Glaswegian

Since we aren't moving house, we are looking into installing an up to date HVAC system (Heating, Ventilation & Air Conditioing) system.

Lennox is the big name in furnaces ... anyone got experience of any other brands?

We currently have a 120,000 BTU 20 year old furnace in a 2,000 sq ft home ... any idea if that's big enough? I've seen barbecues with higher BTU ratings.

Anyone got any experience of two stage furnaces ... one where the fan is on all the time so you don't get cold spots?

What about aircon - any clues to what the running cost will be? We're in Alberta, we don't expect the aircon to be in use for more than a few weeks a year.

Purley

I just got quotes for a new furnace. One was a Tempstar and they are supposed to be better than Lennox. The other one is an Armstrong. I was quoted $2,300 plus taxes - both quotes were the same. I know the Armstrong is 100,000 BTU because it says so on the quote. This is for a mid-efficiency furnace. I have a 4-level split and in the winter its really cold on the top floor - apparently because the heat has to go from the furnace at the back of the house in the basement - along duct work to the front of the house on the top floor. Both people who quoted said that a two-stage furnace would be good for me because it keeps the air flowing and we would get more even heat in the upstairs rooms.

The first guy who quoted on the Tempstar also has a 4-level split and he said he saved $862 the first year. I am assuming that he compared the two year's bills and that the price of heating didn't go up. My son has an old house - 1918 I think, and he will apparently save more because their old furnace was so inefficient.

In Saskatchewan there is some kind of an Energuide program where you can get someone to inspect your house and give it a rating and suggest improvements and you get a rebate depending on how many energy improvements you make. They come back and do a new rating and the rebate is dependent on the difference between the two ratings. Probably Alberta has a similar program.

Glaswegian

There's something similar here too ... thanks for the info.

iaink

Actually, with new furnaces fewer BTU is better, as long as you have enough to heat the space. If you have too many BTU you are basically burning money. We listened to what the guys from a few local HVAC companies had to say about space and BTU requirements, and went with the company we trusted from previous dealings and word of mouth recomendations.

What fuel are you thinking of using? I would have gone with natural gas if it was an option, but we are not near a service, so chose oil over electric, and also replaced the electric water heater with the oil one at the same time.

As far as actual BTUs go, with oil furnaces its a function of the nozzle size too, so the furnace may be rated at 120k BTU on the outside, but it may only be operating at 90k BTU if the tech put a different nozzle in.

I just bought an "Olsen", brand is not as important as efficiency though, but of course you want to be able to get spare parts still in 20 years, so a well established company is a good thing in that respect. No oil furnace can be really efficient for various reasons, mid 80s is good, with gas you can get higher efficiencies.

I had a link about furnaces and things form when I was looking into it...was very informative.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/publications/...l_Section4.cfm


Never really figured out our aircon running costs, we barely had it on this year!

Have you considered a heat pump? they are very efficient, and do both heat and cooling, not sure if its viable in AB.

Glaswegian

We're in the SW of the city, so natural gas isn't a problem ... we wouldn't have anywhere to put an oil tank.

That's where they drill a big hole in the ground? Don't know if we're staying here long enough to justify it - ie. in this house, not Canada, we aren't going back to the UK before anybody asks. We were on the edge of Calgary when we bought the house and we could see green fields from the main road ... now we're starting to feel a bit inner city.

We're looking at interim measures to increase the comfort level of a 20 year old house until we decide where we're settling ... the lake still beckons.

Thanks for the info ... I know Avi build homes with a 98% efficiency furnace ... I think the best Lennox can do is either 94% or 96%.

iaink

Might be a selling point if it works and is cheeper, who knows. Typically they bury a serpentine line around you yard, kind of like the heat exchanger on your fridge, but much larger scale. The idea is you run the pump compressor one way, and it sucks heat from the ground and transfers it to your house, you run it the other way and it takes heat from the house and transfers it to the ground. Not sure if after 6 months of winter there will be enough heat left in the ground to heat the house, so may not be viable in that climate.

Some folks here who have wells with high flow rates use a heat pump with the exchanger in the well, the heat transfer to a liquid is better, and of course the flow means there is always capacity to heat or cool. Its not very common though. Big thing is you are not burning fuel for heat, just running the fan and compressor pump.

Glaswegian

Six months??

If we're lucky .... usually more like 7 or 8 .... the spring bulbs here don't usually show up until June. We don't get the last of our snow until the May long weekend or the first week of June.

We're more likely to go for solar panels ... one of the things I like in Okotoks is that most of the municipal buildings use solar panels to augment traditional heating.

NessieOggy

Hi Glaswegian!

If you haven't already, check out your local gas company to see if they offer any rebates. In BC, Terasen Gas offers rebates as incentive to upgrade to a more efficient furnace. Might save you some cash!!

Cheers

Oggy

Glaswegian

Thanks ... we're starting to work our way through the "process".

Rhodes

Did I read the information in the link correctly? It seems to say that if you have a high eficiency furnace, you can't have a shower because the house would be too damp. Would air conditioning take care of that?

Glaswegian

You wouldn't have aircon on at the same time as your heating??
It mentions an HRV .... it's some sort of heat exchanger.

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/burema...bhose_ce09.cfm

Condensation usually isn't a problem in Calgary unless you're running a grow op ...

iaink

What its saying is that an energy efficient home has less fresh air coming in from the outside, so any moisture you add from cooking, showering etc will not be dililuted down, and could condense (once the air is saturated). In practice most homes have extraction fans in the bathroom and kitchen anyway to boost airflow when you need it. You cant have the heat and the AC on at the same time with built in systems (eg central air) its either one or the other. If you had a window AC unit, AC would probably reduce condensation faster, but just setting it to fan would work like an extraction fan anyway, so no point in providing cool air on top of that that you need to heat up. But you should have taken it out for the winter anyway if you want it to survive a few years.

In practice in the canadian winter you are more likely to be trying to add humidity to your house air than remove it, and any temporary condensation from showers etc will quickly evaporate because the air coming in is likely to be pretty dry.

Building code here does requires mildew resistant drywall etc in bathrooms though because of the short term condensation issue.

Iain
PS As Glaswegian mentioned, some homes use attic air exchangers that use a heat exchanger to take the remaining heat out of air being forced outside to preheat athe cold air coming in the other way. This way you can have more fresh air moving around, without having to heat it. Still have to pay something to keep the exchanger going though.

Also dont confuse the condensation in the house with the condensation of the gases from the burning process as they go up the chimney. That kind of condensation will cause big problems for the furnace (corrosion from the acids created), and is the reason oil is less efficient, more heat has to be retained in the flue gasses to get them out of the house.

Tiaribbon

Haha! This thread has made me laugh!

We received a call from our caretakers of the house in Canada last night to tell us that our furnace has just blown up! The whole house inside is covered in soot and oil residue! All the brand new furniture, beds, appliances etc. are possibly ruined.

Had the furnace man out first thing this morning and he said it was all down to a birds nest in the chimney. We have been quoted $10,000 for a new furnace...............just what we need!

Glaswegian

Holy crap ... not good news to start the day with, eh?

Was the furnace gold plated or is it a huge house?? Most of the quotes I've had have been around the $4K mark for a natural gas furnace.

Does your insurance cover the house being left empty??

iaink

Oh dear god! You have our sympathy for what its worth! Does the insurance cover the damage?

10k seems expensive for an oil furnace. Maybe in the ballpark for a wood one.

I PMd you.

Commiserations

Iain