dbd33

I don't think this is quite right. It may be expensive to go hipster off gridding; that is, to live as if one were in Dalston while being out in the country, but the people I see living minimally use almost no money. It's true that they own land and that, if it's not inherited, land is hard to come by but after that, it's all work and knowledge, not money. I tried to contrast that way of life with the expensive way we live rurally; horses as toys, not tools, machinery for every task.

This is certainly true though the off grid people tend just to die early rather than relocate. In Ontario people living minimally typically don't qualify for, state funded, healthcare; it's difficult to switch from living an almost cash less life to funding hospital fees.

raindropsandroses

It is expensive to set up an off-grid property, even if you're doing it Amish/Mennonite style, which I assume OP isn't as they mention wanting appliances.

If you are setting up an off-grid property from scratch you still need to build the dwelling, dig the well, find some way of getting the water from the well to the house (by bucket and shank's pony = least expensive option) install some some way of dealing with human waste, find and install some communication method, even if just charging cell phones from a leisure battery, and charging the battery from a generator, find some way to wash yourself and clothes...the list goes on and on.

All these things really add up. Its probably easier to buy an existing off-grid set up and make your own modifications. We veered more towards the Amish style and didn't have appliances save a propane cooker.

Really? I didn't think about the healthcare/pension complications. It wasn't Canada we were off grid in though.
Like that you'd be royally screwed if you became seriously ill and ended up disabled for life, as happened to me not long after moving to Canada.

Siouxie

Watching this might help see some of the potential pitfalls of living totally 'off grid' https://www.justwatch.com/ca/tv-show/homestead-rescue

dbd33

Yes, but surely that's inherent in opting out. It'd be a bit much to live in the woods outside the system for years and then expect access to hospitals and pensions and all of the other taxpayer funded facilities. I wouldn't want to pay tax to support people who could be Chartered Accountants but instead joined the Montana Militia or adopted some other berry eating New Age lifestyle. (I note that the OP isn't proposing to opt out but to operate a commercial enterprise in a rural setting).

raindropsandroses

Oh I couldn't agree more, I was just surprised that Canada, which in my experience is pretty lenient on EI claimers, fraudulent welfare claimers etc (could just be the Maritimes which suffers this though), would take a sensible line on it.

​

scilly

I think a Canadian hospital would treat you if you turned up with a major injury or illness, and then issue you with the bill afterwards ................... unlike what might well happen in the US.

However, having had experience with OH giving himself a horrendous cut on the front of his shin while working to clear a rubbish dump left behind by one of the 2 previous owners of our property, and having had to face how to get him 60 km to the nearest hospital when I don't drive ................... all while having over 30 years of experience in Canada and full medical coverage ............. it was not something I'd wish on anyone without experience.

The only solution we came up with after no vehicle passed the farm gate in 30 minutes, no coverage that far away by the ambulance service, and no cell phone coverage to call for an ambulance anyway ................ we covered the heavily bleeding cut with layers of gauze, strapped it all in place with duct tape (!!!), and he drove all the way into town.

We arrived, he left a trail of blood across the parking lot into Emergency, 2 nurses saw him and rushed us into the treatment centre. The cut was cleaned, sewn up, dressed, and we were sent away with instructions for him to go to the walk-in clinic in town in 4 days time.


Living in the big city, I'd never thought until we bought that cabin that there were actually places where you would not get ambulance or fire service when needed. But that was the situation for anyone who lived more than 40 km from the town.

There was a little community of vacation cabins on the lake about 20 km further east of us down our farm road, built in the 1970s when the only access was by water or fly-in. They had managed to install one fire hydrant fairly close to the collection of about 25-30 cabins ............ but it was up to the people staying there to "man the pumps" if a fire happened.


Mentioning fire ................... wild fires are becoming a big issue in BC and Alberta as the climate becomes drier, made worse by the millions of dead trees in both provinces due to the beetle infestation of some years ago.

BC has broken records for the number and size of wild fires and acreage destryed in each of the last 2 years, and we are being told that this year might be at least on a level with last year. Alberta is similar.

That is making life harder and harder for off-gridders and those wishing to run tourist-operated businesses ............. it's not only the fire but also the smoke which affects huge areas. Exercise is restricted in heavy smoke areas.

raindropsandroses

Good grief Scilly

I had a similar experience when we were living off-grid. My husband had gone into the town to get some stuff and was helping another of our friends out at their house in town, so was going to be out all day. I walked up to the end of the driveway (about 1 km) to check what the snow conditions were like on the roads as I was pondering driving to collect the mail from the post office.

I slipped over and broke my leg - I could see the bone poking out - and managed to dislocate my shoulder at the same time (I am spectacular at injuring myself, it's quite an art). My husband wasn't due back for at another eight hours.

​​​​​The thought crossed my mind that it was highly likely I was going to die out there in the snow. Nobody ever drove the road unless they were visiting us, and we had no cell signal so I couldn't call for help. It was the first time I truly realised just how out of my depth we were at the harsh realities of living off grid.

By some utter miracle one of our "neighbours" (nearest house was 15 km from us) drove up just as I was starting to feel toasty warm again (!) and I woke up late in hospital. Apparently he'd had a sudden strong feeling that we needed help. Thank God he didn't dismiss it as superstitious nonsense.
That was the first and far from the last close call we had. I was used to adverse conditions too, and spent much of my career on remote inhospitable research stations.

Its so frighteningly easy to get into serious trouble off grid, especially if you didn't grow up like it and have the savvy for it, so to speak.

R I C H

You're welcome. The off-grid component adds complexity to the business - you'll need mechanical aptitude in order to avoid $100p/hr repair shop bills, which are inevitable with mechanically unsympathetic members of the public falling off. Brake, clutch and gear levers, handlebars, dented exhaust headers, bent wheel rims etc etc are going to be staple issues so you'll want some parts in stock as a local Yamaha/Honda dealer or whomever is unlikely to be local, and shipping to rural locations can take days and days.

To service and repair, the workshop will need a good power supply to run a compressor, power tools, tyre fitting equipment etc. That'll be challenging power surges to your wind/solar/hydro power source.

A cousin of mine lives off grid in northern Queensland and runs a business there (https://www.australiankitesurfari.com.au/eco) with solar and wind power alone, so it can be done but not without compromises.

Phaedru5

To the OP, you might want to check out 'Wandering Wheels' - link: Mountain Biking - Vacations, Day Tours, Lessons, Heli Biking BC | Wandering Wheels, British Columbia, Canada - a mountain bike vacation company run by a nice guy called Matt in Revelstoke. From what I understand he has a tenure for land around the Revelstoke area so he can be the only one running Mountain Bike operations there, many other popular mountain bike destinations probably have similar operations. He offers heli drop tours, driving uplifts, courses for kids or newcomers to the sport etc and from what I see and hear is very busy and relatively successful. In the last couple of years has started organising trips further afield such as the Yukon, and also abroad with a big annual trip to Nepal.
Perhaps get in touch with Matt and find out how he did it, what areas are still ripe for investment, etc, I think he better than anyone will be able to advise!
Good luck.

scilly

That's worse than ours ....... at least there were 2 of us together all the time, after he'd dripped his way from the dump into the cabin!

It was ironic ............. there was a huge old TV in this dump, along with other furniture, and he was moving something when the TV fell forward. It was one of those VERY old ones with glass tubes/valves, and it was one of those that sliced his leg through his trousers.

A couple had homesteaded there for about 8 years from about 1970, the land was owned by someone else so I don't know whether they had permission or just plain squatted. We gradually put the history together from local people. He worked at the molybdenum mine about 30 km away, on a slightly better gravel road than the farm/logging road we were on, while she took care of the land and the children as they came along, and also trapped along her father's line that he had in the area. She could apparently take a tractor to pieces and put it together again. So, very capable.

We had an old trapper's cabin in a little wooded area on the property, there was a note written on the door that it had been installed on Christmas Eve 1940, temperature -40F. I often wodnered whether it had been her father's!

They had built the cabin in 3 stages as the family grew, by guess and by golly, nothing was square, most everything was either from trees they cut down (sometimes not even de-barked), scrounged or "found" ............ no door or window was the same shape or size. They had 5 children before they eventually moved out. They had a huge generator which was housed in a hut about 200' away from the cabin, and the cabin had been wired for light ...... and obviously for the bloomin' TV. We kept finding bits of electrical wire leading from that hut to the cabin every time we dug anywhere in that area.

Everyone knew them ........... even in the town 60 km away! We heard all kinds of interesting stories.

But you are quite right ............ it is frighteningly easy to get into trouble off grid, and distances are so big in this country.

At least half of BC is actually "not populated" ............ and huge swathes of it has no cell phone coverage, even along the major highways east and north.

But saying BC is huge doesn't mean that there is land for the taking. All of it is Crown land, owned or leased by timber companies, owned by private individuals or companies, or (and most important) is hereditary land of the many First Nations. First Nations even have claims to the Crown land.

To operate any business in the "wild" means getting leases and permissions from possibly several different places, and discussions with the local First Nations could well be the most important part of that.

raindropsandroses

That's truly horrifying, the pain your husband must have been in doesn't bear thinking about.
I don't think you realise just how vulnerable you are until you live off grid or remotely, and remote/off grid in Canada is a world away from the same in say the UK or France.
Even when you think you're prepared (and perhaps even more so then) it is far too easy for things to get out of hand and then spiral.

As you say the distances here are something you can't fathom until you've lived here.

Its fascinating that you managed to discover the history, and a colourful one at that . Our house is very old by Canadian standards and I've loved finding out all about it, not as interesting as your cabin's history but lovely to know nonetheless

Rachh3006

Wow guys, this is such much more of a response than I expected - In a good way!!

There are so many valid points, and a lot of ones we have already considered ie practicalities of off grid living and mechanical/industry knowledge re bikes/machines etc but also a lot of extra points I will be looking into in depth and hopefully contacting a few people to get some more knowledge

Really lovely to her hear everyone's story and experience in off grid and business situations! really useful and entertaining! And yes I can see how relocating, off grid and a business is a bit like throwing ourselves into the deep end, but please be ensured this is the "big dream" so not planning on achieving all 3 in quick succession, after all - life has an uncanny way of throwing curve balls.

HGerchikov

Further to my earlier post and for clarification, we don't live off grid and we are about 20km away from several small towns including hospitals and 25km from the city of Guelph. We do have the capability to go completely off grid if we wanted to - we have a roof full of solar panels but it's more convenient and cost effective to sell the power to the electricity provider and buy theirs for our use, we have 33 acres, 13 of which are heavily forested and the house has a kachelofen (wood burning masonry stove) which is capable of heating the whole house (if you aren't too fussy about the possibility of burning it down) and cooking. The rest of the land is workable and is more than enough to raise food for a family and we have in fact eaten several meals where everything from the meat to the vegetables to the wine and beer has been produced by us.

The road is gravel, the snow is cleared I suspect by a farmer under contract to the town and we have a garbage collection service. It's still hard work.

Luckily when I had my nasty injury moment, I was in the driveway and my husband was a few feet away along with 3 families that were buying Christmas Trees. It could have happened at the far end of the second field with no one but the dogs to help me. That is a scary possibility and I don't go anywhere without my phone. No cellphone reception would be terrifying.

Almost Canadian

Like the poster above, we could be self-sufficient insofar as electricity is concerned as we have solar and wind power at our place but we too elect to sell our excess back to the grid and use the grid rather than have a bank of batteries. Most acreage owners are self sufficient with water and sewage too. Typically they have their own wells and septic tank/field. Our well pump gave up its life the other day and that turned into a $4,000 expense.

We are happy with using gas to heat in the winter though.

We have more than enough chickens to provide for all of our poultry needs and we are just about to purchase some lambs. Our neighbours raise cows so we trade for our beef.

We are 20 minutes south of Calgary's city limits. As other's have said, purchasing all of the various pieces of machinery one would typically need on an acreage gets expensive. I never thought I would ever have had use for a tractor, but one of the posters above persuaded me to obtain one and now I cannot imagine how we lived without it.

raindropsandroses

Knowing about something and living it are as different as night and day, and no offense but you will be babes in the wood. That's all well and good, and emigrating is always a learning experience however many times you've done it in the past (I'm a serial expat and it gets me every time still) but in a remote off-grid location its downright dangerous and can be deadly.

I'm not ashamed to admit I was of the "I have the knowledge and skills, its my dream, I'll learn and make it work" brigade. I'd even lived off-grid in France before that so had some on the ground understanding too. Whoa was I wrong.

Metaphorically speaking you wouldn't drop send a toddler out to hunt a lion would you? You'd get an experienced bushman instead.

I sound like a bad YouTube montage now, but so, so many people think its living their dream, and they've done all the research, they're smart people, they can fix their car so it will all be fine etc etc. So many times is goes disastrously wrong.

What happens when you need to get to the ER and your car won't start as its too cold? You try your second vehicle and same story. What happens then?
You can't call for help as you have no cell coverage, and unless you've had landline service installed you're stuffed.

As Scilly mentioned, landline at $1000/km (plus all the service fees, permissions) and that's even if the other landowners agree to having the line across their land. Many won't.

Why not rent an acreage say 15km outside town for a while and see what it's like, (after living in Canada for a while) as HG says living rurally but close enough to town is hard graft enough, without adding off-grid and remote into the mix.

Personally I'd never live off-grid or remotely again, we have a child and there is nothing on this Earth which would possess me to live somewhere where ambulance and emergency facilities aren't available. I would never forgive myself if something were to go wrong.