Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Hi All,
Looking at registering for one of the above prior to coming over.

Career Summary.
Year Year Technical Apprenticeship (In UK)
HNC Mech Eng, MSC Management (In UK)
15+ Years with major OEM's and EPC's.
Currently employed as Project Engineer for major EPC over a multi discipline team of 8-15 Engineers /Designers subject to project phase.

Any thoughs on which one, pro's, con's etc.

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

PEng is a side effect of provincial registration, rather than a seperate entity, so presumably you are wondering about PEO membership?

Without one years "Canadian Experience" full registration is out of the question Im afraid.

There is however a stepping stone grade available, but Im not sure whether without a Degree rather than the HNC they may require a lot of expensive exams to reach that point?

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

The HNC should be checked for IEng accreditation at http://www.engc.org.uk

If it is accredited by the EC-UK, then the Canadian Council of Technicians and Technologists will give it recognition under the Sydney Accord.
http://www.cctt.ca/

It won't give Professional Engineer status, but CCTT recognition will be a start.

There is also a recent accord (Dublin Accord)concerning Engineering Technicians, to which both the UK and Canada are a party
http://www.engc.org.uk/International...in_Accord.aspx


Jeremy

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Many thanks lads, will check those websites out later.

I,m looking at continuing employment as a Project Engineer / Rotating Equipment Engineer ideally for an EPC (eg, Bantrel, Stone & Webster, etc) is the

Also, whats the deal with one years Canadian experience, why is it so different that the rest of the world? For example if I've worked on projects for Shell using API, Shell specs etc and procuring kit from major OEM,s why should those specs etc be any different if I was working in Canada ???

Guess it is case of if you can't beat them join em but want to make sure I select the right organisation.

Assume your both in engineering. What do you both do ??

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Beats us! Let me know if you find out :) Any differences in legal codes or standards are covered by the obligatory ethics and law exams you have to take.

I'm an "everything" engineer, but officially my background is Materials Engineering with a bit of a diversion into Quality Engineering, and now overall responsibility for design, manufacturing, quality, product development etc etc for electrical filter components. Typical small company stuff, many hats to juggle.

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Thanks mate, and congratulations on the sprog !

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Hello mate,
Have just spoken to the IEE, they are sending me some forms with regards to registation to the ECUK, the IENG is part of the sydney accord which is recognised by Canadian employers so it would seem that you may not need to register with PENG or OACETT as they are similar, but it maybe easier to get a IENG hear in the uk which should take only 2 weeks (i am told) and more straight foward. You may have to be a member of a registered body like the institute of mechanical engineers before applying for the IENG. Only recognised bodies can apply on your behalf it would seem. I'll let you know more when i get the forms in the post.

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

UK membership wont necessarily help get canadian membership, the international agreement only goes as far as recognising qualifications, not experience, so you would still be left needing Canadian experience to qualify for full Canadian PEng status.

Is the P.Eng. (Canadian Professional Engineer) recognized in the United Kingdom?

No. There is no agreement between the Engineering Council in the United Kingdom and the CCPE for mobility at the full professional level. However, the two organizations agree on what university training and courses qualify you to become an engineer. This agreement is also held by engineering councils in the United States, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, France and South Africa.


As JAJ points out though, under the agreement if its good enough for the UK people, it should be good enough for the Canadians, but you will probably still need to submit transcripts etc for their approval. All a bit of a pain, but those seem to be the rules.

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Hi all. I'm in the Royal Navy and have a HNC in Aerospace Engineering. Whats the best way to go about getting it accredited for use in Canada. With 23 years experience and 17 years as a senior supervisor I dont really want to start from scratch again if I can help it. Any advice would be welcome. :)

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Most Canadian employers probably won't have heard of the Sydney Accord. The Sydney Accord means that the CCTT will recognise your qualification as equivalent to a Canadian one.

The IEng designation is not a substitute for a Canadian designation, but it will be good for your resume to apply for it, if you're eligible. It may help in some instances in Canada.



Jeremy

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

There is a separate arrangement in place (International Register of Professional Engineers) to which both the UK and Canada have signed up:
http://www.engc.org.uk/International..._Register.aspx



Jeremy

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Post #3 of this thread should give you the information you need.

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Someone should tell the CCPE then as thats where my quote about lack of mobility at full professional level came from :eek:

THe CCPE is the national organization of the 12 provincial and territorial associations that regulate the practice of engineering in Canada and license more than 160,000 canadian professional engineers

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Someone on the UK section of the international professional engineer register ought to have a fairly simple process to become a Canadian PEng. If the process is difficult, then it ought to be reported to the EC-UK for followup with the CCPE.

However the point about lack of mobility at full professional level is still true, because not every UK CEng is eligible:

"ECUK regrets that, at this time, it is unable to receive applications from Chartered Engineers that have achieved this status through the Mature Candidate Route, Career Appraisal Route, or the Senior Route. Whilst, ECUK recognises the competency of these engineers, the International Register of Professional Engineers Agreement does not yet accept applicants through what our partners in the Agreement would consider 'competency routes'. ECUK is hopeful that this situation will change although this is likely to take a significant period of time."


Jeremy

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

And although the agreements are a step in the right direction, they are still far from the full mobility agreed upon and found within Nafta. Given time I'm sure full(ish) international mobility will occur, but for the time being canadian experience is still required unless you are covered by the US/Mexico agreement it seems.

At least there is academic equivalency though.

http://www.ccpe.ca/e/mob_international_1.cfm

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Cheers for the follow on guys, think I've opened a hornets nest here.
My conclusion to the above seems to be that;
a.) If you have a degree in mech or similar eng then apply with PEO.
b.) If you have HNC / HND / Military apply to OACETT and upgrade at later date if you desire.

Regardless of all the useful comments relating to international equivilents, I think you're best of getting the Canadian version.

Also from my ltd experience in speaking to Canadian Recruitment Agencies, unless you speak to a Brit they have absolutely know idea of your background / quals and may see you as difficult to sell to an employer , I reckon I'll part with $100 if the www.wes.org/ca academic review.

If anyone is considering using this for institution membership only, don't bother, the PEO have a system to recognise overseas quals.
However from my limited job searches at the moment its well worth $100 to get the quals "Canada-ised", you'll get it back on your first placement.

Any thoughts ?

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

The CCPE website ought to mention the Internation Register of Professional Engineers, which they have also signed up to (the EC-UK website lists Canada as a signatory, and I'd presume that is correct).

Perhaps the CCPE has only signed very recently, or not ratified yet, or maybe it's an oversight. In any case, anyone affected should contact the CCPE directly.


Jeremy

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

The key question is whether the degree/HND/HNC etc is recognised by the EC-UK. Only if it is can it be used for Washington or Sydney Accord accreditation purposes in Canada.

Some UK engineering degrees are not accredited by the EC-UK, for example. Apart from special cases (eg distance learning) it's amazing how universities get away with offering non-accredited degrees, but it seems that they do.

A further 'rule of thumb' is that Canada-bound UK CEng ought to check if he or she is eligible for the UK section of the International Register of Professional Engineers.


Jeremy

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

If you are a member of the Incorporated Engineers (IIE)in the UK they will recognise this at CCTT as they have an exchange agreeement. I used this qualification to get full membership ASTT in BC with a HND with no problem (you must have PR to be accepted).
However,I have an HND and 27 years experience in HV Substations operations and Maintenance at Manager level with National Grid and still cannot get an interview with a Power Company in Canada despite looking for the last 2 years.
If there is anyone who knows contacts in the Power Industry I would be very greatful of contacts to network with.

Paul

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Paul,
Its absolute b*ll*cks that someone with your experience is overlooked.
What sort of "excuses" have you been given when knocked back.

Does concern me when I hear this type of news, as I am on an excellent salary and long term contract here in the UK at the moment and it is booming, the London and Manchester contractors have more jobs than people at the moment !

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

I'm not sure if this is quite correct - as far as I know it's not the IEng designation in itself that is transferable to Canada, but rather the accredited qualification for IEng is what's acceptable to CCTT.

I don't know if it's possible to get IEng through competency based routes, but if so, I'm not sure if this would transfer so easily to Canada.


In which provinces are you looking?



Jeremy

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Hi Jeremy, I have just looked through ASTT.BC membership and the rules seem to have changed yet again. When I applied 2 years ago they had a reciprocal agreement with the IIE which I used to get full membership (they wouldn't understand what a HND was anyway despite getting ICE done in BC). I notice they now have a section stating requirements for that dreaded Canadian experience of at least 1 year. So much for the integration of new immigrants being made easier!
I can remember the days when you could get into the Institute of Electrical Engineers with an HNC in the UK!

The skills are very transferable as the kit in the Power Industry is the same worldwide due to the limited manufacturers nowadays.

If there is one industry where experience counts for more than qualifications then this is it. The standards are virtually the same as the skills in the UK.

National Grid is a multinational company with operations in the States, Australia and many other places around the world so I have a good idea of how they all operate (and what their standards are etc). We are actively trying to get skilled engineers over to our operations in the States to bring them into the 21st century (wait for the flaming), but the facts are the facts.

I have tried all of the main companies in BC and Alberta, most are identical in structure to the National Grid in the UK but won't even meet for a chat (some state at least 7 years North American experience in the vacancy notices). I believe going further east you require to be bilingual which makes it that more difficult.

So unless I can get any contacts to network with it looks like staying put in the UK (an expensive wife and 2 kids to support)unless something comes up.

Any contacts in the industry would be much appreciated from anyone on the group.

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

I sincerely doubt that unless by "East" you mean Quebec or perhaps NB. I would be *amazed* if Ontario Hydro or Verizon here had a bilingual requirement.

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Hi Guys,
I'm ex-British Army (Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers) and I have been in Canada for a little over a year. I too have an HNC in Engineering, I'm an associate member of OACETT, have my I.Eng and a bunch of other qualifications, including an NVQ 4 in Management.

I had my qualifications assessed by WES prior to coming over. My HNC is recognised as a 3 Year Diploma in Electrical and Mechanical Engineering at a recognised community college. They have no idea what an NVQ is, eventhough in the UK an NVQ 4 is considered equivalent to a first year degree (apparently).

I was told by OACETT that I have to be in Canada a year before attempting the Professional Practice Examination. I have booked a place on the examination to be held on 13 May 06.

Here only engineers with a degree in engineering are considered engineers, everyone else is either a Technician or a Technologist, with Technician being the more senior. Currently Ontario does not require engineering technicians or technologists to be certified, unlike Millwrights and Electricians for example.

Don't be under the impression that OACETT is a big thing. I've attended a couple of meetings and it seems more like an old boys club - approx 10 members turned up for the AGM out of a chapter membership of about 1000. The London Chapter at least shows little interest in 'bringing on' associate members to achieve full certification.

Buchan6 I'd advise you try and secure employment, or at least make some contacts, before coming over. I am still trying to find employment in my field - mechanical engineering. Few jobs are advertised and those that are rarely reply when sent a CV.

I'll let you know how things go.

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

Zeppelin4,

Cheers mate, have PM'ed you.

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

All I have ever been told is 'refer to our web site for vacancies'. Been talking to a guy from BC Hydro to get feedback but there seems to be no interest whatsoever despite him telling me they are having trouble recruiting in the sector.
I have applied for jobs at entry level, Technologist and manager level all with no response. Tried to arrange an introductory meeting when we in Vancouver on a reci but they did not get back in contact despite several phone calls.
Alberta seems even worse they won't even recognise the membership of ASTT.BC despite there being no licensing requirements. A company called Altalink is the mirror image of National Grid in Alberta but their vacancy notices would be considered illegal in the UK - imagine a vacancy notice in the UK stating you must have at least 7 years English experience for an Asset Management post!
I went for an interview in Seattle 2 years ago as a Substation Operator with Bonneville Power having been told they had permission to hire from abroad. There were 30 vacancies, passed the interview and was told that I would be recommended to the hiring managers, then never heard another thing. Rang them and was told they no longer had permission to hire from abroad. They are still advertising today and have about 20 vacancies!
Perhaps its just this industry thats difficult, but it does nothing to inspire one to up sticks and leave the company Mercedes, nice house and excellent salary especially with a young family in tow.

The wife thinks we are better off staying in the UK despite its problems.

Our experience with North America and Canada has been disappointing but not totally surprising, my current company tried to buy a power company in Canada but was blocked by the government - so much for free trade (bit like Europe really).
Although we love Canada the risks seem to be very high which makes us thankful for what we have got already in the UK.
In four years of searching I have not come across anyone on the chat groups who has made it in Canada in the engineering or operations side of the Utilities.
I like what I do so looking for alternative employment seems to be defeating the object and a complete waste of skills and experience.

Good luck to those still searching.

Paul

Re: Engineer PEng or OACETT
 

I am an IEng with an HNC (I have an OU degree but it is unaccredited). I am also registered as an AScT in BC. I only joined them in Oct '05, so the ability to move across is still current. However you have to know where to look.

If you go to the FAQ section of the ASTTBC website, right near the bottom of the list, there is a question "what about if you are a member of the IIE?". There is then a link (or contact address) to get a special form to apply for membership. I am over here on a work permit (still in the queue for PR), and have not got any Canadian work experience (in fact I joined before I managed to find work!!) so you don't need to have PR or have 1 years Canadian experience.

Having said all that, I don't work in engineering any more. There is very little demand in Kelowna for an Automotive engineer (ex Fords in the UK). So I'm a property manager for one of the many strata property management companies in the Okanagan! Moved into property management just at the right time for the building boom in Kelowna :)

Anyway, hope the above helps and good luck to all.
Alex