stevethompson

My employers have offered me a job in their Canadian offices. I have been quite excited about the move to Canada - new country, new opportunities, all that kind of stuff.

However, as the time for the move approaches I've been looking at the financial implications. And I'm beginning to get worried because we don't live like royalty here and the maths shows that we won't even acheive pauper status in Ontario.

If I take my Canadian Salary and divide it by my UK Salary, I get 1.99. If I take my Canadian Salary after tax and divide it by my UK Salary after tax, I get 1.94 - so already I'm paying more tax, so "effectively" that's a pay cut.

My grandparents have written in to their will that I should get their house when they die. Fortunately, they're still going strong. Unfortunately, I've never bought a house because of this - I've always rented. So I'll have to find somewhere to rent. Comparing where I live now with where I'm going, the cheapest rent I can find is 4.78 times more than what I'm paying now.

Comparing the new price of the car I have now with the same spec vehicle from the local dealer where I'm going, 3.21.

Comparing the prices of the things I need to buy when I get there (fridge, tv and so on because my UK ones won't work) I got as much as 6.5 for some of the white goods.

I admit I haven't compared things like heating costs and taxes and so on (noting that the UK prices I used for the sums I did above included VAT where applicable, Canadian prices don't include sales tax) and I know some things are cheaper like fuel. But it strikes me that I'm going to be worse off if I move to Canada. Everything is more than the 1.94 times more that my salary increases.

I searched the forums and found postings on here about the costs of boxes of cereals and so on and they do seem to confirm this finding. I also noticed that posts about the "cost of living" seem to avoid actually answering the question. Excluding the obvious things like houses, is Canada really more expensive? Or do I make savings in other places that I'm not seeing?

vegasrockstar

And don't forget - you are likely to get only 0.5 of your UK holiday allowance.

If you have done your homework (which you obviously have) and it doesn't work out financially then, in my humble opinion, you have two options.

1. Speak to your employer about these concerns and negotiate a higher Canadian salary.

2. Stay where you are. If you still fancy Canada you can look for a job that pays enough for you to live comfortably (this may also involve moving to a cheaper part of Canada).

Beebop

Are you an in accounting?

Good way to do it....

Eating out is cheaper, some food is cheaper, other stuff is more expensive. I think the thing that would make more difference for you are the big ticket items like your rent going up so much.....

I'm not sure lots of little savings would make up for that....I think the advice to ask about a raise is good.

The TWs

Maybe rather comparing everything on a percentage basis you should look at what your monthly salary will be and then look at the posts where people have broken down their monthly costs. This will give you a better, real idea of what it will cost you. Comparing UK to Canada doesn't really give a good overall idea of the reality of living somewhere.

Atlantic Xpat

I agree.

The biggest financial issue all new immigrants have IMHO is the period of time they spend converting everything back to GBP to assess the value/cost of stuff. You need to get your head around what you will be making in Canada and what the cost of living (rent/mortgage, insurance, utilities, cars, food etc) are. Then compare that with your situation in the UK and make the judgement call from there. It's also not a decision purely on financials - wanting to move here, to try it out has to play a part. How much of a financial hit, if any, you are prepared to take to make it work is down to you.

I'm sure you've done your maths but I struggle to follow some of your ratios. No matter, since you are moving with the same employer you should be able to get a fair idea of the Canadian salary for your job. Perhaps they could put you in touch with a local employee who can give you an idea of how they live on x dollars. At the very least you could enquire of someone on here what is a going rate for your job which should help out.

Best of luck.
AX

stevethompson

That's not what I'm doing. I've used ratios to avoid questions of exchange rates. As an example, here's the rent.

UK Rent as a percentage of take home salary (monthly) 28%
Canadian Rent (assuming identical property), same calculation 54%

As I explained in my original post, my salary works out to 1.94 times more. So if I was taking home £1000 per month in the UK, I'm taking home $1940. However, if my rent in the UK was £250 per month, it's now $1047.

Everything I checked other than petrol and houses (to buy, not rent) was more than 1.94. Lets say, just to make this shorter, I'm addicted to milk. Quick bit of maths shows that with my remaining salary from the figures above in the UK I can buy 1,530 litres of milk. Taking in to account the price difference and the remaining salary in Canada, I can only buy 920 Litres.


That's my point. I shouldn't have to take a financial hit - it's the same employer and it's not like I'm being demoted. I want to move to Canada, been there a number of times, love it. But I'm not going to love it for long if I have to sacrifice a TV for food and a washing machine for my son to have his own bedroom.

Cookie

Where are you going to be living - the GTA? You might have to consider what most others have to do and live futher out and commute.

You'll maybe have to wean yourself off all that milk too. You must be a number thumper, nobody calculates out how much milk they drink or do they

AX has some good advice. Get in touch with someone in the Canadian office to help you out regards costs etc.

Final thought - Renting long term is dead money. I'd watch out if you are relying on an inheritance. What if your grandparents land up paying for long term care - house would have to be sold and nearly all the money will be gone

Novocastrian

Yes, but in Canada you'd have enough space to keep your own cow.

stevethompson

The area I'm going to when you look at it on Google Maps is about 5km wide, 10km long and surrounded by fields. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...,0.659866&z=11



Not by career. I have maths degrees but I work in IT.

I know. I want to buy but I'd need to save a deposit. I have savings but not mortgage-deposit sized savings. If I'm spending more than 50% of my take home salary on rent, saving a deposit will take a long time. The reason I mentioned that (which I didn't make clear, apologies) wasn't for the inheritence but for the lack of a property to sell here to have funds to buy a property there.

Helen Parnell

I really don't understand your Math. Are you going to get paid $1.94 per hour when you get here....... that is actually illegal and below any minimum wage.


If you are moving here to a job, I am going to assume it is going to be a reasonable job, and so the wage normally reflects that, considering the company are offering it to you rather than a current resident. You do not say where you are moving to, but rental properties vary enormously, from Nova Scotia or Alberta.

From my experience most people do have a lot of expense when they move here (infact I think there was a thread recently where someone quoted $35,000) but once you are established, brought all your cars and goods, worked a while and may have got a pay increase, people can get back to the level they were at within a couple of years. The lifestyle is often why people emigrate, less crime, clean air, way of life, not just for the money.

Canuck Fan

Have to ask...is this a permanent move or a secondment of some kind, i.e contract for a few years? if it is a more temp posting so to speak, I was under the impression that you continue to receive salary in sterling until you decide to stay and go perm and then it's in the local currency.
...just a thought.

I realise making equal amounts of money is important, but the fact that you're being given a once in a lifetime opportunity is a huge plus, if you don't own you're own house then life is a lot simpler, and lets face it at the end of the day you can always move back to the UK.

Sean Boxer

Do cows drink milk?

Cookie

Liked the Google pic. Nice green land nearby.

Yes, equity would certainly make the move easier. It's a tricky one. I would still find out about costs from employees in Canada about day to day living. You mentioned a son. Do you have a partner? Would she be working at all? You can apply for an open WP for her at the same time your paperwork is being done. That way you could factor in even a part-time wage there.

stevethompson

No, I just don't want to share my salary details with strangers.

That's what I thought.

It's at the side of my postings. Waterloo, ON.


I don't agree. Maybe I'm coming at this move the wrong way, but I don't see how people can want to move a famly of four from a three bedroom house to a one bedroom flat because the air is cleaner. I've seen the smog warnings - it's not that much better.

Here's another way of looking at it, just to try and clarify it.

I have a sum of money available to me each month. Pounds, Dollars, Dinari - doesn't matter. It's a sum. I have 100% of that sum.

At the moment - rough numbers in the most part - my outgoings as a percentage of that lump sum.

Current UK Expenses - rent: 25%, council tax 3%, utility bills 5%, food 20%.

I have spent 53% of my salary on the basics - somewhere to live, food & fuel.

As stated, my Canadian rent is 54% of my salary. So I've already spend more on just the "somewhere to live" part. Then I spend 25% on food, 10% on fuel. That's 89% of my salary gone just to have the same things as I have in the UK.

This isn't a question about how well I'm being paid. This is a question about how expensive Canada really is. I have no problem with the expense of moving - it's the cost of living I'm not happy with.

ezvanetree

I can't add anything to whether you are going to be better off or not, but wanted to add my two cents on the renting comments:

Renting is not always dead money--one can often be better off renting when real estate markets are hot and prices to buy are high, as economists often point out. You can usually rent a better house in an area closer to the city core than you can buy when prices are high. Buying can be more expensive than renting, especially in the short term, with taxes, insurance, loss of opportunity with the money you use for a deposit, estate agents' fees when you sell, etc etc.

Also, don't worry about buying a washing machine and fridge if you rent--these will usually be supplied.