mogscat

Photo I took of Gloucester Docks at Christmas! It's great now. (Rest of Gloucester taking a long time to catch up though!)

mogscat

These posts are really useful. At raindropsandroses' suggestion I've taken a look at JSmith's thread and a few others. So there's a really wide range of views then!

People comment on better job prospects in major cities and other provinces. We are not in corporate jobs. I have been in the public sector - first public relations then adult and further education - for most of my career. Other half used to be in a blue chip corporate but escaped a few years back - he's into IT, electronics R&D and audio. So the issues of climbing corporate ladder might not be so significant for us. I don't think we'll be heading up any global megacorp in Toronto/Vancouver/Calgary as an alternative choice any time soon. That said, we both need to have jobs and would rather not be at entry level indefinitely.

What we are looking for is that subjective 'better quality of life'. This would include having an older property (partner renovates Edwardian properties, did a few in Redland and Westbury Park areas of Bristol for example) large enough for family and friends to stay, nice places to walk dog without it being in danger of being eaten by neighbourhood huskies/pitbulls etc.,(as in Gloucester and other UK areas we can afford...) access to skiing (partner not me), blue skies and sunshine rather than grey clouds. We don't mind cold but the Calgary (our other option) low temps are still a bit worrying. Heavy traffic and crowds are out. We'd prefer to be in a city where people have a good level of education.
We can both speak French so are OK with that. Partner is originally from Montreal and I have lived in France.

Whilst we are not massively outgoing, it would be nice to think the neighbours, colleagues etc. would speak to us and not eye us like we've just disembarked from a space craft. I have had that experience living in a south Wales village. Particularly discombobulating as I am actually Welsh!! Fredericton looks like it has a fair number of immigrants and other incomers, so I would hope it is a reasonably accepting place but tell me if that's overly optimistic...

We are bringing our 16 year old daughter so opportunities for young people, at least until she can make her own choice of where to live, are crucial. She hate crowds so a quieter city is better. However she finds her current school, in a small rural town locally, inward looking (for example she's the only vegetarian) so we'd want somewhere a bit more progressive. She likes art and I notice Fredericton positions itself as a centre for artists. We all love live music and enjoy creative places with a buzz.

So Fredericton people do you think we'd find it a good fit, or not? We're only looking at the city, smaller places are out because I no longer drive so I need everything walkable/transitable.

skoura

Well, after reading some replies on here, I can only deduce that some people may be like my relatives from Yorkshire...….they`re not happy unless they`re moaning.....
My original post was to highlight that the Maritimes aren`t all doom+gloom. When I moved to Fredericton with my family, lots of people in Vancouver said, `why on earth do you want to move there`? I asked them if they had been, and none of them had. It reminded me of my first motorcycle ride from England to the Sahara, I asked lots of motorcycling `experts` what the best bike would be for the trip, and of course I was asking people that had never done it!
In my opinion, the cost of living in the western world all works out the same in the end, and the only significant difference is your mortgage. A previous poster says that this is a red herring, but I honestly don`t think it is. I have previously lived in Vancouver 3+years and so I am in a good position to compare. In Fredericton your food bill may be 5-10% higher than Vancouver as might be your cost for electric, however, Fredericton petrol prices are 25% cheaper than Vancouver, and our car insurance was 80% cheaper! In BC, car insurance is the monopoly of the provincial government, NB is open to competition. In BC you currently pay a monthly medical cover charge, NB is free. Even the small things add-up. In Vancouver you will easily pay $5 per hour parking anywhere downtown or Stanley Park, in Fredericton it`s $1-2PH and free on weekends. I know by comparing Vancouver to Fredericton is like apples + oranges, but living here is definitely more affordable. The only important decision to make is, where do you want to live (?), because you can make it wherever you live. Of course Fredericton is a lot colder than Vancouver in the winter and heating bills will of course be higher here, but believe me, don`t move somewhere because you think all of your bills will be cheaper, if that`s your motivation then don`t move!
I would also like to question why raindropsandroses says that the services aren`t as good? what is your evidence of this? I can only talk about Fredericton, but I have never experienced better service from a local authority anywhere. My wife gave birth to our daughter here and the pre+post natal care was outstanding, the hospital for a small city is superb. We live within the city limits and our cul-de-sac is ploughed when necessary promptly. Our garbage and recycling is collected weekly and the streets are kept spotless. I was a police officer in the UK for 16 years in Southampton. Soton has a city population of 250k and on nights we would have 10-15 police officers from mid-night to 7am. Fredericton has a city pop. of 60k and on nights they have 12 police officers on duty. This isn`t a comparison of what my perceptions of crime are, it just highlights that the services here are excellent and surpass my expectations.
For claphamer…...unfortunately, growing up in Bournemouth we were a little deprived of Union, so although I`m a big 6 nations fan, I`m a little ignorant with club rugby!
Whenever you move to a new place, no matter if that is abroad or in your home country, making friends is always going to be a challenge, close friends anyway. Canadians are broadly very friendly in my experience, but there`s no denying that UK and Canadian senses of humour are miles apart. I lived in London UK for a while and that was the same with circle of friends. Most people have their friendship network by the time they are 25, so it`s always going to be difficult to break into a new circle. My wife and I are lucky that we bought a house with great neighbours who we socialise with and one is Dutch so he gets sarcasm
I never had any intention to say that Fredericton is better than...…??????????? I was just highlighting that it is a fantastic place to live and work and the standard of living is excellent, but if you want big city living then it`s not for you.
Just to comment on accessibility to other destinations. My wife and I have flown from Fredericton Airport (YFC) 3 times and my parents have flown into YFC 4 times. We have flown to Vancouver, London UK and Casablanca via YFC. I checked the prices from YFC to those destinations and then checked prices to fly direct from YYZ + YUL and the differences was negligible. If you book a long-haul flight from YFC and making the connection from YYZ or YUL, they (airlines) basically give you the YFC leg for free.
At the end of the day, you have to make your mind-up yourself when looking to make these moves.

skoura

Hi Mogscat, to answer your question about inclusiveness, I can say first hand that for a small city, Fredericton is very open and welcoming. My wife is a muslim and wears a head-scarf and has never had any problems whatsoever. This was a concern of mine when we arrived and I visited the Multi-cultural Society of Fredericton and they said to me in the past 7 years they had not received one report of any ethnic hate crime. I`m the biggest atheist on the planet and I haven`t had any problems either
Fredericton is very much an `artsy` place, very arts + crafts movement too, but it also has a very good mix of modern design as well. Look at Ignite Fredericton - www.ignitefredericton.com/awards
The web page will show you that this is not some back-water in the Maritimes, and neither it is the next megalopolis, but it's a great mix and a wonderful place to live. Without wanting to slate attitudes in Vancouver, there's a lot of ignorance towards NB, and some justified but lots that isn't. NB suffers from poor marketing and that has a knock-on effect in peoples attitudes. If you drive outside Fredericton you will see pockets of deprivation and poverty, and if you drive in East Hastings in Vancouver you will see pockets of deprivation and poverty, it's nothing new and it wont go away anytime soon, that's life.

MillieF

skoura

Hi MillieF, I do agree that there are lies, damn lies and statistics, but it doesn`t take away the fact that there is more to Canada than just the major cities, and by-the-way Winchester city proper is 60,000...… Fredericton has a city population estimate from 2018 of 62,000 and a greater population of 110,000. But either way, it's a small place. Yes, there is a lot of snow in this town, but the ONLY place in Canada without it in winter to the same degree is Vancouver and the Lower Mainland (I think). Urbanisation has been happening for centuries, and there`s no denying that NB probably suffers from not having a major conurbation like almost all other province`s. People will always moan about paying higher taxes, but the UK VAT is 20% and here it`s 15%, plus look at Child Benefit here compared to England, as I said before, wherever you live in the Western world your bills all add-up to about the same, and most people spend what they earn.
You say that Fredericton has an elderly population in financial disaster, If you go to Vancouver people are saying the same, if you go to Bournemouth people are saying the same, this is glass-half-empty, lots of young people will say that they can`t afford Uni tuition (half the price at UNB compared to the UK) and they will say that the elderly population have bought houses that they now can`t afford, it`s the same arguments. Life`s what you make it at the end of the day. I didn`t leave the UK because I was disillusioned, I could live in Vancouver with my family which I am very close to, but at the end of the day, I have my own family here and we very much enjoy it.
On a final note, according to a report 2 weeks ago (yeah, another lies, damn lies and statistics) the world population is predicted to drastically fall from around 2050-2100 due to the slowing down of birth rates in developing countries, which will have a knock-on effect and cause the world pop. to fall from its current level of 7bn, to nearer 3.5 bn, which in turn will have a huge effect on the human impact of climate change.....by which time I will be 6feet under

BristolUK

Anything that stops City getting there.

I must admit I do find this a bit like finding $50 and losing $20.
Having bought my house (and a rental property) with no mortgage I admit to knowing next to nothing about mortgage payments here - whereas I did have one in the UK where the equity is what paid for the two properties here and then some.

But if you can buy a house here for around $100k (and less) and it's still perfectly decent and the same house in similar sized Ajax, (say) costs $400k, what sort of additional salary is needed for the extra $300k so you still have the same money left each month? Unless you can afford the $400k house outright of course.

We've all seem the tables and articles that crop up from time to time showing incomes needed to buy in various places and there are enormous differences.
I mean if you need $50k income to buy a home in one city/province compared to $150k in another city/province, just how many jobs/occupations are there that the salary for your line of work would be three times as high in that other province?
It's very hard to argue with you given your experiences (plus you're a great member ) but I can remember looking at gross incomes and net incomes many a time on the various tax tables for different provinces.

On an income of $100k the tax varies across the provinces by less than $5k. For example in NB you'll keep $69k and in Ontario $72k. How far does that extra $3k a year go in buying that $400k house in Ajax?
Most people in Canada earn under $100k so the differences in net pay are even smaller.

That very much depends on where you are. Certainly the government of NB could learn much from Ontario regarding joined up thinking. But the Presccription DrugPlan - a joint province/blue cross scheme - is possibly second to none unless you qualify for the social/disability assistance programs. And for my city, I think the doctor availability is among the best in the country, although the province rate isn't good. Similarly with unemployment rates; the province is high but the city is in line with the nation.

I think the OP makes that point when he said "If you look at Fredericton exclusive of NB then you will find a city that is thriving in all sectors. Don't take my word for it, look at Ignite Fredericton..." and I think it's likely true of most cities around these parts compared to the province.

I'm about to complete 14 years in June. I don't like the 'backward' attitudes of some but it seems that exists all over Canada.

I can't deny the snow is a big issue and a couple of years ago, when I discovered that parts between Kingston and Toronto had much less, I was keen on the idea of moving. Of course affording it was unlikely - at least until someone died and left me money
But now that I pay a guy with a truck to plough the drive it's not really an issue and now I look at it as we get a couple of extra storms more than other places or their snowstorms are 15cm and ours are 20cm and with the City taking care of it, the effect of the extra snow isn't so great.

When I see dbd33's weather reports, he gets it far worse than we do.

We have an excellent bus service here. It doesn't always suit shift workers at the industrial parks, but where does?

raindropsandroses

I'm sure the typing around toast/wine/small child lend me such an air of incoherence I'm surprised any one can respond to my posts at all!

Using our example, salary in BC or Alberta is five times higher for my husband than here in the maritimes. That's not an unusual difference higher, in my former profession salaries are 6-7x higher.
This is also going off actual job offers received too, not just jobs advertised.

So for a $400 k house in BC/AB you'll be paying around four times as much for mortgage.

Property taxes are less in BC that we pay here (dark mutterings ahoy) and are also leas in AB.

Utility bills, groceries, gas are broadly similar, using sweeping generalizations, but ones I've checked, tested and compared. I'm even boring enough to have several spreadsheets on the subject as I like to analyze potential moves carefully and run the numbers.

So, from your salary you have to pay...

- Mortgage (4x more in BC/AB)
- Utility bills, groceries etc (generally the same)

Say your take home is $2k per month in the maritimes, vs $8k out west, and your mortgage is $500 vs $2000 pcm.
In the maritimes that gives you $1500 pcm to pay the bills and live, after mortgage is taken off, whereas out west it leaves $6000 pcm. Hence why I say mortgage/real estate prices are red herrings when used in that context.

I hope that makes sense, today has been gruelling - more tenant drama - and I'm struggling to keep my eyes open!

Sorry, I should said that the tax difference in AB was sales tax, and 5% vs 15%.

As I always feel, no place is any better or worse than anywhere else, you just have to choose your poison. Nowhere is cat free and has cheese paved streets, you pick the place where it's positives suit you best and its negatives are at least tolerable.

BristolUK

I lived on Redland Road in the 70s

Moncton, not Fredericton...
My stepdaughter is what you would think was the stereotypical vegetarian, although she isn't. Her school had an Amnesty International committee. In the school hall they have a flag representing the country of every student. I tried to count them but there were way too many.
My wife and her two kids are Montreallers and they all like it here. The kids did far better at school here than they were doing back there. Mother in law has joined us and she prefers it too. That might be because men chat her up.

. Oh yes.
And we get a chunk back. It's generous and represents far more than the annual cost the increase from 14% to 15% resulted in.

BristolUK

Yes it does. But I think this is the "BE thing" that I have mentioned before.

You know when someone raises the issue of only two weeks vacation a year, every other post is how someone gets the same as they got in the UK; five or six weeks. It does seem that many people on the forum are sought after. Almost headhunted. Lots of experience or highly qualified folk. It's often how they got through the immigration process after all. They include people whose employers pay their resettlement costs, so keen are they to have them here. There are people who fly around the world for work related stuff. They buy Dysons and $2000 washing machines, go to glamorous places on vacations and whatnot.

I'm trying to write this without sounding envious But you don't need to spend much time on BE to see that it's not representative of Brits nor, especially, Canadians.

Minimum wage and not far above will give you a comfortable life here and it won't in other places. The same is likely true of loads of others between minimums and the top folk. We lived on far less than a single person's minimum wage for years as a family of four.

But I've also looked at salary expectations for jobs across Canada over the years and for most people/ most jobs they don't pay multiple times more than here.
I believe the Premier of BC gets around $200k while the NB rate is $150k



Sorry to hear that. Fancy a job change to BC Premier?

skoura

raindropsandroses, if you have been offered that type of wage difference, the only question can be...….why are you still here????????? I find it very hard to believe that the wage difference is 6-7 times higher across the board. My family have been in Vancouver for 30 years. My sister is a receptionist and earns $25PH, where here you`d probably earn around $17PH for the same type of institution, and my brother works for Van City, and as is the same for most city workers, he is handsomely paid, probably 20% more than the equivalent here. Police officers make 100k here, same as Vancouver.
The average home in Vancouver requires 25 times the average salary, Fredericton requires 5.5 times the average salary.
I would say that there are very many and varied job vacancies in Fredericton at present, from serving at Tim Hortons to Financial Control Manager at Deloitte. Indeed job site currently shows 721 jobs available, and of course in reality it will be half that by the time you take out duplications and expired adverts, still not bad for a diddly place.
I will share one gripe about Fredericton, I only get 8 months a year to ride my old British motorcycles!!!! but then again, skiing in Bournemouth was pretty crap......look at what you have, not what you don't have...….

raindropsandroses

Yes absolutely, it isn't representative of the norm across the board in Canada, but as you say this forum isn't representative, and I wouldn't make the same suggestions as I would if it were a forum of rural NS high school leavers.

A lot of jobs do pay an awful lot more, our former next door neighbour is a heavy duty mechanic, $25/hr here after ten years service, they moved to AB and there its $130/hr.
His family lives in Edmonton, he flies in/out (at employers expense) oilfields and is doing very nicely despite all the oilfield doom and gloom. He would never have commanded that salary in the maritimes, not in a million years.

You do need to weigh your options carefully, but for a lot of people, and I hate to use the term highly skilled, as it devalues others, but for those highly skilled, why would you choose the maritimes when you could be so much better off out west?

We've been dirt poor before, really rock bottom and there isn't a lot I wouldn't do to avoid being back there. Being financially comfortable no small thing to be overlooked.

No thanks, they can keep the Premier job, I'm not patient enough anymore I think!

raindropsandroses

We're in the middle of wrapping up our (well, technically my) business before moving, but my husband's new employer has offered a considerable incentive for us to expediate things, which we are. Though per Bristol's post it makes me cringe, they're paying our relocation and other costs, and my husband was headhunted.

I have never spent $2k on an appliance though, Kijiji all the way

Its not across the board, 6-7 was for my former career. I am a lady of (absolutely no) leisure now and shall be remaining so.
3-4x more? Much more common, but, and I mean no offense, of course it won't be that different for receptionists.

BristolUK

Fair point.

Also fair. Although a less 'dog eat dog' lifestyle might appeal.

I have seen a fair number of posters over the years who find themselves in a position to return to Canada or even move first time like dual citizens for example or people with PR and changed circumstances considering making a go of it. I like to be a counter to the "Yes, you can manage on $100k salary but it will be tight" responses so common here.
I also like to counter the "there are no jobs" claim, wondering who staffs the hospitals, universities, schools, education department, all the government departments, the retail centres, financial sector etc etc

mogscat

BristolUK your viewpoint is really helpful to us, we must be your 'target' audience' as my partner is a dual citizen and I have PR through family class as a result.

I am noticing the 'it will be tight' thing on the forum but tbh it is also very tight in UK on my income. Having two daughters of around higher ed age facing taking out not only tuition fee but maintenance loans as well, and very high housing costs even for a crappy house in a dodgy area (small terrace in Bedminster, sorry, 'Bedmo', for almost £500K, anyone?!), Canada looks very attractive. We are highly skilled I would say...I am in education and if I were not skilled enough I would have been eaten alive by students/parents/Ofsted by now! But skills don't always equal salary, especially in the UK public sector. In Fredericton we can clearly afford to buy a much nicer house than we have here outright. Possibly in Calgary in outlying suburbs. (Looking at up to 400CAD).

We are attracted to the greater social mobility of Canada, higher proportion of educated people, less overcrowding and more space. It looks like we can live in pleasanter surroundings for similar income. Where we currently live there are quite high levels of deprivation, it's dirty and perhaps as a result people can be obnoxious. I don't notice as much feral behaviour wherever I've been in Canada but perhaps I'm not looking in the right(?) places.

I am looking at new career directions so perhaps I should bear heavy engineering in mind so I can move to Alberta/BC instead? I'm guessing small middle aged women are quite under-represented in that line of work?! Or whatever professions Raindrops and her husband are/were formerly in?