Goodbye to the SIN card
 

No longer being issued as of yesterday. New applicants or those switching over a temporary SIN (beginning with a 9) will just get a paper based letter/printout of the number.

Existing cards obviously remain valid and temporary cards will remain valid until their expiry date.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

They got rid of NI cards ages ago in UK and transferred to print outs (still have mine though)

Must be a cost thing

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

There was an NI card? I'Ve never had one.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

You must be a young 'un then :p

I have one :eek:

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Hah, far from it.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Really? I have an NI card too. Made out of stiff paper (aka cardboard). Do you younger folk have laminate?

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

I had one like yours Novo - young spark has a credit card type one

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

I suspected so. It's back to the future, but, err, backwards.

I fear though that today's youth will put them behind their ears and then they'll get all soggy.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Wow novo, I'm surprised cardboard was around in those days. The things you must have witnessed being invented,

Plastic......
Cardboard........


Paper........



The wheel........









Fire?...........

:lol:

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Yep. The one I have is credit card sized. Says National Insurance Numbercard on it. Issued by "Department of Social Security" which is long gone. It's blue and red with NI number and (nearly) my full name on it.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Yep, I got a card one too, when I turned 16, I still have it in my purse. Memorised the number when I first got it and have never forgotten it.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

I have never been asked for one, don't have one, never had one, never needed one. What do you do with it?

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

You'll never need the card, but when that distant time comes when you want to get your state pension from the UK, you'll need the number.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Well nothing really. All you actually need is the number. Presumably why it was got rid of. I'd guess Canada is getting rid of the SIN card for a similar reason.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

You always have the number though, it's on pay slips and letters from the taxman.

Bloody state pension, it is distant too. I wuz robbed.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

I've got to say nothing more clearly illustrates the difference between Canada and the US than this.

In Canada, they're scrapping the SIN card. If someone starts work for you, you're allowed under privacy laws to "request" (but not demand) that they provide ID so that you confirm who they are. If you have doubts, you can phone up Service Canada on a 800 number, sit there for ages, give them the SIN and they will "verify" it for you, which basically means they match the number to the name. None of which prevents someone from using someone else's number, nor for example could they tell you if the person has lost their PR status.

In the US, they've proposed (and will likely implement) biometric SSN cards, and employers will have a card reader to read the chip on the card, and the card reader will be linked to DHS SAVE in order to establish that the person is in fact authorized to work.

Currently, you have to give an I-9 to the employer and under penalty of perjury punishable by five years in prison, state how and why you are authorized to work and give ID listed on the form to prove it. Employers are also subject to sanction if they fail to collect the information or commit fraud.

In addition, there is the "E-verify" system that employers can sign up to (in a lot of States, have to sign up to) which also is linked to DHS SAVE to determine employment eligibility and the employer types in all the information from the I-9. And - they're linking it into all the DMV databases so the employer can see their ID photo in the system.

Land of the free, home of the brave...

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

The method of administration of work identification numbers differs. Ah! At last I see how there's a great gulf between the way of life in the US and in Canada.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

I'll venture a guess and say there are a larger number of people trying to work in the US illegally vs Canada, so gotta have some sort of secure program in place to ensure only those legally allowed to work are working.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

I have my old cardboard NI card as do I the original grey bi-fold 'National Identity' card from when I was born which has an expiry date on it for when I turned 16.

with Canada on ID, everything is tagged back to your SIN number - from the provincial health card, passport, drivers license, bank accounts & credit cards. Canada has 'big brother' mastered.

In the UK government department, last I found out was that they are still behind the times sharing interpepartment info or database cross checking

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Bingo!

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

I still have my old SIN card but it doesn't have an expiry date.

Didn't know this:

Social Insurance Numbers that begin with the number "9" are issued to temporary residents who are not Canadian citizens or permanent residents (e.g., foreign students, individuals on work visas).


And I didn't know this:

Social Insurance Numbers can be validated through a simple check digit process called the Luhn Algorithm.
046 454 286 <--- A fictitious, but valid SIN
121 212 121 <--- Multiply each top number by the number below it.

So the result of the multiplication is:
086 858 276

Then, add all of the digits together:
0+8+6+8+5+8+2+7+6=50

If the SIN is valid, this number will be evenly divisible by 10

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Had to get a copy of my driving licence recently. DVLA wanted my NI number and passport number as well as my licence number

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

lots of "not immediately obvious" math or formatting tricks like this around.

Ontario driving licence numbers are another with some particular "rules" that allow the casual observer to determine if they're real or not.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Oh come on, in Canada it's so laissez-faire and they almost don't care at all, in the US they're spending billions on it, literally. And in Canada there's some guy at the end of the phone and in the US they're trying to use technology to do it all. Typical Canada v. US contrast.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

I doubt there's that much of a difference. Loads of people working illegally in Canada. The difference is that Canada is more immigrant friendly and in the US there is total paranoia. Obviously if you can GET a work permit there are less people who are going to be illegally present.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

So that's what that payroll software I installed for some client was doing when I was testing it. :lol: I wondered why it rejected some numbers.

But anyway, it doesn't stop ID theft and under privacy law (which varies depending on where you live in Canada) you cannot demand any other ID to go with it. You can only request it.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Now that you know the algorithm you can generate your own valid SINs for whatever you like ;)

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Are there any 'hard' numbers for illegals in Canada vs. the US?

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

The US doesn't need to be immigration friendly.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Why do you think that?

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Seems to be no lack of people willing to deal with the hoops and red tape to go there, so why be friendly and make it easy?

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Wow, that's news to me. None of my kids have SIN numbers but all 3 have passports and had no problem getting provincial health cards in either BC (when we lived there) or Ontario. They all have bank accounts, too. The youngest 2 were too young for driving or credit cards when we left and the oldest is resident in the US, so he doesn't have those things either.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

BC MSP has never asked for my SIN # in regards to my health card, and looking at the current application they are still not asking for it to apply.

They do however if applying for premium assistance ask for it, as they need it to verify income with Canada Revenue, but not everyone is on premium assistance.

ICBC didn't ask for my SIN either when getting a drivers license.

However the health card and drivers licence is now linked as they are combing drivers licence/ID with the health number to eliminate the separate health card.

Only 1 provincial agency has ever asked for my SIN and that was income assistance, again to verify information with CRA.

My bank has never been provided my SIN, its not required for accounts where you don't earn any income, and certainly not required to apply for and get credit.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Their system doesn't appear to be any better, or worse, than the Canadian one.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Well in the US they have a figure of 11.7 million, which is based on comparing US census data with how many aliens are lawfully present, one minus the other gives you 11.7 million, although the census data is an estimate as well.

You could use the same method in Canada but I can't find any indication of anyone who has. The estimates floating around appear to be based on asylum seekers who weren't deported, which is estimated at 125,000 but it's got to be a lot more than that, e.g. visitors who overstayed and never claimed asylum, etc.

So what you would need to do is go into the Canadian census figures, minus off citizens, then come up with an estimate of people legally in Canada but not yet citizens by looking through the CIC statistics, minus off that total as well and the result would be a rough estimate of people unlawfully present.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

It's much worse than the Canadian one, because of the quotas. I can think of any number of ways in which it is worse, for example if you go in on a work permit your spouse doesn't get work authorization in H-1B or TN-1. In Canada they do in the equivalent categories.

The most telling statistic is how many people are granted LPR status, in the US each year it is around a million, in Canada it is around 220,000, but the US has nine times the population.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Not so. Not everything. Not Healthcare, not drivers license, credit cards, banks. You do not have to give them your SIN

Copied from Service Canada. More info on this link.
http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/a...p/annex2.shtml
The most common uses of your Social Insurance Number (SIN) are for:

your employer
your income tax information
financial institutions from which you earn interest or income (for example, banks, credit unions, trust companies)
Canada Pension Plan (CPP) or Régie des rentes du Québec (RRQ) benefits
Employment Insurance (EI) program benefits
Canada Education Savings Grants (CESG) and Registered Education Savings Plans (RESP)
Child Tax Benefit
Canada Student Loans
Goods and Services Tax (GST) / Harmonized Sales Tax (HST) claims
Social assistance benefits
Veterans benefits and programs
Workers Compensation benefits
child support payments.
For a complete listing and brief description of the federal legislation and programs which are specifically permitted to use the SIN.

Re: Goodbye to the SIN card
 

Don't pretty much all Canadian immigration streams have quotas (besides family class)

Or am I misunderstanding what you mean?