Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

I've seen some threads discussing IT professionals prospects in Canada.
But is there anyone on the forum who specialises in Embedded s/w?

Embedded S/w designers appear in the list of occupations that have labour shortages.
Does it actually mean that it is easier for us to get a job/work permit?
Does everyone who gets a job in Canada have to start with a salary lower then the one he/she had in UK? Might it be a bit better for Embedded Softies?
Has anyone ever got a job offer without living UK ( say, on the basis of a phone interview only)?

I'd be very grateful for any reply...Thanks a lot in advance

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

Salaries in Canada are lower then in the UK and depending on where you are planning to settle/live/work the cost of living varies. Vancouver or British Columbia being the most expensive to live although I am sure others will disagree it has been my experience.

Just to give you some comparisons, if you are earning £50k in the UK in order to maintain a similar quality of life in Canada you will have to acheive at least CAD$85-100k. And coming here from UK the first thing you will encounter when talking to recruiters is that you don't have Canadian experience (now we all know there is no difference) but they will try it on you.

So the thing to do is manage your expectations when it comes to salaries in Canada. It is not the same as what we are used in UK where contract rates/salaries are openly advertised on most roles. Here this is never mentioned and is left for negotiation.

As for your question on whether people have arranged jobs before leaving UK, I have not met anyone as yet in the 18 months that I have been here. There are a few trades like carpenters, plumbers etc can find work relatively quickly unlike other specialities.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

Capillano, thanks a lot for your reply.

A bit of "reality check" really - I actually thought that salaries for softies in Canada are higher then in UK, while the cost of living is generally lower!

The other point is that I have a son in a fee-paying school; one of my illusions has been that Canadian education is better then British and I will not need to send the kid into a fee-paying school to get the same teaching quality, atmosphere, etc. Is this so? ( because if it is, I could, in theory, have the same quality on life on a lower salary in Canada...)

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

From what I understand (and the fact I work in I.T) capillano is right. Salaries tend to be lower in canada with the general cost of living be lower than the UK. But you will see intense debate on all these subjects on the forum simply because peoples expectations vary as much as the regions they live in.

I have worked in I.T for 23 years and have managed to get to a level of middle management. I spend much of my time looking after large teams of developers within the development department of the I.T division and paid as you would imagine quite well.

In my decision to move to Canada I have to accept that I will not be seen in the same light as I am in the UK. Sure my degree, professional qualifications and experiance will help but it seems without a good network of contacts and/or Canadian experinace things can be hard. I don't expect to earn the equivelant salary I have here in the UK and I don't expect to have my dream job either.

From what I understand the job market is totally different which is what usually prevents people getting a job. It is estimate that upto 80% of the market is un-advertised and are accessed via contacts and referrals. Salaries are not discussed until you are offered the job, holidays entitlement is less and the working wnvironment is more relaxed. Certain organisations are the big employers in certain provinces. I am targeting Vancouver and see the big employers (for I.T) as PWC and EA. But you will need experinace in these markets.

My advice would be learn as much as you can about the "culture" in Canada and indentify the key organisations with the markets you have work experiance. Send well crafted resumes with covering letters to these organisations, network online and on reccie trips and sign up with I.T employment agencies. Set you sights lower than you would in the UK and breakdown any barriers that may make an Canadian employer think twice about offering you a job.

Lastly, I have met people that have secured a job before even stepping in the country. But the jobs they are taking are usually highly specialised and they have been recommended by someone with a Canadian work history.

Ultimately you just have to keep positive and plug away. All the above is what I have gleaned from this and other sites/books over the past month so there may be others with more real experiance of what it is like.

I have been told that toronto is where the main I.T sector is, but that means nothing if you do not want to live there because it is too cold etc.

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

I have reasonably recent (within three years) experience of working in the IT departments of several companies in the UK (large firms with technical staff in the UK and operations outsourced overseas) as well in similar departments in Canada. I fail to see how one is more relaxed than the other. In what way do you expect this to differ?

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

The culture from what I understand within working conditions is more relaxed. Certainly the I.T industry within the UK has a culture of "work hard, play hard". But I am basing this on what I have read and understand that others may have practical experinace.

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

I find the UK to be more relaxed. For example, in the UK people are comfortable with mentioning in the workplace that they have consumed alcohol on a weeknight, people may even go to a pub at lunchtime, that's not the done thing here. In terms of working all hours to get the job done and being permanently on call, I don't think there's a huge difference, though better mobile phone and internet coverage in the UK allows one more flexibility when on call. All in all, I'd say that it's Indian working practices that set the tone in both countries, a technician in the UK or in Canada is likely to be awakened at all hours by someone struggling to express the most fundamental misunderstanding of computing concepts.

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

That all depends on what field you work in. Certainly indian working practices do not apply in the field I work in (development) but I work for a large european company.

Talk of drinking in the workplace and lunch time drinking is not part of the culture.

But it does vary, I once worked for a brewery in oxford whcih had you drinking in the morning as part of your job!!! :thumbup:

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

Canadian_bacon_boy,

thanks for the detailed reply.

Similarly to you I've worked as a s/w engineer for 20+ years, though I've only ever had a technical lead over 1-2 developers at a time.
I do specialise in quite narrow area of embedded s/w - digital TV - quite in demand specialization in UK and Europe (franckly, I've been a bit spoiled with how easy it is to get a job in UK and expected the same or better situation in Canada - silly old me!), but I've no professional contacts in Canada...

Guess, I just have to follow your advice - study the market and keep on trying...

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

Well, yes, companies do vary and admitting to drinking beer is a bit extreme for the work environment, nonetheless I'd would say that conversationally work in the UK is more relaxed. I know, for example, which of my colleagues in the UK have children and approximately what ages they are. I know that some of them follow football or rugby, some participate in sports such as squash, minor things that come out in a relaxed atmosphere.

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

Maybe with so much experinace you could pitch yourself as a team leader rather than just a techy.

The work you do sounds interesting, my first step would be to find the eqivalent organisations in north america. I find it hard to believe that when Canada imports 72% of their TV from USA they will not need the same commercial skills.

Best if we keep in touch and we can share contacts. Canadians network and I guess we have to start doing it ourselves.

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

You are referring to the organisational culture which can vary. I am suprised to hear the Canadians don't share there interests.

Why do you think that is?

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

Two things:

- an intensely competitive work culture wherein any piece of gossip may be valuable. For example, people who have small children may be less mobile or less willing to work random hours at short notice so admitting to being involved with one would be a "career limiting move". An unemcumbered colleague could use that to advantage.

- among cradles, admittedly a minority in most workplaces, a culture of resentment and passive aggression. If one were to say, for example, "I went riding on the weekend" it would be greeted by a chorus of "nice for you, I was at work" the implication being that any pastime taking one physically or mentally away from the job is slacking.

I don't suggest that working in the UK is any sort of bliss but in terms of relaxed atmosphere it's way ahead, hell I even know that an employee of a client in the UK is gay, in Canada I'd have had to have know her for decades before that, er, came out.

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

Not in IT, but I haven't come across this here at all. :confused:

I have heard that Toronto is more competitive/work orientated than Vancouver from a few different people? One recruiter I spoke to said that recruiting in Van, for instance, is quite different to his experience in Toronto i.e. techniques that worked in To. didn't work so well in Van and vice versa.

Re: Embedded software engineers, please, share your expirience
 

I knew all of these things about my fellow cube drones. Pictures of kids, we went to the pub, talked about hockey/rugby etc. I'm really surprised to discover that's not the norm where you are. Kinda sad.