a PR Card you may be more hard pressed to prove you have met residency requirements, you may be referred to the immigration desk to explain yourself. Now you might have no problem doing so but it's still a hassle to stand in line for hours waiting.

If you can't prove you are a PR then you have to leave because what they can't do is just admit you as a visitor based on your visa waiver type passport. I believe that technically if they do admit you as a visitor then you are jeapordising your PR status as you cannot be in the country under two different immiration statuses at the same time.

Everytime I have re-entered Canada with the PR card it has resulted in a quick question of where I went and why and then straight through. I think it much easier to do that and have it as a travel document than wonder every time you go to an airport to fly to Canada whether you will be let on the plane and everytime you enter Canada wondering if you will have to spend half an hour debating with an immigration agent as to whether you really are a PR or not based on an old visa and your driving licence or something.

Drew

Re: Guarantor for PR card
 

Wow, that's an old thread you're replying to!

Being in possession of a PR card doesn't prove you have valid PR status though, and it's only your valid PR status that guarantees you entry - you said yourself that things like COPR and cancelled PR visa in your passport aren't proof enough, why would you think the PR card is any different?

Mr B was asked for PR card on a ThomasCook charter, and it's clear their policy is misguided, but I agree, no point trying to argue that with a check-in clerk. If you want to fly with them, either buy a return ticket or have a PR card/travel doc/Canadian passport - those are their rules. Simple. He's not been asked for it by Air Canada, by Skyservice charter, or by AA or United via Chicago...strange that you were.

Nobody's saying travel with the PR card isn't preferable, the point is several forum members insist that you will not be readmitted to Canada or allowed to board Canada-bound scheduled transportation without a card, and that's just not the case for visa-waiver nationals. This is useful to know for landers and leavers who may not have access to a Canadian address for the card to be sent to, or for card-less visa-waiver PRs who need to travel urgently, that's why I keep harping on about it every time I see a post that says "you can't get back to Canada without a PR card" :D

There's a good Wikipedia article on PR cards here - scroll down to "Required to enter Canada" section.