Souvenir

At least some of it is in Europe.

On reflection, so is a bit of North America, politically.

Novocastrian

Well, judging from where I am at the moment (Germany), I think you might want recheck your sources.

Perhaps (you're thinking of St. Pierre and Michelin, the well known tyre makers?).

Turkey is nonetheless not part of the EU, any more than Israel belongs in the Eurovision Song Contest.

Do you want to talk about tart fuel?

iaink

It wasnt my source, but it sort of backs up what I was thinking...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessi...European_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey-Germany_relations

Novocastrian

Not really. Turkey has applied for membership of the EU, but things have fallen apart a good bit in the last few years. It might make it someday, but none of the several million Turks currently living in Germany entered because of EU regulations. And on balance, community relations within Germany are pretty good now the the Ossies have begun to catch up a bit (after only twenty years since die Wende).

Souvenir

Turkey is most certainly not part of the EU and likely won't be for some time.

That's quite handy for the country's integrated steelmakers. They're the only ones expanding sinter capacity. The EU ones can't because of those pesky environmental regulations the EU has.

dbd33

Please stop cheapening the discourse with these childish personal insults. If you can't discuss any specific aspect of the Conservative's platform, or indeed any party's platform, then please limit yourself to fawning.

Chi_Nook

Hello all you libbys. As I was just taking a quick lunch break I though I'd sign on and see what drivel is being spouted now by the 4 or 5 people who spend all day (and all night probably), posting on this thread.

Anyway, I have identified in previous posts why I will vote Conservative in this election, so I was wondering if one of you Liberals could post your personal reasons exactly why you will be voting for the Liberals, in the same area's of:

1) Immigration Policy

2) The Economy

3) The unsigned Constitutional issue (very important in Quebec).

4) The Military

5) Law and Order

I would hope one of you (or maybe you need a collective) could answer these questions sensibly, as I have already for you, and please, please don't spout on and on ad nauseam about the Green Shift Plan, lets have some other actual Liberal policies you can say you personally support.

I'll be waiting with baited breathe for your response(s), however due to work issues I will not be back on the board to read them either until much later today or tomorrow.

Have fun...

Jules Europe

Always thought by the way you spoke that you were some kind of warped out Canadian redneck that just didn`t like unskilled foreigners and minorities in his country etc...............But I have just looked at your profile and see that you are from MANCHESTER!!!! My god man what happened to you???

I thought the whole idea of travelling was to broaden ones mind not to narrow it.

iaink

My wish list for policies would be

1: Immigration based on current economic requirements and long term growth. Revamped faster points bases system with scope for family migration of existing skilled workers, and a similar scale of asylum seeking candidates as Canada should be regarded as a safe haven for the oppressed. Increased Enforcement to catch illegals and over stayers, and increased support of application processing to stop canada being so slow to bring in good people

2 Recognise that the Economy is teetering on the edge of recession, and that events south of the border will have a serious effect on the Canadian economy. Work to boost the manufacturing industrial base which is suffering a lot at present, and which along with natural resources is where the decent middle class jobs and the money that the service industries service comes from. Move away from the short term stripping of assets such as oil for profit to a Norwegian type of long term investment fund. The oil wealth will only be there one time. All Canadians should benefit from its exploitation.
Remove legislative barriers to freedom of trade...ie why does canada have separate drug and electrical safety agencies to the US, they are redundant. Invest in new technology start ups that will create jobs that will not end up offshore.

3. I dont care about Quebec, if they want to commit economic suicide and go there own way, then good luck to them. Personally I dont think they are that stupid. Get rid of the language laws that require bi-lingual labeling and signage while you are at it.

4 The military needs to rethink its role. If it is to be an offensive army rather than a peacekeeping force, then it needs to be equipped with newer, better equipment to minimise troop exposure. Realistically it will never be in a position to repel the most likely invading force (The US looking to take Canadian oil and water resources), so dont pretend it is. It should be equipped and sized appropriately to meet its peacekeeping and Nato defined obligations, so some investment is still required.

5 Law and Order....A close look is needed at the measures taken in the name of our "security". Respect the rights of individuals until you have judicially reviewed proof that they are up to no good. Too much secrecy is no good for any society. Strip the assets of those who profit from crime, whether that be drug related or corporate or bicycle thievery. Create more corporate responsibility by making executives personally legally responsible for there actions, and actually do some enforcement.

6 Environmental (You forgot that one, and in my view its a critical area now)
Implement an immediate program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through a carbon tax. Voluntary programs have not been effective, the only thing corporate emitters understand is having to pay less if they emit less. Look at cars in Europe. Gas is taxed more, so people drive far more efficient vehicles.

Now, no one party is going to meet my wish list, so its no wonder I'm undecided.

clynnog

He must be from the south side of M/CR which is a lot posher than other areas...i.e Alderley Edge, Hale Barns, Sale, Macclesfield, Marple etc.

Or he could just be Dukie armed with a spell check programme....as Dukie went quiet Chi_nook came to the forefront.

Oakvillian

As I've said before, I don't get to vote this time. But if I did, here are my thoughts on policy statements:

The liberal party's policies will undo some of the more ridiculous policy shifts undertaken in the last couple of years, specifically the ludicrous idea that the Minister has arbitrary power to reject whole categories of immigrants. The Liberals seem to have twigged that the natural population of Canada is aging, and that net immigration is critical to the counrty's economic success.

I can't be bothered to check chapter and verse, but I do recall that Dion made an announcement about this in BC last week sometime, including the announcement of increased investment to pay for it all.

It's more difficult to choose the lesser of two evils here, but Harper's attitude towards taxation and the bias in his economic plans in favour of the Alberta Oil Patch are hard to stomach. Dion's plans appear a little vague still, but the idea of using a revenue-neutral shift in the emphasis on taxation in favour of lowering energy consumption seems a sound one to me.

In terms of international economic stance, moving away from such tight integration with the US politico-economic stance seems wise. Notwithstanding the link you posted earlier about free-trade talks with the EU, I think the Liberals have a better record here than the Tories.

This is an irrelevance. Not that Quebec is an irrelevance, but that the Bloc's influence in Ottawa has been diminishing for a while, to the extent that the party is riven with internal debate about what its purpose on the Hill should be. True, the Libs have a credibility problem in Quebec despite their Francophone leader, but the very fact that it's a two horse race between Harper and Duceppe should indicate that the Conservatives are only paying lip-service to helping Quebec with anything to do with nationhood. Witness Harper's statements in the Commons on the nation-within-a-nation thing: all bluster and rhetoric (which in itself is probably no bad thing on this issue, but hardly a record to impress a Quebecois electorate).

OK, so Harper made a commitment to NATO for Afghanistan. Canada ought, in my opinion, to stand by that commitment. Harper has done a reasonable job of cajoling other NATO members into providing additional forces to share the burden - the only negative there is that most of the additional forces have been provided by the US, which does not have a very good press in the region and so makes the hearts-and-minds battles a bit harder for Canadian, British, French and other forces in Afghanistan.

The Commons passed, in April this year, a motion to extend Canada's mission to the end of 2011. This motion contained a number of initiatives that had originated in both NDP and Liberal caucus, as well as some from the Conservative side. While not exactly nem con, it was passed with few objections.

Only the most frothing of Harperites could accuse the Liberals of being anti-Military. While I don't agree with all aspects of Dion's agenda on national defence, none of it is sufficiently wide of the mark to make a difference to my (hypothetical) voting intentions.

hahaha. Here I really am in the "anything but Harper" camp. Restrict access to handguns. Provide better social welfare. Bring in programs that help to deprive people of the economic motives for turning criminal. Libs win again in my book.

Jules Europe

At first when I saw his nickname, I thought he was Chinese or Korean. Surprised me though when he came out with all this right wing crap. Then saw he was from Manchester!!!

clynnog

The 'City' of Manchester is pretty left of centre but the outlying areas, especially to the south and south east are more fertile grounds for those who believe in 'right wing crap' as you so eloquently put it.

The left believe that there is no problem that they can't spend their way out of and the right believe that all special interest groups need to be ground down...hopefully somewhere in the middle there is the elusive middle ground.

Jules Europe

The south and south east you have referred to them as "posher" So are we just talking more about their desire for a greater crackdown on crime which is nearly always on the Conservative agendas in most countries anyway or are you referring that many people in these areas have a right wing rhetoric similiar to the man you have called "Dukie"?

R I C H

Here's an article that sheds some light on why we vote the way we do:

Scientists studying voters in the US say our political views may be an integral part of our physical makeup......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7623256.stm