mogscat

BristolUK

From today's paper:
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mogscat

BristolUK

It almost sounds like....um....er....a modern, every day city doesn't it.

mogscat

Grimnorth

I have tried so hard to stay out of this, people want different things from life and for some Fredericton and NB may give it, but I can’t. Mogscat and family may be about to commit themselves to landing in Fredericton and should hear both sides, before deciding.

I will not bother quoting previous posts as there are so many but advance disclosure, I am from Yorkshire although not really a moaner, I am ex Royal Military Police (7 years) and Sussex police (20 years). I have lived and worked all over the world, including some interesting places like Beirut, Nigeria and most of the rest of Africa and in Eastern Europe. My wife was 25 years as a retail manager, her last job in the UK was as a manager at M&S.

We landed in Fredericton in November 2009, did not know anyone or have jobs lined up. We had spent three holidays a year for six years working our way across the larger provinces until she decided she liked NB. It had everything we wanted in the move, a slower pace of life, smaller communities, very little trouble and good property prices. We had bought our house in Hanwell on a visit in August and so moved straight in. Our neighbours were excellent, and we thought this was it.

I have read comments on here about employment and opportunities and how Fredericton people are friendly and accepting and it is just like any other town, but it is not. Fredericton and New Brunswick are deceptive, and it only really becomes apparent when you have been there a while. I note that this is the only thread Skoura has posted and that he has been there 20 months. There are no contributors being positive about Fredericton with any time there and there is a reason for that; most of us have left. Millie F tried to mention it (6 years in Fredericton) and I am still laughing at her comment on another thread “ people are friendly - but often appalling - it’s hard to converse with people who feel that they are very much superior but are basically thick’.

Fredericton is a government and academic small town that happens to be a provincial capital. That is what made us think we could get jobs when we got there. My wife refers to it now as the “Canadian Truman show”. They are all pleasant on the face of it but, when they do not get what they want or are told no, it is like dealing with a whole town of petulant children. Where my wife works now in Nova Scotia, they call selfish, petulant or bad behavior “doing a New Brunswick”.

What is the killer for NB and Fredericton is nepotism and that no one is accountable. When your relative or friend got you a high paying job for which you are neither qualified nor adept, no matter how many time you muck it up nothing happens. Which is fine in private industry but as most of them are government, millions more in public money gets wasted. Someone has previously mentioned Costco, the Beaverbrook Gallery, Fredericton PD and all the jobs advertised on Wow or other job banks.

My wife first applied for retail jobs, including shop assistant positions:

· She was offered one job asked to attend on Monday to start and bring her sin number. She arrived and was told it was not actually an offer and the position had gone. (later found it went to the managers sisters friend)

· She got a job as manager of the Rocky Mountain Chocolate shop in Regent mall. Corporate in Vancouver had seized it back from the franchisee, a member of a prominent Fredericton family, because she had not paid tax for over a year and CRA were not happy. The previous franchisee, now the director of a large Fredericton charity then went on radio claiming evil corporate from away had taken her business for no reason and that she was local everyone should boycott. Katie was abused by people passing the store as one of the evil people from away.

She got a job at Costco when it opened and became the service manager. Costco owned the land for 8 years but couldn’t build because of local protests about box stores and frogs (don’t ask they had been moved), that’s 260 jobs. As service manager she saw the real side of Fredericton people, some of the highlights:

o Civil servant applying for a credit card refused to provide her income as it was confidential, when she was told it was a credit agreement and she had to, she began shouting and abusing Katie

o During a food recall on a specific product a senior civil servant came in a dumped the entire contents of her freezer on the desk, all over the staff demanding a refund.

o Fredericton has the distinction of having the only person banned by court order from all Costco’s worldwide, because of rude, aggressive and violent behaviour. A professor from UNB, who drove her car at a manger in the car park when she didn’t get what she wanted.

o Seemingly affluent people unable to pay and trying to move money between credit cards, who then shout and, in a few cases, spit when they do not get what they want.

o A local store ran a year of radio adds telling people not to buy from big box stores like Costco, buy from them they are local, and the tag line was “we are real people”. This particular store bought some of its stock from Costco, had it delivered in an unmarked truck and then added a hefty percentage for sale to their loyal customers.

Katie now works at the Dartmouth Costco and has had someone “doing a New Brunswick” once in three years.

Anyone fancy going for a steak at the Keg? One of the largest steakhouse chains throughout Canada. You can’t, when it opened in Fredericton, they had driven it out within 9 months, as the owners were not locals.

My first job as a $9 per hour security officer at the Beaverbrook art Gallery, the security manager was the ex canteen manager from STU. They had just spent $4 million of public money on upgrades including security. We were given an overview of the new security systems. The order had been placed and overseen by the security manager a member of a popular local family again.

• Cameras and alarms had no battery backups and were not linked to the emergency generator. When the power went out, they all went down.
• At the same time all the electronic locks on the external doors popped open, but they did not have manual systems securing them.
• I came in one day and very single security officer on the roster was there. Our crisis manager was rocking on a chair crying because work men had cut through the gallery phone lines. It was a major security breach. We all had cell phones.

I left after three months and started my own company, I was called back by the CEO and asked informally what he should do. I gave him a list which I am happy to say they followed and number one was sack the security manager.

I started my company in March 2010 and now employ 256 people in 19 counties. When we left in 2016, I employed over 20 in NB at two offices, mainly foreign by birth (language skills). When we left NB, we closed both offices and offered the staff either to work from home or move to work from our offices on PEI or in NS. All but two who were finishing advanced degrees moved. Last month one of the two that stayed finished his degree and we went up to move him and his family to NS. His wife grinned all the way.

I did some training work for Fred PD and have friends who work/used to work there. Let me start by saying they are a good force. BUT 38% are related to each other. One Sgt who had a huge pension pot offered to retire if his son was taken on. Have a look on CBC for Zack Coady see how that worked out.

NB power collections department has 30 employees, 28 are related to each other. Senior people in charge of security for the province have no qualifications and got the job because their friend was the then minister of public safety. We spent years having people added to our project teams because they were friends of the project authority. Those same people were then awarded contracts for which they were not qualified, and, in many cases, which had to be done again. In one case an ex fireman friend of a senior civil servant was given a cross border contract, on which he wasted $85,000 before it was taken off him.

We spent years as the only company to have a licence, bond and insurance to operate in NB at thousands of dollars a year, a requirement of public safety. Only to find that the friends of friends had been given contracts without such licences etc. When we raised it with the senior civil servant (project authority was public safety) we were told “he does not jump to the tune of a contractor”. We went to the ombudsman. A deputy minister of public safety sat opposite me and told me to my face he was going to lie. Ombudsman’s findings among many was that the senior civil servant who had been in position since 1999 at Public safety, was unaware people need a licence.

• · Point Lepreau refit, $1.2 billion over spend but cost and time overruns not in the contract. We know the consulting nuclear engineer, he told them not to sign it, went out for lunch cam back at it was signed. Cost to tax payer $1.2 billion.
• · Atcon and road building company owned by friends of the former premiers family and a few MLAs. Given $50 million in cash and $29 million in work guarantee’s by the NB government. Securities taken out of the contract so when it declared bankruptcy the government was the only one to not be a creditor.
• · Coleson Cove coal fired power station, designed and commissioned to be a reserve for Point Lepreau. A by product is gypsum. Government signed a contract with a private company to supply Gypsum, knowing at full capacity it would not provide enough to fill the contract and that it was never supposed to run at full capacity. Result they are paying penalties in the millions to the private company with no get out for the government for 25 years as they didn’t put one in.
• · Anyone about to flood? Again. Emergency Measures Organisation could not afford to pay for flood prevention training this year as they had just spent $500,000 on police type uniforms and vehicles. Same places flood every year costing the tax payers millions.

I could go on, the list is endless but why is this important? NB has a population of just over 770,000 of which about 200,000 are in full time employment. Out of that the province employs over 50,000 in civil service, which is in the main certainly at the upper level hemorrhaging tax payers money in support of friends and family. NB has one of the highest income tax brackets in North America for a reason. Unlike other provinces including NS which has high income tax rates, NB has a very small diversity of core industries not owned by the three largest families in the province, outside mostly service sector jobs. I moved my company out along with at least three of my service providers, none of us will now trade in NB.

We now live in rural NS and love it. People are rough and ready but do not have the time to “do a New Brunswick”. Costs including houses are pretty similar, but it is a better working and therefore living environment. To conclude in winter we do not get the snow you get in winter. So I sent a message to ex pat friend of ours still living in Fredericton. He has been there perhaps 10 years now, feels much as we do but his wife has a senior position at one of the universities and cannot move. I said about the snow “see even God hates New Brunswick” His reply was “New Brunswick proves not that God hates the place but rather that there is NO God, because if there was a God why the FU%K would He have made New Brunswick in the first place?

Just another perspective to consider, if you intend Fredericton and NB to be your long term home.

BristolUK

I thought your name rang a bell. 18 posts altogether so not hard to check posting history and I see this is the fourth different thread you've managed to be anti-Fredericton/NB. Hard to stay out of it?
What makes you think both sides haven't been presented ad infinitum?
and yet that's exactly what you did, quoting Millie

And some NB folk will say the same about NS. PEI too. It's called rivalry like between Bristol and Cardiff and Lancashire and Yorkshire. Alberta and BC. It doesn't make it true.
There are even NBers outside the cities who view Moncton as some sort of sin city like Pottersville - what Bedford Falls would be like if George Bailey had never been born.

It's all quite laughable.

Coming up to 14 years in Moncton in June.

Grimnorth

Yes sorry, I work so only 18 posts, not 6.5 per day. LOL

BristolUK

Most others seem to post from work as activity dies off over the weekend.

mogscat

Coming from a country where a great deal is controlled by a single extended family (you might have heard of them, they go by the name 'Royal') or that bunch of old school chums who are The Government, NB sounds kind of familiar! On the corporate side, there's an interesting extract in today's paper from a book called 'Who Owns England' which describes how much of the country's land is owned by a small number of corporates.
However, I am not saying this to diss Grimnorth's points. I would frankly much rather have a full picture and go in with open eyes. Nepotism is clearly crap, especially where it dominates a whole town or province.
We are trying to decide whether it's worth having the adventure of a few years in Canada while we have the chance. We are not idealistic, we are realistic and that includes budget,
Here in Gloucester people 'do a New Brunswick' on a regular basis and they've probably never even heard of the place. Armed police were called to a neighbouring street here, while we were in Fredericton. We have had to call the police because of neighbours' behaviour several times since living here. A couple of years ago there was a murder at the end of our street. And so it goes on. My daughters face loans of almost £60K to go to uni in the UK. I think a good way I could help them is to give them the opportunity of citizenship in Canada so they can exercise that choice and have that freedom. A nice house, clean air, low crime and cheap/free higher education are all looking good from where I stand but I am open minded and interested in the whole range of people's lived experience.

BristolUK

I've never had anything to do with employment here. Luckily had no need.

Many people have referred to nepotism so I wouldn't dismiss it, except to say that every criticism I've heard of NB has also been stated for other provinces.

Perhaps people are aware of the Irving family having fingers in so many pies. Or maybe it's because about half the population share the same dozen surnames - Steeves, LeBlanc, Cormier, Daigle, Gallant, Melanson, Tingley and believe they're all siblings or cousins when they're not.

skoura

Gosh, what a wonderful and accurate description from Grimnorth, you must really despise this place to make such a rant. May I ask, did you acquire your "facts" from Fox News? And also, it's amazing how every NS post on here is so positive. Is it not a case that if you like it stay, and if not, move? I know I have only been in Fredericton for 20 months (actually 21 now) but please could you let me know when my opinion becomes relevant. I have, as previously stated, also spent 3 years in Vancouver, but you must excuse my outrageous ignorance about Canada.
I must also congratulate you for the amount of jobs that you have created in NS.....if only you had stayed in NB....yawn.

Grimnorth

LMAO I see you already have the makings of a "doing a New Brunswick" bless.

So to answer your questions/comments:

Gosh, what a wonderful and accurate description from Grimnorth, you must really despise this place to make such a rant. May I ask, did you acquire your "facts" from Fox News?

No, personal experience of seven years living there and six years operating a business. We encountered the same issues as a minimum wage security guard, retail worker and manager and business owner. A business which conducted threat, risk and vulnerability assessments on a significant number government buildings and operations as well as provincial critical infrastructure. Provided security, emergency management plans and business continuity models to the same. Provided personal security assessments, planning and protective services to those under serious threat in the Province, including government ministers and employees. Conducted all the after action reviews for adverse weather events 2010-2015. Background screening for all provincial and territorial immigration programs (now except NB), Due diligence for most provincial investment agencies (except now NB) and for overseas investors looking to invest in Canada. Our last assessment of NB was as an amber threat area for overseas investment due to corruption and a lack of accountability in government. As is required our findings were submitted to Standard and Poors and Moodys credit-rating agencies, who approved our report. My sources of information are the use of political and financial analysts who give everything from strategic financial reports to community socio-demographic assessments. Interviews with all levels of government and private industry and site visits and inspections. Where did your facts come from?

And also, it's amazing how every NS post on here is so positive. Is it not a case that if you like it stay, and if not, move?

Try and keep up, we did move. We work with all provincial governments outside NB, including all the other maritime provinces. They all have issues including NS but they are no where near as bad as those in NB. In your posts you mention the alternatives to living in Fredericton (NB) as BC or Alberta but NS has a much broader employment base and diversity of industries than NB and is roughly the same cost of living, including house prices. People reading these threads in BE may wish to know that.

I know I have only been in Fredericton for 20 months (actually 21 now) but please could you let me know when my opinion becomes relevant. I have, as previously stated, also spent 3 years in Vancouver, but you must excuse my outrageous ignorance about Canada.

You gave your opinion and I gave mine and they differ. Both MillieF and myself tried to tell you that our opinion of Fredericton was similar to yours for our first few years but changed the longer we lived there. Our opinions are formed from knowledge and experience and can change dramatically from a first impression to a subsequent one. A probationary constable with 21 months in has a different view of the job than a seven year or twenty year officer. People are reading the threads on BE in the hope of gaining a picture of somewhere or something to inform what may be one of the largest decisions of their lives. We know we all made it. I for one wish someone had given me another perspective of Fredericton before we settled there. Many people considering moving will read your post about an abundance of employment and Fredericton being central to most things and maker their decision on that. When they move many do so with limited savings and will need a job which pays enough to support them quickly. We are from an environment of competence or qualification based assessments for employment not who you went to school with when you were six. Once in Fredericton they will find that the hundreds of jobs are low paying entry level or zero hour contract. There are local restrictions on certain jobs such as bilingualism and my favorite I came across a lot, "yes you are very experienced but what Canadian experience do you have?" Which is code for my cousin or friend wants a job. They are then in Fredericton unable to get a decent job, savings running out and no public transport links to the other employment centers of Saint John and Moncton. It is up to them if they think our differing opinions are valid, I am happy with that.

I must also congratulate you for the amount of jobs that you have created in NS.....if only you had stayed in NB....yawn.

Thank you I am very proud of what we achieved, oh sorry you were being sarcastic. If you actually read the post you would see that I first incorporated in NB and those employees worked in NB. We already had offices in NS, PEI and Manitoba but as the head office all our worldwide revenue was recorded in NB. So not only did NB lose those positions and any future ones but also our tax revenue. NB has serious issues which are blatant and not being addressed. People reading BE should have the whole picture not just yours.
Happy Easter

scrubbedexpat133

I picked out a few things from your extensive post that do actually really ring true for me and my time in NB. I also had a good laugh at Mille F's comment on the other thread as it is accurate imho

The comment about being in the Truman show really made me smile as I had thought of that many times. One of the many 'is it me?' moments.

There are some upsides to NB but the people and the employment side of things is really not. I would not return to NB for all the tea in China but if it is your (in the generic) cup of tea then good luck to you and I am pleased that you are happy there.

mogscat

Crikey! Over 6,000 views. Who'd have thought a little expat chat about Fredericton could be so interesting..? Or perhaps there's an imminent immigrant influx?

I have been looking through numbers on immigrants and employment from Stats Can and NB's Dept of Postsec Ed, Training and Labour to try to see for myself what the employment prospects really are in NB and other areas. Unfortunately I cannot find anything specific enough to really drill down but on the face of it the income and employment rate gaps between immigrants and locals are smaller than in several other provinces which might suggest any number of things: perhaps there is not that much discrimination between those two categories of people...or perhaps there is. I don't know.

Large local employer + smallish local population = lots of friends and family work in same organisation, often. I can think of loads of examples. Port Talbot steel comes to mind. On that note, I agree with Bristol that having the same surname can make it look like people are related when they're not: back to my south Wales roots again where we all share the same half a dozen surnames but not the same fathers (at least, not according to our mothers anyway... ;-) )

Please do not worry on my behalf, Grimnorth. We are reviewing a number of destinations and taking into account all sorts of information. In the end we may well have to decide based on tedious things like public transport. Our quick trip to Fredericton did show us great surroundings for anyone who appreciates a fantastically beautiful, clean environment with easy access to art and nature. When people are positive and loving life, I don't knock it.