Electricial certification Question
 

Hi there i am an construction electrician thinking of moving to canada . I have been looking at taking the 12month work permit route as i have a company willing to sponsor me but when looking at getting recertified as a spark over there in the application states i must have min 9000hrs on site experience . My question is does your apprenticeship count towards this 9000hrs because i have only been fully qualified for just over one year which alone is nowhere close . Also does anyone know the standard fee for an LMO because i have been quoted $5000 which seems to me very expensive ! Any info would be very welcome thanx

In all i have over 6 years experience on-site and am qualified SJIB 17th edition Inspection & Testing , SVQ level 3 cheers

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

$5,000 for an LMO :confused: That doesnt seem right to me , I didnt think there was a fee for an LMO . I could be well wide of the mark though

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

yeah thats what i thought ! gonna get a few more quotes from lawyers first

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Yes your apprenticeship is included, so with your 6 years experience you should have an average of 11520 hours based on a 40 hour week. I wouldn't worry about periodics/verification of installations, they don't exist as yet in Canada, nor does the JIB.

Who's quoted you $5000.00 for an LMO? was it one of these so called immigration consultants? You might be better going down the FSW route. You only need to prove a years experience of the NOC required trade that your applying for. Then you need to challenge the IP red seal exam.

Good luck with you choice, and beware of dodgy consultants, keep posting for more information as there quite a few sparky related trades on here.

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Yes I'll defo look at that option cheers . My gf's sister is an immigration lawyer so she passed us on to this guy but in all he reckons $8000 for the whole WP application which everyone seems to agree is way to high !
Thanks for the advice much appreciated !

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Yes that's about what they all charge, there is one that comes highly recommended on here but I can't remember their name. You shouldn't need to use one if your applying from the UK. The one you spoke to should have told you that your time would be included in the 9000 hours, if they didn't know that then its obvious what kind of lawyer they are.

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

That seems very overpriced for a LMO/TWP application, and I can't see why you'd need to pay anybody to help you with it anyway. The employer has to apply for the LMO (which is free), it's not something you are allowed to do, and then the TWP is only a 2 or 3 page form. Plus you can probably apply at the airport, so may not even need to do that form!

I think there is definitely a place for immigration consultants, but not for a TWP application, it's so easy and should only cost you $150 in visa fees so $8000 is just ridiculous imo.

Also, I thought that your apprenticeship didn't count towards your Red Seal hours, but Mojovibe appears to know more than I.

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Hi ya, my hubby is an electrician also, i have been reading that the apprenticiship hours are not included neither :confused: not that it matter for my hubby as he's been an electrician for 20 years.......there is so much confliciting advice out there so good luck!! lol

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Contacted training office today and the 9000hrs on-site experience can include ur time as an apprentice ! Thank god

Im leaving next week ( toronto) to get Qualifications assessed properly aswell as meet immigration lawyer and new boss hopefully!:fingerscrossed:

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Yes I though they would be. Because if you think about it, if you are a Canadian, you wouldn't be able to work out of the Province that you served your time in till you were about 27 years old. The following link might be of use to you. http://www.ellischart.ca/home.jsp

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Apprentship definitely does not count.

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Hi jersey , where did u receive this info can I ask ? I have contacted ministry training and they assured me that my time as a trainee was sufficient as well as my 1 year exp . If that was case then I would need to spend extra 4 1/2 years gaining 9000 hours to train for something I was already qualified to sit as I am already qualified spark in uk ?

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Hi Scotspark

I too was/am a qualified spark in the UK albeit I didn't sit a formal apprenticeship from school, I did my training during a 5 year stint in the Royal Navy then did my qualifications as part of my resettlement, as a result of this they have said I will have to prove the 8775 hours even though I have been an Electrician now since 2005 July.
I went in to see the AITB here in Alberta last week who said as much to me, I have been given the impression and been told byother sparks on here before that only the hands on time during your apprenticeship is counted not classroom time. This seems absurd to me to break it down like this but on my application form it clearly states that only "hands on work experience time" is counted.

"Hands-On work experience is timeyou spent performing the tasks of the trade. The required experience is different for each trade. Hands on work experience does NOT include time you spent attending training. For example, time you spent attending safety training is not hands-on experience"

An option I would definately suggest you consider is to obtain work as a 3rd/4th yr apprentice here which you can do without the redseal, this way you can learn on the job, and as I have found so far, there are many differences, the terminology is different, the connections are different, even the way the switches work is different, it is a learning curve that, which is not to say you couldn't do it at all, I believe a more experienced Electrician would only be able to acclimatise to quickly.
With your 1 yr post apprentice experience you could achieve your FSW visa and therefore PR where you would be free to secure an apprentice position. This is the way I have gone and I am glad I have, believe me, employers here are not shy at getting rid of employees if they are not producing the goods.
At the place I am working, 15 guys got let go at the morning break yesterday, no warnings just thanks for the effort and see ya, I was in shock to say the least :eek:
Anyway best of luck any questions bud just ask.

Just to add, the fee for the red seal is $450 non refundable if you do not qualify, the exam is 100 questions, 3 hours, multi choice open book. If you fail the 1st take it is $100 for the retake, if you fail that then you must have at least 40 more hours in Canadian training on the job.

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

I have heard similiar stories about lads and lasses having to go through their training again to be electricians and other trades, after being time served in the British armed forces. But as long as scotspark can prove his 9000 hours hands on along side his college time he should be ok. I did 3 years on part time day and evening back then, but still worked more than 40 hours a week on top. But since then I have at least 25 years experience in electrical and mechanical installation and repair. I'm sure that scotspark has worked plenty of overtime, and that his cheif wil back it up along with his other experience.

I know its quite tricky at first with the methods and terminology that are used in North America compared to the UK. I can beleive you can look quite a fool for the first few weeks on the job. Probably might look like your not even a sparky. And I can beleive that Canadian employers would bullet you as soon as they see that you're not up to speed. Especially in the current climate, just as they would do over here. I have had an experience in the US a few years back, experiencing the same different working culture and terminology, codes and methods also found in Canada.

Anyway its good to see that there's someone else on here with a first class account of experience as working as a Canadian sparky trained elsewhere. Thats willing to share their experience and knowledge of how it actually is.

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

yes i think after adding up my hands on experience ill still be over the 9000 hours limit so hopefully i can convince the training board i am experienced enough and competent enough to be able to sit red seal exam . I have all my training trainscripts with assessment records . Also have a reference from boss stating start dates and what type of on-site experience i have . I guess ill have better idea after meeting with them on what my options are b it addition training over there or red seal !
Yes I understand that with the differences over there there will b a learning period involved but i was thinking because ive not been in industry for say 20/30 years it will b easier to adapt now to the new terminology n wiring codes etc. Ive spoken to boss of company over there n he did say it will be a challenge for the first few months so i think he understands n will be patient with me lol:fingerscrossed:

Anyway thanx again 4 great advice bn really helpful :thumbup:

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

That's good news for you, even if there is a problem, I think you could just simply sit the Provincial exam for a Journeyman electrician and work in the province where you live. Then sit the red seal later on if you needed to.

This might be of interest to you with regards to a few basic common terminology and methods that you will come across.

Live = hot

RCD = GFCI ground fault circuit interuptor 6ma instead of 30ma.

Earth/cpc = bond wire non sleeved, but sometimes seen with green sleeving.

Polarity on sockets is such that if the position of the socket is horizontal, then the hot pin receptor shall be underneath the neutral, to prevent a knife or such being dropped and landing between the plug and socket and causing live contact to the knife. But I have noticed that the ground pin is always below when sockets are mounted verticle?

Cable calculations tend to on an average 20% decrease with 4 or more bunching, haven't found correction factor formulae for further calculation as yet.

Twin and earth = romex or loomex.

Conduit and other raceway sizes are metric but vary a couple of mil with the sizes over here, so your stocks and dies won't be of much use, but maybe the stocks might take the dies.

There are 2 types of metal conduit, one type is thick walled and can be threaded, and is sometimes formed with a bender that consists of a former with a long bar screwed into it. Then all the forming is done form the floor with the tube always being bent upwards. On larger projects, hydraulic benders are common.

The other is just cut and joined and branched with accessories similiar to pvc ones, but are clamped with locking screws and are better being treat like pvc with regards to earth continuity!

Cable sizes are still in AWG, and ally conductors are sometimes used but are to be the next size up for the same current rating as copper conductors. But can't be used on fire alarm circuits. Screwitts/maurette wire nuts are still used for jointing and terminating, even inside outlet box's.

RYB, Bla N/Br,Bla,Gy Blu N = R,Bla,Blu, Whi N occasionally grey. Black and white colours used on single phase circuits, black being hot! not neutral.

1 way switch = 2 way

2 way = 3 way

Intermediate = 4 way

50 v elv = 30 elv

Dist board = panel board

Industrial voltage is typically 60 hz 480v to earth and 277v for discharge lighting, and other voltages are also found in certain applications.

Domestic/residential supplies are 60 hz 120v phase a + 120v phase b = 240v used where 2kw or greater loads are connected, 208v is found at panel boards when probing phase a or b to neutral (120 x root 3), depending on the configuration on the service tranny. But I've never seen appliances rated for that voltage, so I'm not too sure why its actually there.

I think its used as a temporary method for 240 volt loads when there is a problem with the supply service and one of the tranny windings is burnt out. Then the 240v loads are reconfigured in the panel board, and sometimes by the lines men up the pole if they need to shift the connections around. But don't quote me on it as I haven't found that one out as yet, I'm still studying it myself.

When you get further towards getting over there it might be wise to purchase the CEC from the CSA website along with the handbook for it package (22.1 09). You will probably be better off studying the code first then refer to the guide when you need to, as I found it a bit misleading as its not like the on site guide we have in the UK. The CEC and handbook are sold as a package, although I think its only available in CD rom now.

Good luck with your application.

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

thanx for that mojo found that really helpful . Ive been looking through net and not really found any helpful sites for that type of thing so appreciate u taking time to give me sum tips ! Yes ive ordered c22.9-1 code book and will recieve it wen im over there next week and hopefully will help me further ( still a little confused bout the diff voltages being used in domestic units and the phase a / b , is this so less current flows though the cable with heavier loads ? )

Also not sure about the 480v to earth for industrial voltage either :confused: as with ours it is 415v between phases and 230v to earth !! Im sure things will be clearer wen i get my hands on my study books next week though ! just seems like so much different voltages are used .... 120,208,240,277,480 ! Uk alot easier to remember lol

thanx again

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

Sorry my mistake about 480 v to earth, its between phases. I think that the 120v supplies derive from the mid 19th century when there were no grid networks, and you had your own DC genny mainly for lighting, as there wasn't much else. In the UK it was the same set up, the voltages were similiar in range, then they moved towards higher voltages for higher powered loads. Eventually swinging between 200 to 300 volts, North America staying with the lower voltage of around 100 to 120v. Then eventually they moved over to AC when they found a use for it, supplying two out of three phases, a&b, b&c, or c&a, with a neutral to residential and commercial properties. Via a delta connected secondary with a centre tap between the windings giving 120v to earth, and 240v between phases a,b, or c., giving an ungrounded 240v supply. Very similiar to a 110v reduced low voltage system for control and power tools, giving 55v to earth when centre tapped, and 110v between the windings.

Digressing slightly

Until the late 40s, the voltage in the UK still varied between 200-250v, until they built the national grid. Certain regions had appliances and light bulbs rated at different voltages, if you bought a toaster or fire in say Manchester, it might not work as well or for as long in Newcastle, it might have burnt out quicker, or burn slightly dimmer. The grid system in North America isn't a national one like in the UK, due to the load demand being hit and miss across such a big area, unlike the UK. They still tend to have a handful of power stations supplying a smaller local grid network supplying a few cities, with not much, or no interconnection between the grids.

They have a distribution network of around 7.2 kv, feeding 45 kva trannies for each property. Unlike the 11kv fed subs supplying 100 or more properties like in the UK, they tend to be reserved for industrial and large commercial loads. And having multiple tappings, one tapping being reserved for the 277v discharge lighting. At the end of the day they are still trannies, except with more tappings due to the evolution and development of the load demand of North America. The pme connection is done by the sparky and not the area board, and is just a case of linking the neutral and ground bar out in the dist/panel board. But it must not be linked on any other sub main. Some of the older more rural properties are still fed with 120v to earth, single phase.

Re: Electricial certification Question
 

ok thanx I get it now , yes gonna take a bit of getting used to but looking forward to the new challenges ahead ! cheers for all the great advice