Election - what does it mean ?
Sep 19th 2008, 3:14 pm
#211
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Re: Election - what does it mean ?
There is no point in the provinces focusing attention on clarifying there PNP requirements while the immigration quota for PNP places is stuck at only a few % of the total numbers CIC deal with.
Sep 19th 2008, 3:19 pm
#212
Weirdo Latin Dude
Joined: Aug 2008
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Re: Election - what does it mean ?
Ontarios PNP is only a pilot scheme, and is in desperate need of expanding. Well, it was in need of expanding until the manufacturing sector in ontario went for a crap anyway...
There is no point in the provinces focusing attention on clarifying there PNP requirements while the immigration quota for PNP places is stuck at only a few % of the total numbers CIC deal with.
There is no point in the provinces focusing attention on clarifying there PNP requirements while the immigration quota for PNP places is stuck at only a few % of the total numbers CIC deal with.
Sep 19th 2008, 3:22 pm
#213
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Re: Election - what does it mean ?
Sep 19th 2008, 4:00 pm
#215
Weirdo Latin Dude
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Re: Election - what does it mean ?
What you put above is how it should work, but it only works like this for a percentage of people (the so called good or desirable people as they are so often described as) because unfortunately it doesn`t work that way for the majority of people and that is one of the reasons why there is a backlog of 950.000 applicants!!! If job openings were made more accessible then this figure would decrease, something that is meant to be happening as we speak.
Sep 19th 2008, 4:19 pm
#216
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Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 120
Re: Election - what does it mean ?
My wish list for policies would be
1: Immigration based on current economic requirements and long term growth. Revamped faster points bases system with scope for family migration of existing skilled workers, and a similar scale of asylum seeking candidates as Canada should be regarded as a safe haven for the oppressed. Increased Enforcement to catch illegals and over stayers, and increased support of application processing to stop canada being so slow to bring in good people
2 Recognise that the Economy is teetering on the edge of recession, and that events south of the border will have a serious effect on the Canadian economy. Work to boost the manufacturing industrial base which is suffering a lot at present, and which along with natural resources is where the decent middle class jobs and the money that the service industries service comes from. Move away from the short term stripping of assets such as oil for profit to a Norwegian type of long term investment fund. The oil wealth will only be there one time. All Canadians should benefit from its exploitation.
Remove legislative barriers to freedom of trade...ie why does canada have separate drug and electrical safety agencies to the US, they are redundant. Invest in new technology start ups that will create jobs that will not end up offshore.
3. I dont care about Quebec, if they want to commit economic suicide and go there own way, then good luck to them. Personally I dont think they are that stupid. Get rid of the language laws that require bi-lingual labeling and signage while you are at it.
4 The military needs to rethink its role. If it is to be an offensive army rather than a peacekeeping force, then it needs to be equipped with newer, better equipment to minimise troop exposure. Realistically it will never be in a position to repel the most likely invading force (The US looking to take Canadian oil and water resources), so dont pretend it is. It should be equipped and sized appropriately to meet its peacekeeping and Nato defined obligations, so some investment is still required.
5 Law and Order....A close look is needed at the measures taken in the name of our "security". Respect the rights of individuals until you have judicially reviewed proof that they are up to no good. Too much secrecy is no good for any society. Strip the assets of those who profit from crime, whether that be drug related or corporate or bicycle thievery. Create more corporate responsibility by making executives personally legally responsible for there actions, and actually do some enforcement.
6 Environmental (You forgot that one, and in my view its a critical area now)
Implement an immediate program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through a carbon tax. Voluntary programs have not been effective, the only thing corporate emitters understand is having to pay less if they emit less. Look at cars in Europe. Gas is taxed more, so people drive far more efficient vehicles.
Now, no one party is going to meet my wish list, so its no wonder I'm undecided.
1: Immigration based on current economic requirements and long term growth. Revamped faster points bases system with scope for family migration of existing skilled workers, and a similar scale of asylum seeking candidates as Canada should be regarded as a safe haven for the oppressed. Increased Enforcement to catch illegals and over stayers, and increased support of application processing to stop canada being so slow to bring in good people
2 Recognise that the Economy is teetering on the edge of recession, and that events south of the border will have a serious effect on the Canadian economy. Work to boost the manufacturing industrial base which is suffering a lot at present, and which along with natural resources is where the decent middle class jobs and the money that the service industries service comes from. Move away from the short term stripping of assets such as oil for profit to a Norwegian type of long term investment fund. The oil wealth will only be there one time. All Canadians should benefit from its exploitation.
Remove legislative barriers to freedom of trade...ie why does canada have separate drug and electrical safety agencies to the US, they are redundant. Invest in new technology start ups that will create jobs that will not end up offshore.
3. I dont care about Quebec, if they want to commit economic suicide and go there own way, then good luck to them. Personally I dont think they are that stupid. Get rid of the language laws that require bi-lingual labeling and signage while you are at it.
4 The military needs to rethink its role. If it is to be an offensive army rather than a peacekeeping force, then it needs to be equipped with newer, better equipment to minimise troop exposure. Realistically it will never be in a position to repel the most likely invading force (The US looking to take Canadian oil and water resources), so dont pretend it is. It should be equipped and sized appropriately to meet its peacekeeping and Nato defined obligations, so some investment is still required.
5 Law and Order....A close look is needed at the measures taken in the name of our "security". Respect the rights of individuals until you have judicially reviewed proof that they are up to no good. Too much secrecy is no good for any society. Strip the assets of those who profit from crime, whether that be drug related or corporate or bicycle thievery. Create more corporate responsibility by making executives personally legally responsible for there actions, and actually do some enforcement.
6 Environmental (You forgot that one, and in my view its a critical area now)
Implement an immediate program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through a carbon tax. Voluntary programs have not been effective, the only thing corporate emitters understand is having to pay less if they emit less. Look at cars in Europe. Gas is taxed more, so people drive far more efficient vehicles.
Now, no one party is going to meet my wish list, so its no wonder I'm undecided.
My Comments on your points:
1) I agree with you (this is very close to the Conservative position on immigration).
2) I mostly agree with you, except for the resource issue. Under our constitution (either the new one or the old BNA act), resources of any kind are a Provincial responsibility (eg: coal, water. oil, gold, diamonds etc). I believe this was put in place to prevent a centralized government (Ottawa) from taking wealth from one area of the Confederation (notice I didn't say country) and giving it to another (eg Hydro from Quebec for the benefit of Ontario). This is a very sensitive and complex area for most provinces.
3) Point taken, but if Quebec were to separate it's entirely likely that Canada would not survive and here in the west we would probably be forced to join the USA to preserve our standard of living and security.
4) Mostly agree with you.
5) Mostly agree with you on this too, but would add we need tougher sentencing for violent crime especially against people and we need to stop the revolving door of justice where a person sentenced to 10 years in jail can sometimes be free in less than half that time.
6) I agree with a cap and trade program for Canadian business, which provides incentives to reduce pollution and penalties if agreed targets are not achieved; however I do not agree with a carbon tax collected by the federal government to finance some sort of social programs (more like social programs for politicians, in my experience).
Anyway, thank you for you response and views, I don't agree with everything you stated but a lot of it I did.
Take care.
Sep 19th 2008, 4:21 pm
#217
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Re: Election - what does it mean ?
To all effects and purposes ONTARIO DOES NOT HAVE A PNP
It has a "pilot program", introduced maybe 18 months or two years ago now, with very narrow job fields (mainly medical IIRC)
To talk about "Ontarios PNP" is very misleading. As far people applying for residence in Canada go, it might as well not exist.
PNPs overall account for only what, less than 5% of all migration?... Thats the problem. Ontario maybe doesnt suffer too badly as its the premier point of arrival for all the people with skilled worker visas who applied to come to Canada 5 or 6 years ago or whatever the wait is now, but the lack of a PNP isnt helping any either.
It has a "pilot program", introduced maybe 18 months or two years ago now, with very narrow job fields (mainly medical IIRC)
To talk about "Ontarios PNP" is very misleading. As far people applying for residence in Canada go, it might as well not exist.
PNPs overall account for only what, less than 5% of all migration?... Thats the problem. Ontario maybe doesnt suffer too badly as its the premier point of arrival for all the people with skilled worker visas who applied to come to Canada 5 or 6 years ago or whatever the wait is now, but the lack of a PNP isnt helping any either.
Sep 19th 2008, 4:33 pm
#218
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Re: Election - what does it mean ?
2) I mostly agree with you, except for the resource issue. Under our constitution (either the new one or the old BNA act), resources of any kind are a Provincial responsibility (eg: coal, water. oil, gold, diamonds etc). I believe this was put in place to prevent a centralized government (Ottawa) from taking wealth from one area of the Confederation (notice I didn't say country) and giving it to another (eg Hydro from Quebec for the benefit of Ontario). This is a very sensitive and complex area for most provinces.
3) Point taken, but if Quebec were to separate it's entirely likely that Canada would not survive and here in the west we would probably be forced to join the USA to preserve our standard of living and security.
4) Mostly agree with you.
5) Mostly agree with you on this too, but would add we need tougher sentencing for violent crime especially against people and we need to stop the revolving door of justice where a person sentenced to 10 years in jail can sometimes be free in less than half that time.
6) I agree with a cap and trade program for Canadian business, which provides incentives to reduce pollution and penalties if agreed targets are not achieved; however I do not agree with a carbon tax collected by the federal government to finance some sort of social programs (more like social programs for politicians, in my experience).
Anyway, thank you for you response and views, I don't agree with everything you stated but a lot of it I did.
Take care.
Last edited by iaink; Sep 19th 2008 at 4:53 pm.
Sep 19th 2008, 4:40 pm
#219
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 120
Re: Election - what does it mean ?
Liberals = assumption. Assuming makes an ASS of U and ME
1) Immigration Policy
I'd like to see immigration applicants given a one-year temporary work permit to allow them to demonstrate their ability and willingness to seek and maintain employment and pay tax into the economy with the proviso that they cannot claim assistance if unemployed for any reason, and must give details of their employer to CIC. If the applicant has passed medical and vetting then they should be able to reapply for another one-year work permit. If they fail their medical or vetting then CIC would revoke the work permit.
I would also like to see mandatory requirement for all classes of immigration to reach a minimum standard of the official language of the Province of residence within 1 year of arrival and a higher standard within 2 years. This doesn't stop immigrants from celebrating their culture but allows them to integrate into Canadian culture much easier. Or do we need to start putting roadsigns in 20 different languages.
2) The Economy
Isn't doing that badly at present. Higher prices mean everyone pays higher taxes, thereby allowing the government to make more money without raisng taxes for one income group more than another.
3) The unsigned Constitutional issue (very important in Quebec).
What about the rest of Canada. Canada consists 10 Provinces and 3 Territories.
4) The Military
The only enemies likely to invade Canada are the U.S. and Russia, both of whom would like our oil, natural gas and water. We have neither the numbers or equipment to do little more than guerrilla warfare and observation posts.
Either Canada needs to reinforce the military with manpower and equipment, or restrict the number of overseas commitments it sends troops to.
5) Law and Order
Minimum 2yr sentence for carrying a knife. No bail and no deals, and doubled for each subsequent offence.
Minimum 5yrs for carrying a pistol except as a licensed firearms holder or dealer between place of purchase, residence, shooting range or other restricted location. No bail and no deals, and doubled for each subsequent offence.
Minimum 10yrs for shotgun or rifle, same restrictions as above.
These sentences in addition to any other sentence imposed for crimes involving these weapons.
6) Environmental
If the U.S. Republican Presidential and Vice Presidential nominees can't agree on environmental policy (Google it so you get an interview unbiased by my viewpoint), I couldn't possibly say for sure what the best policy is.
1) Immigration Policy
I'd like to see immigration applicants given a one-year temporary work permit to allow them to demonstrate their ability and willingness to seek and maintain employment and pay tax into the economy with the proviso that they cannot claim assistance if unemployed for any reason, and must give details of their employer to CIC. If the applicant has passed medical and vetting then they should be able to reapply for another one-year work permit. If they fail their medical or vetting then CIC would revoke the work permit.
I would also like to see mandatory requirement for all classes of immigration to reach a minimum standard of the official language of the Province of residence within 1 year of arrival and a higher standard within 2 years. This doesn't stop immigrants from celebrating their culture but allows them to integrate into Canadian culture much easier. Or do we need to start putting roadsigns in 20 different languages.
2) The Economy
Isn't doing that badly at present. Higher prices mean everyone pays higher taxes, thereby allowing the government to make more money without raisng taxes for one income group more than another.
3) The unsigned Constitutional issue (very important in Quebec).
What about the rest of Canada. Canada consists 10 Provinces and 3 Territories.
4) The Military
The only enemies likely to invade Canada are the U.S. and Russia, both of whom would like our oil, natural gas and water. We have neither the numbers or equipment to do little more than guerrilla warfare and observation posts.
Either Canada needs to reinforce the military with manpower and equipment, or restrict the number of overseas commitments it sends troops to.
5) Law and Order
Minimum 2yr sentence for carrying a knife. No bail and no deals, and doubled for each subsequent offence.
Minimum 5yrs for carrying a pistol except as a licensed firearms holder or dealer between place of purchase, residence, shooting range or other restricted location. No bail and no deals, and doubled for each subsequent offence.
Minimum 10yrs for shotgun or rifle, same restrictions as above.
These sentences in addition to any other sentence imposed for crimes involving these weapons.
6) Environmental
If the U.S. Republican Presidential and Vice Presidential nominees can't agree on environmental policy (Google it so you get an interview unbiased by my viewpoint), I couldn't possibly say for sure what the best policy is.
The Quebec issue is a bit complex though, as Quebec has rights enshrined in our Constitution that other provinces do not (Culture, Langauge etc) and certain veto rights to that other provinces don't have. I belive also that Quebec has the right to appoint a number of our Supreme Court judges, but I'm not sure of the figure (I believe it's three or four).
For all of you who attempted to answer my questions sensibly, even though I may not agree with you, thank you for taking the time.
One final point and then I really have to go. I will ignore and not respond to any personal attacks, as I believe these say more about the nature and intelligence of the person making these comments than anything else.
Sep 19th 2008, 4:45 pm
#220
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Election - what does it mean ?
Thank you for your reply CapitainHook. Unfortunately I don't have the time this morning to comment on all you points, except to say that I generally have no problem with most of the things you've stated.
The Quebec issue is a bit complex though, as Quebec has rights enshrined in our Constitution that other provinces do not (Culture, Langauge etc) and certain veto rights to that other provinces don't have. I belive also that Quebec has the right to appoint a number of our Supreme Court judges, but I'm not sure of the figure (I believe it's three or four).
For all of you who attempted to answer my questions sensibly, even though I may not agree with you, thank you for taking the time.
One final point and then I really have to go. I will ignore and not respond to any personal attacks, as I believe these say more about the nature and intelligence of the person making these comments than anything else.
The Quebec issue is a bit complex though, as Quebec has rights enshrined in our Constitution that other provinces do not (Culture, Langauge etc) and certain veto rights to that other provinces don't have. I belive also that Quebec has the right to appoint a number of our Supreme Court judges, but I'm not sure of the figure (I believe it's three or four).
For all of you who attempted to answer my questions sensibly, even though I may not agree with you, thank you for taking the time.
One final point and then I really have to go. I will ignore and not respond to any personal attacks, as I believe these say more about the nature and intelligence of the person making these comments than anything else.
Ahem. Does the phrase "socialist scum" mean anything to you?
How about these:
"you contribute nothing positive to this forum"
"uninformed stupid comments"
"you gay immigrants" (I don't take this as an insult but assume it was meant as one)
"Boy some people sure need to take a program of anger management"
"You Liberals are so gullable." (sic)
"Do you people actually have jobs and work or are you living on welfare or EI?"
"If you had the intelligence to understand my reply."
And those are just from this thread.
Last edited by dbd33; Sep 19th 2008 at 5:11 pm.
Sep 19th 2008, 5:09 pm
#221
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Election - what does it mean ?
Crikey, Chi_Nook, it's a good thing we don't take you at your word. You don't half spew out a lot of personal insults when an agrument runs against you:
"a brit whiner and constant complainer about everything Canadian and he hasn't the guts to go back to his beloved UK."
'I don't think I need to add anything to your silly rant above. Why don't you just go back to the UK, if you believe "...there is no way of life.." in Canada. I'm sure you'd be much happier in the UK, but you'd also probably do nothing but complain and whine about life there too after you got back...I just think you're just a chronic complainer...Sad really...'
"Well I actually have a job and now have to go and do some work to earn that nasty money. I don't know what you and gotoronto do for a living, but you seem to be able to spend hours everyday on this web site whining and complaining about your life over here. You both must have a very cushy jobs...."
"Do you have a life or is whining and complaining about Canada on this board and generally how badly life has treated you the only thing you do? I can't imagine you actually have time for any real friends or a job, you must be on your computer all the time...How sad..."
"You're an idiot and a complete loser"
"why don't you just go and get a REAL life and have REAL realtionships with REAL people"
"I think you need to get some professional help..."
I'm afraid I think you're rather pompous and utterly unfaithful to your promises. "No more from me on this thread" was, I think, one of them. I wonder if you yourself are not Mr. Harper.
"a brit whiner and constant complainer about everything Canadian and he hasn't the guts to go back to his beloved UK."
'I don't think I need to add anything to your silly rant above. Why don't you just go back to the UK, if you believe "...there is no way of life.." in Canada. I'm sure you'd be much happier in the UK, but you'd also probably do nothing but complain and whine about life there too after you got back...I just think you're just a chronic complainer...Sad really...'
"Well I actually have a job and now have to go and do some work to earn that nasty money. I don't know what you and gotoronto do for a living, but you seem to be able to spend hours everyday on this web site whining and complaining about your life over here. You both must have a very cushy jobs...."
"Do you have a life or is whining and complaining about Canada on this board and generally how badly life has treated you the only thing you do? I can't imagine you actually have time for any real friends or a job, you must be on your computer all the time...How sad..."
"You're an idiot and a complete loser"
"why don't you just go and get a REAL life and have REAL realtionships with REAL people"
"I think you need to get some professional help..."
I'm afraid I think you're rather pompous and utterly unfaithful to your promises. "No more from me on this thread" was, I think, one of them. I wonder if you yourself are not Mr. Harper.
Sep 19th 2008, 5:16 pm
#222
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
Re: Election - what does it mean ?
Crikey, Chi_Nook, it's a good thing we don't take you at your word. You don't half spew out a lot of personal insults when an agrument runs against you:
"a brit whiner and constant complainer about everything Canadian and he hasn't the guts to go back to his beloved UK."
'I don't think I need to add anything to your silly rant above. Why don't you just go back to the UK, if you believe "...there is no way of life.." in Canada. I'm sure you'd be much happier in the UK, but you'd also probably do nothing but complain and whine about life there too after you got back...I just think you're just a chronic complainer...Sad really...'
"Well I actually have a job and now have to go and do some work to earn that nasty money. I don't know what you and gotoronto do for a living, but you seem to be able to spend hours everyday on this web site whining and complaining about your life over here. You both must have a very cushy jobs...."
"Do you have a life or is whining and complaining about Canada on this board and generally how badly life has treated you the only thing you do? I can't imagine you actually have time for any real friends or a job, you must be on your computer all the time...How sad..."
"You're an idiot and a complete loser"
"why don't you just go and get a REAL life and have REAL realtionships with REAL people"
"I think you need to get some professional help..."
I'm afraid I think you're rather pompous and utterly unfaithful to your promises. "No more from me on this thread" was, I think, one of them. I wonder if you yourself are not Mr. Harper.
"a brit whiner and constant complainer about everything Canadian and he hasn't the guts to go back to his beloved UK."
'I don't think I need to add anything to your silly rant above. Why don't you just go back to the UK, if you believe "...there is no way of life.." in Canada. I'm sure you'd be much happier in the UK, but you'd also probably do nothing but complain and whine about life there too after you got back...I just think you're just a chronic complainer...Sad really...'
"Well I actually have a job and now have to go and do some work to earn that nasty money. I don't know what you and gotoronto do for a living, but you seem to be able to spend hours everyday on this web site whining and complaining about your life over here. You both must have a very cushy jobs...."
"Do you have a life or is whining and complaining about Canada on this board and generally how badly life has treated you the only thing you do? I can't imagine you actually have time for any real friends or a job, you must be on your computer all the time...How sad..."
"You're an idiot and a complete loser"
"why don't you just go and get a REAL life and have REAL realtionships with REAL people"
"I think you need to get some professional help..."
I'm afraid I think you're rather pompous and utterly unfaithful to your promises. "No more from me on this thread" was, I think, one of them. I wonder if you yourself are not Mr. Harper.
Sep 19th 2008, 5:22 pm
#225
Moderαtor Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,768
