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French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Old Dec 14th 2015, 2:55 am
  #31  
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
Again, which Asian language? I acknowledge that speaking tagalog would simplify interviewing nannies but which language would be of immediate commercial value? In which Asian language could a European child educated in BC compete successfully against children to whom the language is native who were educated in English in BC?
My understanding of learning say Mandarin is that if you are not totally fluent in it and their culture then you stand a good chance of insulting them. Plus as you say Canada doesn't subsidize Mandarin unlike French. The pure fact of your brain learning two languages at an early age will make it easier to pick up a third language if wanted and needed.

Riv P.... Because of the way FI is structured, the complex mathematics you refer to will probably be taught in English at least 50% if not more of the time.

Watching my daughter pick up her numbers/alphabet, simple phrases, songs etc in just three months of school, the way she already uses French words appropriately in sentences interchangeably is pretty amazing. If it stops working or she needs help with English or French then we'll get a tutor and/or stop FI.
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Old Dec 14th 2015, 4:03 pm
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by Tirytory View Post
My understanding of learning say Mandarin is that if you are not totally fluent in it and their culture then you stand a good chance of insulting them.
It's easy to say the wrong thing in tonal languages. But this will usually cause people to laugh rather than be insulted and most of the time people are amazed you speak any - at least in my experience. My mandarin was limited to simple shit like 'go to hotel' (and now I've forgotten even that).
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Old Dec 16th 2015, 9:51 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by Tirytory View Post
My understanding of learning say Mandarin is that if you are not totally fluent in it and their culture then you stand a good chance of insulting them. Plus as you say Canada doesn't subsidize Mandarin unlike French. The pure fact of your brain learning two languages at an early age will make it easier to pick up a third language if wanted and needed.

Riv P.... Because of the way FI is structured, the complex mathematics you refer to will probably be taught in English at least 50% if not more of the time.

Watching my daughter pick up her numbers/alphabet, simple phrases, songs etc in just three months of school, the way she already uses French words appropriately in sentences interchangeably is pretty amazing. If it stops working or she needs help with English or French then we'll get a tutor and/or stop FI.
I asked my neighbour's kid this morning (Grade 6) about which language subjects are taught in (she's FI obviously). She said 100% French for everything except English and Music (only music teacher they could get doesn't speak French). I'm sure there are, of course, variations in teaching practice from one school to another. But you have to wonder I think, that if say, maths, has to be taught 50% in English - presumably so it will make sense - whether teaching 100% of it in English would make it even more comprehensible.
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Old Dec 16th 2015, 10:05 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

If it's full FI (from G1) why do some kids have difficulties in high school and revert to English? Understandably, writing a magnificent piece of prose in French rather than native English would be harder, but in every other subject (especially math) wouldn't the child's French ability by that age (eg. G10+) be more than adequate to learn and excel in the subject matter?
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Old Dec 16th 2015, 10:10 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by Oink View Post
You're right in a sense. The brain research seems to suggest that children who grow up in bilingual households benefit but there is little to no evidence that will occur in a language immersion program alone. In fact while many children can manage fairly well, it can be detrimental to some. The children that struggle, often go back into mainstream but do so at a disadvantage to other children and most never really catch up. Point being, FI won't hurt most children, especially those with a lot parental support but there's little evidence other than social capital, that it is advantageous to their development. If it were me, I’d use extra curricula tutoring for a second language rather than put my child in to a specific language program.
What is the disadvantage, and why do they never catch up??
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Old Dec 16th 2015, 10:51 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
What is the disadvantage, and why do they never catch up??
Their written English skills are usually pretty poor, their confidence is shot and plus they were are probably kids who'd struggle somewhat anyway. But as I've said before most children, especially those with reasonablly educated and actively involved parents, will be fine in an FI programme.
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Old Dec 16th 2015, 10:53 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
What is the disadvantage, and why do they never catch up??
Ach. Oink has no direct experience. He's one of those educational theorists who have ravaged the current generation of school kids.
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Old Dec 16th 2015, 11:04 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
Ach. Oink has no direct experience. He's one of those educational theorists who have ravaged the current generation of school kids.


This made my blood boil a bit this week...

'Times tables are not how you teach maths’ - Telegraph
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Old Dec 16th 2015, 11:05 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
Ach. Oink has no direct experience. He's one of those educational theorists who have ravaged the current generation of school kids.
The history of education has never really been about pedagogical methods, we've basically known what to do for 1000s of years. The only variables that have changed are the amount of resources used and access. While obviously inextricably linked, both variables have increased over time. How is that ravaging generations of children?
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Old Dec 17th 2015, 12:45 am
  #40  
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
What is the disadvantage, and why do they never catch up??
I was never in French immersion and don't even know if schools in my time in California did any teaching in a foreign language if your first language is English, but I can say once a student starts to fall behind in a public school, it can be difficult to impossible to catch up, teachers lack the time to spend with individual students, and just move onto the next portion regardless, and so on. Became a domino effect, and a few grades of this, you lose any and all confidence in your abilities which creates more hurdles.

If one is a student who isn't suited to the one size fits all educational system, it's a pretty crummy experience, and not conducive to learning, and you walk away with a very negative view of the system and teachers in it.

And of course you didn't graduate at the same level, and so college is even a larger issue and the whole process starts over again.

If one has not experienced what it's like to not learn at the same speed as expected, it may not be the easiest to understand what it's like, and why some students just never really succeed in the system we have in place.
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Old Dec 17th 2015, 7:35 pm
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

[QUOTE=Oink;11813121]Beware that people here use French immersion programs as a way of avoiding special needs, aboriginal or ESL children, thus spaces are competitive. If they were my children I’d try an enrichment program that focuses on computer science or at the very least one that uses a STEAM curriculum. IMO, modeling and programming literacies are going to be far more valuable than French.[/QUOTE

My Canadian neice was put in French immersion for this very reason. Frasier valley . She did very well academically. But always said when they went to Quebec and France it was of little use as their accent and pronunciation were just not right. Her sister who only did some years in it says the same.
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Old Dec 17th 2015, 7:42 pm
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by jad n rich View Post
My Canadian neice was put in French immersion for this very reason. Frasier valley . She did very well academically. But always said when they went to Quebec and France it was of little use as their accent and pronunciation were just not right. Her sister who only did some years in it says the same.
Little use in both Quebec and France, that's going some. Was her teacher from Nova Scotia?
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Old Dec 17th 2015, 7:47 pm
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

[QUOTE=jad n rich;11816459]
Originally Posted by Oink View Post
Beware that people here use French immersion programs as a way of avoiding special needs, aboriginal or ESL children, thus spaces are competitive. If they were my children I’d try an enrichment program that focuses on computer science or at the very least one that uses a STEAM curriculum. IMO, modeling and programming literacies are going to be far more valuable than French.[/QUOTE

My Canadian neice was put in French immersion for this very reason. Frasier valley . She did very well academically. But always said when they went to Quebec and France it was of little use as their accent and pronunciation were just not right. Her sister who only did some years in it says the same.
Accents are different sure, but they're not unintelligible to each other by any means. If you live in France, or Quebec, I can imagine being able to speak French would ne a distinct advantage; especially in France. I think DBD may be onto something if the teacher was from Nova Scotia or similar (Chad or Mali perhaps - I think they speak French too).
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Old Dec 17th 2015, 10:53 pm
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
Little use in both Quebec and France, that's going some. Was her teacher from Nova Scotia?
Likely New Brunswick. But an accent issue isn't a big deal. I barely understand you in real life but more importantly I've embarrassingly discovered that after 40+ years of not living in Newcastle I hardly understand Geordies. (Many of whom are Chinese or Syrians these days).
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Old Dec 18th 2015, 2:31 am
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Default Re: French Immersion School vs. main stream schoo??

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
Likely New Brunswick. But an accent issue isn't a big deal. I barely understand you in real life but more importantly I've embarrassingly discovered that after 40+ years of not living in Newcastle I hardly understand Geordies. (Many of whom are Chinese or Syrians these days).
I thought of NS because the poster who lived in Yarmouth and has since moved to Barrie reported not being able to understand the Acadians in NS at all despite being fluent in French. I suppose it might be the same in NB.

I don't fear not understanding Londoners, I fear them not understanding the Americanised accent I have now. I suppose the sino-Geordies think you foreign too, a mid-Atlantic speaker in the manner of Niles Crane.
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