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-   -   Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/dual-uk-canadian-citizen-stranded-jamaica-931273/)

Hurlabrick Feb 22nd 2020 12:43 pm

Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 
Made CTV news.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/canadian-told-he-can-t-board-flight-home-from-jamaica-because-of-rule-he-didn-t-know-existed-1.4822598

Tough on people if they don't know!

Former Lancastrian Feb 22nd 2020 1:05 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 
Well its not like its a brand new rule (2016) and that the information isn't available on numerous websites. Sort of like people who are PR's travelling without PR cards. Before booking flights did they bother to check the current regulations? They booked with Air Canada well surprise its not like they don't have that information on their website

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...documents.html

OK so he has done it before but hey many years ago you didn't need a passport to fly to certain countries so can I use that as an excuse? Again another story which is one sided but no mention of their personal responsibilities and granted if it was just him yes I would have more sympathy but his daughter looks capable enough of looking into this.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/canadian-...sted-1.4822598

OK I will go and have my 1st cup of coffee :lol:

Grimnorth Feb 22nd 2020 7:00 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 
Soon after being made citizens, we had to travel back to the UK.

We left using our Canadian passports, proud new citizens.

Got to Gatwick and saw the international queue and the empty biometric gates and immediately became proud Brits again.

When we returned to Halifax the CBSA officer inspected our once again proud Canadian passports, looking for evidence of landing abroad.

Having not found a corresponding landing stamp, she looked up and said, "you saw the queues in the UK and used your UK passports didn't you"

In a child like haze I said "esss officer"

She then let us know her husband was from the UK and when they had gone back he had done exactly the same leaving her and the kids to go through international. I never asked what his fate was. :)

DigitalGhost Feb 22nd 2020 7:45 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Grimnorth (Post 12810255)
Having not found a corresponding landing stamp, she looked up and said, "you saw the queues in the UK and used your UK passports didn't you"

Well to be fair, why wouldn't you? Especially if you had your UK passport on you. It would make boarding a flight to the UK easier as well. IMHO it's only going to be a matter of time until the UK follows Australia, the US and Canada and requires all citizens to enter on their UK passport anyway since the UK is introducing it's own eTA system next year.

I'd wager most people on here who have and routinely renew both passports likely only use their Canadian one for Canada and the US. Canadian citizenship offers pretty much zero advantage over British once you leave those two countries.

Hurlabrick Feb 22nd 2020 7:47 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Grimnorth (Post 12810255)
She then let us know her husband was from the UK and when they had gone back he had done exactly the same leaving her and the kids to go through international. I never asked what his fate was. :)

Aaaahh! I am Canadian, my wife a Brit. When we go back to the UK, we do the same, BUT the UK border guys told us that it is fine for me to go through the UK only line as long as it is with my wife, so actually, no need to separate!

DigitalGhost Feb 22nd 2020 7:52 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Hurlabrick (Post 12810275)
Aaaahh! I am Canadian, my wife a Brit. When we go back to the UK, we do the same, BUT the UK border guys told us that it is fine for me to go through the UK only line as long as it is with my wife, so actually, no need to separate!

Lucky you. My previous partner had UK ILR and I was always forced to go through the 'other passports' section if I wanted to go through with her. I haven't actually tried it with my current partner who has a less 'favourable' nationality.

In any case it shouldn't be an issue now anyway for you since Canadians are on the e-gate whitelist in the UK.

Hurlabrick Feb 22nd 2020 7:59 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12810278)
......the e-gate whitelist in the UK.

Huh? Wazzat?

DigitalGhost Feb 22nd 2020 8:30 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Hurlabrick (Post 12810280)
Huh? Wazzat?


Use the eGates for quicker entry

There are over 250 eGates in place at 15 air and rail ports in the UK to enable quicker travel into the UK.

You can normally use eGates if you:
  • have a biometric symbol on the cover of your passport
  • are aged 12+ (12 to 17 year olds must be accompanied by an adult)
  • are either:
    • a British citizen
    • a national of an EU country, Australia, Canada, Iceland, Japan, Liechtenstein, New Zealand, Norway, Singapore, South Korea, Switzerland or the USA
    • a member of the Registered Traveller Service
Those travelling with ID cards cannot use the eGates.

eGates eligibility and how to use the eGates
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-the-uk-border

DigitalGhost Feb 22nd 2020 8:40 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Nearly 24 hours after they were originally scheduled to depart Jamaica, the pair flew to Buffalo, N.Y., a city next to Niagara Falls, Ont. They rented a car and drove across the border without issue and arrived home safely.
Interesting that they hooked that up so quickly. Aren't you supposed to apply for an ESTA at least 48 hours in advance of travel to the US?

catweazle Feb 27th 2020 3:05 am

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 
DigitalGhost, maybe he already had a valid ESTA on that passport?

The elderly gentleman's British passport (shown in the article) does not have the words "European Union" on its cover. Meaning it has been issued within the last year. What an interesting decision for a Canadian living in Canada - applying for a British passport and using it as the sole travel document.

Gozit Feb 27th 2020 4:49 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Grimnorth (Post 12810255)
Soon after being made citizens, we had to travel back to the UK.

We left using our Canadian passports, proud new citizens.

Got to Gatwick and saw the international queue and the empty biometric gates and immediately became proud Brits again.

When we returned to Halifax the CBSA officer inspected our once again proud Canadian passports, looking for evidence of landing abroad.

Having not found a corresponding landing stamp, she looked up and said, "you saw the queues in the UK and used your UK passports didn't you"

In a child like haze I said "esss officer"

She then let us know her husband was from the UK and when they had gone back he had done exactly the same leaving her and the kids to go through international. I never asked what his fate was. :)

How long ago was this? I've never had a CBSA officer look through my Canadian passport for entry stamps. A lot of places (including the UK now that Canadians can go through the eGates) don't stamp Canadian passports.

Besides, there's nothing illegal about dual citizenship in Canada so if asked i'd just pull out my Maltese passport.

Gozit Feb 27th 2020 4:51 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by catweazle (Post 12812658)
DigitalGhost, maybe he already had a valid ESTA on that passport?

The elderly gentleman's British passport (shown in the article) does not have the words "European Union" on its cover. Meaning it has been issued within the last year. What an interesting decision for a Canadian living in Canada - applying for a British passport and using it as the sole travel document.

Agreed. In general if you are going to maintain 2 citizenships you should keep both passports valid just in case regulations change - like this one.

Agree with FL - the regulation has been in place for almost 5 years now, people need to read up and know the rules. But if they were sensible and just had both passports valid and on them at all times while travelling then it wouldn't be an issue.

DigitalGhost Feb 27th 2020 6:33 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12812939)
How long ago was this? I've never had a CBSA officer look through my Canadian passport for entry stamps. A lot of places (including the UK now that Canadians can go through the eGates) don't stamp Canadian passports.

Besides, there's nothing illegal about dual citizenship in Canada so if asked i'd just pull out my Maltese passport.

I think it's just more that the UK has a reputation for insane waiting times at international airports these days, especially LHR, LGW and MAN. That's one of the reasons why they expanded eGate use beyond the EU to a small number of other low risk nationalities. Two years ago wait times of 2.5 hours were acknowledged for non-EU passport holders at Heathrow.

scrubbedexpat091 Feb 27th 2020 9:07 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 
I like how she places all the blame on the airline, and who travels without sufficient medications in event of a delay? I always travel with at least 1 week extra of medication.

Glad I only have to fuss with 1 passport...

cheeky_monkey Feb 27th 2020 9:07 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12812999)
I think it's just more that the UK has a reputation for insane waiting times at international airports these days, especially LHR, LGW and MAN. That's one of the reasons why they expanded eGate use beyond the EU to a small number of other low risk nationalities. Two years ago wait times of 2.5 hours were acknowledged for non-EU passport holders at Heathrow.

if you fly BA terminal 5 ..is the best terminal in the world no queues easy to get in and out if arriving and departing.

Atlantic Xpat Feb 27th 2020 10:15 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by cheeky_monkey (Post 12813074)
if you fly BA terminal 5 ..is the best terminal in the world no queues easy to get in and out if arriving and departing.

T2 is similarly efficient. I always used to fly on two passports - checking in the my Canadian one but using the UK one to enter the UK. With advent of Canadian passports being able to be used in the e-gates last couple of times I traveled I left the British passport at home and just used my Canadian one. The e-gates have got busier as a consequence of expanding the number of countries that can use them, but are still pretty efficient.

DigitalGhost Feb 28th 2020 12:03 am

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by cheeky_monkey (Post 12813074)
if you fly BA terminal 5 ..is the best terminal in the world no queues easy to get in and out if arriving and departing.

I've been there. It certainly isn't the best terminal in the world. Not even kind of close.

Heading_Baltimore Mar 1st 2020 6:48 am

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 
Not true. Two of the passports has EU. So no way to tell which one is his.

sharkus Mar 1st 2020 12:51 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 
Given his age, and the "he gets confused" statement, his daughter should certainly have done due diligence, before even booking the flights, to check wether there are any rule changes. My itinerary for a trip to Jamaica states:
  • Correct travel documents are required. It's your responsibility to check your documents before you travel.
If this was before the rule change, then I'd have bit more sympathy, as I got clobbered years ago when coming back in to Canada for having Canadian citizenship but travelling on my UK passport - I didn't have a Canadian one at the time, CIC when I called told me I didn't need one, and just my UK passport would be ok to enter Canada on, even though I have dual citizenship (I know, who'd have thought they would know the answer ;) :D ) - so a quick trip to secondary, and they said that having my citizenship certificate on me might have helped, or better still, get a Canadian passport. I did point out what I'd been told when called, and the agent agreed what I was told wasn't great advice.

DigitalGhost Mar 1st 2020 12:55 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by sharkus (Post 12814166)
Given his age, and the "he gets confused" statement, his daughter should certainly have done due diligence, before even booking the flights, to check wether there are any rule changes. My itinerary for a trip to Jamaica states:
  • Correct travel documents are required. It's your responsibility to check your documents before you travel.
If this was before the rule change, then I'd have bit more sympathy, as I got clobbered years ago when coming back in to Canada for having Canadian citizenship but travelling on my UK passport - I didn't have a Canadian one at the time, CIC when I called told me I didn't need one, and just my UK passport would be ok to enter Canada on, even though I have dual citizenship (I know, who'd have thought they would know the answer ;) :D ) - so a quick trip to secondary, and they said that having my citizenship certificate on me might have helped, or better still, get a Canadian passport. I did point out what I'd been told when called, and the agent agreed what I was told wasn't great advice.

I think the difference is you still managed to fly there and as a Canadian citizen they can't legally refuse you once you arrive. They may have just been resting on that laurel. eTA has just made things more complicated in these scenarios since the airline need a white flag before you can even board a plane.

Gozit Mar 3rd 2020 5:32 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat (Post 12813106)
T2 is similarly efficient. I always used to fly on two passports - checking in the my Canadian one but using the UK one to enter the UK. With advent of Canadian passports being able to be used in the e-gates last couple of times I traveled I left the British passport at home and just used my Canadian one. The e-gates have got busier as a consequence of expanding the number of countries that can use them, but are still pretty efficient.

As a Canadian you're still subject to immigration control in the UK. I'd still just use my UK one if I were you but that's just me.

I'll never not use a Canadian passport to enter Canada and i'll never not use a Maltese/EU passport to travel within Europe.

Atlantic Xpat Mar 4th 2020 12:46 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12815521)
As a Canadian you're still subject to immigration control in the UK. I'd still just use my UK one if I were you but that's just me.

I'll never not use a Canadian passport to enter Canada and i'll never not use a Maltese/EU passport to travel within Europe.

As a Canadian in the UK I am subject to immigration control but practically speaking if thats swiping my passport at an e-gate and having my picture taken then thats fine with me. UK Border Force has no knowledge or restriction of my activities once in the country. If post-Brexit restrictions are tightened for Canadian citizens then I'll revert to using my UK passport. Sadly thats no longer an EU passport so you have the advantage with your Mattese one. As for returning to Canada, dunno about Maltese pp's but you have to return on your Canadian one if a dual national UK citizen. You wont be allowed on the plane otherwise as the gentleman in Jamaica found out.

Gozit Mar 5th 2020 5:04 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat (Post 12815924)
As a Canadian in the UK I am subject to immigration control but practically speaking if thats swiping my passport at an e-gate and having my picture taken then thats fine with me. UK Border Force has no knowledge or restriction of my activities once in the country. If post-Brexit restrictions are tightened for Canadian citizens then I'll revert to using my UK passport. Sadly thats no longer an EU passport so you have the advantage with your Mattese one. As for returning to Canada, dunno about Maltese pp's but you have to return on your Canadian one if a dual national UK citizen. You wont be allowed on the plane otherwise as the gentleman in Jamaica found out.

Yes, that's why I said i'd never use the Maltese one in Canada - I simply wouldn't be able to...and it wouldn't make sense. When I enter on a Canadian PP I barely even get glanced at.

I wonder if in the future (post EU-offboarding procedures for the UK, around 2022 ish) it would be more advantageous to visit the UK on a Canadian passport instead of an EU one. When I went to the UK in the summer I used my EU pp, as obviously the UK was still part of the EU and freedom of movement is in effect until end 2020 I believe?

If the UK implements a system similar to ETIAS / ESTA / eTA then you probably will have to use your UK passport.

catweazle Mar 5th 2020 6:02 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12816585)
I wonder if in the future it would be more advantageous to visit the UK on a Canadian passport instead of an EU one.

Even with visa-free travel, it's usually advantageous to enter a country with a passport of that region (given friendly relations, of course), e.g.

When visiting the US, use your Canadian PP, not your British one.
When visiting Brazil, use your Uruguay PP, not your Luxembourg one.
Etc.

As to post-Brexit UK, no-one knows which foreign passport will be best. I don't think any developed country has ever tried to forcibly change its region before. An interesting experiment to watch - from a distance.

DigitalGhost Mar 5th 2020 6:08 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by catweazle (Post 12816617)
Even with visa-free travel, it's usually advantageous to enter a country with a passport of that region (given friendly relations, of course), e.g.

When visiting the US, use your Canadian PP, not your British one.
When visiting Brazil, use your Uruguay PP, not your Luxembourg one.
Etc.

As to post-Brexit UK, no-one knows which foreign passport will be best. I don't think any developed country has ever tried to forcibly change its region before. An interesting experiment to watch - from a distance.

Not necessarily. Until recently both my current and former partners could visit Turkey visa-free despite me requiring a visa. I travel under a UK passport and they had South East Asian and East Asian ones respectively. Turkey just dropped its via requirements for UKC's a few days ago in an effort to boost tourism and simplify border processes.

Ditto for when I visited Egypt last year. I needed a visa whereas my partner didn't and she has what most people would consider a far less desirable passport than I do.

TLDR: geographic region rarely has a huge amount to do with it.

DigitalGhost Mar 5th 2020 6:14 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12816585)

If the UK implements a system similar to ETIAS / ESTA / eTA then you probably will have to use your UK passport.

There's no if on that. It's happening. The current EVW program will be expanded to cover everyone except UK and Irish citizens.

Whether or not you can get one as a dual national is a different issue though. Unlike the US, Canada and Australia, the UK presently has no laws requiring its nationals to enter on a UK passport. Realistically there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to receive an EVW or its 2021 equivalent under your Canadian identity if that's all you have.

Of course, considering that the current EVW costs 50 quid for single entry, I'm not sure why you would.

catweazle Mar 5th 2020 6:31 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 
Turkey and Egypt are interesting examples, because their own region is such a disaster.

Many of the world's countries are embedded within regional agreements, e.g. CARICOM, ECOWAS, MERCOSUR, NAFTA, ANZCERTA, etc. Using an in-region passport usually makes the most sense, if one has a choice.

scrubbedexpat091 Mar 5th 2020 6:43 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 
So if I understand correctly dual USC-Canadian are exempt from needing to enter Canada on a Canadian Passport?

Ask because US requires USC to enter and exit the US on a US passport.

sharkus Mar 5th 2020 7:18 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12816636)
So if I understand correctly dual USC-Canadian are exempt from needing to enter Canada on a Canadian Passport?

Ask because US requires USC to enter and exit the US on a US passport.

Travelling to or transiting through Canada by air

Dual Canadian citizens need a valid Canadian passport to board a flight to or transit through Canada by air.

If your other country of citizenship needs you to enter and exit that country using a passport issued by its government, you will still need a valid Canadian passport to board your flight to Canada. Make sure you carry both passports when you travel. Find out more about why you need to travel or transit through Canada with a valid Canadian passport to avoid delays and/or possible missed flights.

Exception: If you are an American-Canadian dual citizen with a valid U.S. passport, you don’t need a Canadian passport to fly to Canada. However, you still need to carry proper identification and meet the basic requirements to enter Canada.

If you do not have a valid Canadian passport and are at an airport or flying to Canada in a few days, you may be able to apply for a Special Authorization.



DigitalGhost Mar 5th 2020 7:32 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12816636)
So if I understand correctly dual USC-Canadian are exempt from needing to enter Canada on a Canadian Passport?

Ask because US requires USC to enter and exit the US on a US passport.

It's not about entering. You enter by right, passport or no passport, assuming that you can prove your identity at the border.

The issue is being able to board an international flight to Canada in the first place.

The main problem for many on this forum among others is that Canada will not issue an eTA to its own citizens so therefore you have no choice but to carry a Canadian passport if flying internationally unless you also happen to have US citizenship and that passport on you.

Gozit Mar 5th 2020 7:39 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12816622)
Not necessarily. Until recently both my current and former partners could visit Turkey visa-free despite me requiring a visa. I travel under a UK passport and they had South East Asian and East Asian ones respectively. Turkey just dropped its via requirements for UKC's a few days ago in an effort to boost tourism and simplify border processes.

Ditto for when I visited Egypt last year. I needed a visa whereas my partner didn't and she has what most people would consider a far less desirable passport than I do.

TLDR: geographic region rarely has a huge amount to do with it.

AFAIK UK citizens could apply for a Turkish eVisa for ~20 quid ish. Not a huge deal.

Now it seems the UK and a number of other EU countries (Malta included) do not require an eVisa or a regular visa to visit Turkey, whereas Canadians still need the eVisa. Wonder why the change. Either way its positive for us!

DigitalGhost Mar 5th 2020 9:02 pm

Re: Dual UK / Canadian citizen stranded in Jamaica
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12816660)
AFAIK UK citizens could apply for a Turkish eVisa for ~20 quid ish. Not a huge deal.

Now it seems the UK and a number of other EU countries (Malta included) do not require an eVisa or a regular visa to visit Turkey, whereas Canadians still need the eVisa. Wonder why the change. Either way its positive for us!

The first time I went to Istanbul which wasn't even all that long ago, it cost £10. Then they introduced eVisa and with it came a flat fee of $20. I recently got evisas for my parents and it cost $35 each plus a payment surcharge.

They've dropped the visa requirement for UK citizens to boost tourism as for a number of reasons it has started to decline in recent years. There's no new affinity for the British versus Canadians or anyone else. It's just that after Germany, the UK is Turkey's most lucrative tourist market and perhaps they're also capitalising a bit on Brexit.

Officially Turkey only offers visa free access on a reciprocal basis which is why most Asian countries and some European nationalities have always been exempt. I think the UK has made it quite clear to Turkey that visa free access to the UK for Turks is never going to happen at this point though.


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