scarlet

hi, guys! just been reading anwer khan's contribution re his chances of getting an IT job in canada.
well, you know, the comments about people of his calibre not being able to find a decent job after emigrating are really off-putting, but true!
i am about to emigrate to canada too (once i get my medicals done!) after around 30 yrs in the uk but i certainly am not going to work as a hamburger flipper/pizza delivery man etc ! i mean, i too am qualified to degree level and i plan to go to canada alone for a month or two to see if i can get something relevant; if not, i'm coming straight back to good ol' uk ! as someone said in this forum, why sacrifice a steady job, reasonable income etc just cause everyone (inc the UN) say that canada has the greatest standard of living, when the truth is there are hardly any jobs going?
i am sure anybody in my position would do the same, and by that i mean being a family man of approx 42 yrs with kids ranging from 10 yrs old to 20 yrs old.
so i would also say to anwer--stay put, man. the situation is not good at all, not only in canada but also in the usa. i have a feeling that europe may well come out better off than n america once this technological bloodletting is done.
rgds

Adrian Stoica

Hi Scarlet,

According to the Stats Can site, unemployment in Canada currently stands at
7.5%, as opposed to a very comparable UK rate of 5.2%. It doesn't look like Canada is
in the throes of some Great Depression, to be honest. Also bear in mind that if you
are lucky enough to be issued a visa, you have to land in Canada in a certain time
frame, usually less than 6 months, and after years of hope and uncertainty, I doubt
that many people will want to "stay put" and risk losing it all for some dubious
statistical advantage.

Adrian

"scarlet" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > hi, guys! just been reading anwer khan's contribution re his chances of getting an
    > IT job in canada. well, you know, the comments about people of his calibre not
    > being able to find a decent job after emigrating are really off-putting, but true!
    > i am about to emigrate to canada too (once i get my medicals done!) after around 30
    > yrs in the uk but i certainly am not going to work as a hamburger flipper/pizza
    > delivery man etc ! i mean, i too am qualified to degree level and i plan to go to
    > canada alone for a month or two to see if i can get something relevant; if not, i'm
    > coming straight back to good ol' uk ! as someone said in this forum, why sacrifice
    > a steady job, reasonable income etc just cause everyone (inc the UN) say that
    > canada has the greatest standard of living, when the truth is there are hardly any
    > jobs going? i am sure anybody in my position would do the same, and by that i mean
    > being a family man of approx 42 yrs with kids ranging from 10 yrs old to 20 yrs
    > old. so i would also say to anwer--stay put, man. the situation is not good at all,
    > not only in canada but also in the usa. i have a feeling that europe may well come
    > out better off than n america once this technological bloodletting is done.
    > rgds
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

levu

I agree with your sentiments, as a father with responsibilities theres little point risking that and dragging them 1/2 way round the world so they can be poor. The trouble with being 42 is that you HAVE to start somewhere quite senior....entry level posts for people your age are mostly no longer open nor desired...the problem is in Canada at the moment low-paid entry level jobs are about all thats on offer. Its quite possible from these entry level posts you might work your way up and become wealthy in a few years.....but you have to be young to take up that venture.

As for europe coming out better than North America....I wouldn't count on it. Europe's economy is stagnant - at the moment that appears like an advantage because we've been slower to slip into recession....but pretty soon the US will be growing fast again and europe will just have to look onwards with envious eyes. High Taxes, high welfare, high government intervention....thats the european way - it kills growth.

Canada though is already booming. This year it's growth will likely be around 5% Germany by comparison is though to grow about 0.5%.

Kks

"Adrian Stoica" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hi Scarlet,
    > According to the Stats Can site, unemployment in Canada currently stands at
    > 7.5%, as opposed to a very comparable UK rate of 5.2%. It doesn't look like Canada
    > is in the throes of some Great Depression, to be honest. Also bear in mind that
    > if you are lucky enough to be issued a visa, you have to land in Canada in a
    > certain time frame, usually less than 6 months, and after years of hope and
    > uncertainty, I doubt that many people will want to "stay put" and risk losing it
    > all for some dubious statistical advantage.
    > Adrian
    > "scarlet" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > hi, guys! just been reading anwer khan's contribution re his chances of getting
    > > an IT job in canada. well, you know, the comments about people of his calibre not
    > > being able to find a decent job after emigrating are really off-putting, but
    > > true! i am about to emigrate to canada too (once i get my medicals done!) after
    > > around 30 yrs in the uk but i certainly am not going to work as a hamburger
    > > flipper/pizza delivery man etc ! i mean, i too am qualified to degree level and i
    > > plan to go to canada alone for a month or two to see if i can get something
    > > relevant; if not, i'm coming straight back to good ol' uk ! as someone said in
    > > this forum, why sacrifice a steady job, reasonable income etc just cause everyone
    > > (inc the UN) say that canada has the greatest standard of living, when the truth
    > > is there are hardly any jobs going? i am sure anybody in my position would do the
    > > same, and by that i mean being a family man of approx 42 yrs with kids ranging
    > > from 10 yrs old to 20 yrs old. so i would also say to anwer--stay put, man. the
    > > situation is not good at all, not only in canada but also in the usa. i have a
    > > feeling that europe may well come out better off than n america once this
    > > technological bloodletting is done. rgds
    > >
    > > --
    > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
    > >

According to the statistics, Canada may have unemployment rate of 7.2% but in reality
this is far from true!! Go to Toronto and have a look at the situation yourself. I
agree with you Scarlet, dont give up everything in the UK for something unknown.
There is a very fine line between being an "Optimist" and an "Optimistic Fool" Dont
rush into Canada at the mom, the situation is bad....and remember that the 183 days
rule has changed to the 2/5 year rule.

Cheers

James Fowler

There are certainly pockets where unemployment is higher than the national average,
but I don't think you can justify rejecting a statistic from Statistics Canada for
the country as a whole based on what you see just from your own (very small)
perspective.


"kks" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] om...
    > "Adrian Stoica" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Hi Scarlet,
    > >
    > > According to the Stats Can site, unemployment in Canada currently stands
at
    > > 7.5%, as opposed to a very comparable UK rate of 5.2%. It doesn't look
like
    > > Canada is in the throes of some Great Depression, to be honest. Also bear in mind
    > > that if you are lucky enough to be issued a visa, you have to land in Canada in
    > > a certain time frame, usually less than 6
months,
    > > and after years of hope and uncertainty, I doubt that many people will
want
    > > to "stay put" and risk losing it all for some dubious statistical
advantage.
    > >
    > > Adrian
    > >
    > > "scarlet" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > hi, guys! just been reading anwer khan's contribution re his chances
of
    > > > getting an IT job in canada. well, you know, the comments about people of his
    > > > calibre not being
able
    > > > to find a decent job after emigrating are really off-putting, but
true!
    > > > i am about to emigrate to canada too (once i get my medicals done!) after
    > > > around 30 yrs in the uk but i certainly am not going to work as
a
    > > > hamburger flipper/pizza delivery man etc ! i mean, i too am qualified
to
    > > > degree level and i plan to go to canada alone for a month or two to
see
    > > > if i can get something relevant; if not, i'm coming straight back to good ol'
    > > > uk ! as someone said in this forum, why sacrifice a steady
job,
    > > > reasonable income etc just cause everyone (inc the UN) say that canada has the
    > > > greatest standard of living, when the truth is there are
hardly
    > > > any jobs going? i am sure anybody in my position would do the same, and by that
    > > > i mean being a family man of approx 42 yrs with kids ranging from 10 yrs old
to
    > > > 20 yrs old. so i would also say to anwer--stay put, man. the situation is not
    > > > good at all, not only in canada but also in the usa. i have a feeling that
    > > > europe may well come out better off than n america once this technological
    > > > bloodletting is done. rgds
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
    > > >
    > According to the statistics, Canada may have unemployment rate of 7.2% but in
    > reality this is far from true!! Go to Toronto and have a look at the situation
    > yourself. I agree with you Scarlet, dont give up everything in the UK for something
    > unknown. There is a very fine line between being an "Optimist" and an "Optimistic
    > Fool" Dont rush into Canada at the mom, the situation is bad....and remember that
    > the 183 days rule has changed to the 2/5 year rule.
    > Cheers

scarlet

in reply to kks and levu, yes, i agree with you guys, in that for someone aged around 42, entry level jobs are not the answer. even if you are accepted, the salary you will be paid will most probably be ok for a single person, but not sufficient to support a family of 5.
i would probably be looking for a mid-level position, something that requires 5 to 15 years experience. if that doesn't work out, then there is the option of starting up a small business, like maybe a Subway or something, but then again, that sort of thing requires real long hours, something i will most likely find tough to get on with, since in my present job i enjoy engineer status with 9 to 5 hours, which leaves me with ample time to chill out with the kids or pursue hobbies, etc.
so all in all, i am not really suffering here in the uk; its just that i've been here almost 30 years and am just hungry for a change, and reckon canada may well be the ideal place place for me. on the other hand, it may turn out to be the old green grass story........but as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.....you never know till you try, and for me, i think i am still at that age where i can give it a try and if it doesn't work, come back here and start over...the only loss will be my immigration fees!!

jenkins789

That is a good positvite attitude Scarlet. A Pragmatic approach is the order of the day. All I can suggest is to go over there and blitz the local recruiters but my fear is a month might not be long enough. I have been advised when you send feelers out they take about a month in getting back to. Suck it and see. From reading these postings it has left me somewhat concerned.

All the best, hope it works out for you.

Keep smiling

The Wizzard

I think one thing to bear in mind is that this is really the only newsgroup about
immigration to Canada, Canada takes 10's of thousands of immigrants a year, and yet
there are really only a handful of people really complaining here. Ther eis always an
issue with employment when it comes to immigration but it is too easy to just listen
to the worst case scenarios and then let that get you down. for every person who
posts in here saying they didnt find a job in teh first few months etc there will be
people who do and people who have been in Canada a few years and made a great life.
you hear a lot of stories as well of the super qualified taxi drivers but again i
think a lot of these are over qualified people who say have PhD's and find themselves
over qualified for most jobs or have problems with language and communication etc.
there will be people from every country and culture who have problems when they
emmigrate, but tehre will also be those who don't, its a complete spectrum. and like
you say, you never know till you try, and for people to read a few other peoples bad
times and then throw away their own chances seems a bit rash to me.


"scarlet" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > in reply to kks and levu, yes, i agree with you guys, in that for someone aged
    > around 42, entry level jobs are not the answer. even if you are accepted, the
    > salary you will be paid will most probably be ok for a single person, but not
    > sufficient to support a family of 5. i would probably be looking for a mid-level
    > position, something that requires 5 to 15 years experience. if that doesn't work
    > out, then there is the option of starting up a small business, like maybe a Subway
    > or something, but then again, that sort of thing requires real long hours,
    > something i will most likely find tough to get on with, since in my present job i
    > enjoy engineer status with 9 to 5 hours, which leaves me with ample time to chill
    > out with the kids or pursue hobbies, etc. so all in all, i am not really suffering
    > here in the uk; its just that i've been here almost 30 years and am just hungry for
    > a change, and reckon canada may well be the ideal place place for me. on the other
    > hand, it may turn out to be the old green grass story........but as they say, the
    > proof of the pudding is in the eating.....you never know till you try, and for me,
    > i think i am still at that age where i can give it a try and if it doesn't work,
    > come back here and start over...the only loss will be my immigration
    > fees!!
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Kks

Jenkins, you are dead right, I was in Toronto for a month....applied for all IT jobs
which required my skills....spoke to a lot of recruiters....no luck!! What I have
learned is and this may help you ....if you are in IT and have special or rare
skills like e.g SAP, PeopleSoft, GraphTalk etc ...go to Toronto.. If you have
ordinary skills (like me)vb, internet, Java etc DO NOT ENTER Toronto... try
elsewhere ...like Calgary, Edmonton etc and be prepared to spend at least 5-6 months
to get that IT job you want!

Cheers

jenkins789 <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > That is a good positvite attitude Scarlet. A Pragmatic approach is the order of the
    > day. All I can suggest is to go over there and blitz the local recruiters but my
    > fear is a month might not be long enough. I have been advised when you send feelers
    > out they take about a month in getting back to. Suck it and see. From reading these
    > postings it has left me somewhat concerned.
    > All the best, hope it works out for you.
    > Keep smiling

Peter Wu

[email protected] (kks) writes:

    > Jenkins, you are dead right, I was in Toronto for a month....applied for all IT
    > jobs which required my skills....spoke to a lot of recruiters....no luck!! What I
    > have learned is and this may help you ....if you are in IT and have special or rare
    > skills like e.g SAP, PeopleSoft, GraphTalk etc ...go to Toronto.. If you have
    > ordinary skills (like me)vb, internet, Java etc DO NOT ENTER Toronto... try
    > elsewhere ...like Calgary, Edmonton etc and be prepared to spend at least 5-6
    > months to get that IT job you want!

Any opportunities to run your own firm?

Bodza Bodza

[email protected] (kks) wrote: in message
    > If you have ordinary skills (like me)vb, internet, Java etc DO NOT ENTER Toronto...
    > try elsewhere ...like Calgary, Edmonton etc and be prepared to spend at least 5-6
    > months to get that IT job you want!

On the contrary, there are far more ordinary skills jobs in Toronto than there are
wierd skills jobs. If you have wierd skills you certainly will be able to find
something, but that is not to say you won't get ordinary skills jobs. What you are
probably facing is the old "no canadian experience" angle combined with "English not
first language" There are literally thousands of people with no canadian experience
and "ordinary skills" who don't even get a look in. I should know, I was a headhunter
for two years AND am British.. It goes like this in order of preference:
1. U.S. Experience = Canadian Experience
2. West European/Australian Experience if no Canadian or Yank Experience
3. All Others.

Unfortunately there are *tons* of #3.

Brits/Australians tend to find work before other types of immigrants because a. They
speak English as a first language (Even if their accent is sometimes hard to
understand)
b. Up till recently they were both part of a common "empire" and there is a slight
favoritism.

To summarize: If you speak English as a first language and you have
U.S./Canadian/West European/Australian experience, then you will probably be
considered (at least by headhunters, whose job is to screen out people, like it or
not). Otherwise you're bottom of the list unfortunately and will probably be screened
out. You will thus be left with the hardest method which is to telephone the
companies directly and follow up with resumes.

There *are* jobs out there, I've looked, but the salaries haven't come back even to
where they were pre-boom, so I'm waiting for another two years before returning.

Scarlet is quite right: It would be *nuts* to move from the UK with a good standard
of living to basically start again when your *requirements* are at least a mid-level
job to support your family. If you're single, you can risk losing everything and you
can start again from scratch just scraping by. If you have a family this is too big a
risk. If you decide to make the move anyway, I suggest you figure out how much money
you're going to need to subsist at a basic level for four years so you can get
Canadian citizenship and return to your own country if you fail to achieve your goals
with the added bonus of being able to build up a fund to return and try again.

Toronto prices as a rough guide Rent for a three bedroom apartment: $1300/month Rent
for a two bedroom apartment: $1100/month

Groceries to feed four people for a month: $500 Phone: $60 month Transport costs for
pounding the streets looking for work(no car): $500 month

My estimate is you will need a minimum of $120,000 give or take to be able to subsist
four years with no income.

Bearing in mind that you get free English classes and I can't believe you won't get
*anything* in four years. I had to take a commission only sales job (there are tons
of these) until I could get something better.

The key thing is to take a large enough wad of cash to get you by until you
land a job.

When I did the same thing I went out in 1994. There were hardly any jobs around for
people with one year's experience (ordinary skills
b.a. vb etc). So I took the headhunter job and otherwise made tons of phone calls. I
had enough money to last for six months. I made some commissions and scraped
through some two years more until I finally picked up a decent job. I changed
job four times in five years and I needed up to two months to find work not
trying too hard (these were the "good times"). That lasted for five years and
then my run of luck ran out in the middle of 2001. I have a family and could not
support them in Canada so I rented out my house and returned to the UK where I
found a decent job within a month. I plan to return to Canada but not till
things get better (fifty some jobs a month I can do rather than six or seven)
with salaries a bit better (i.e. at least $80K instead of the $40-$50K that is
currently on offer (pisstake levels we call it in the UK).

When you do have a good job in Canada, the lifestyle is much better and much higher
quality than in the UK with the sole exception being you have to work too many
hours and foreign vacations are just too expensive. (There is no easyjet in Canada
for example).

In any case, good luck.

Bodza Bodza

From: [email protected] (Bodza Bodza) Newsgroups: misc.immigration.canada Subject:
Re: dont sacrifice your jobs....... References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.254.176.21

[email protected] (kks) wrote: in message
    > If you have ordinary skills (like me)vb, internet, Java etc DO NOT ENTER Toronto...
    > try elsewhere ...like Calgary, Edmonton etc and be prepared to spend at least 5-6
    > months to get that IT job you want!

On the contrary, there are far more ordinary skills jobs in Toronto than there are
wierd skills jobs. If you have wierd skills you certainly will be able to find
something, but that is not to say you won't get ordinary skills jobs. What you are
probably facing is the old "no canadian experience" angle combined with "English not
first language" There are literally thousands of people with no canadian experience
and "ordinary skills" who don't even get a look in. I should know, I was a headhunter
for two years AND am British.. It goes like this in order of preference:
1. U.S. Experience = Canadian Experience
2. West European/Australian Experience if no Canadian or Yank Experience
3. All Others.

Unfortunately there are *tons* of #3.

Brits/Australians tend to find work before other types of immigrants because a. They
speak English as a first language (Even if their accent is sometimes hard to
understand)
b. Up till recently they were both part of a common "empire" and there is a slight
favoritism.

To summarize: If you speak English as a first language and you have
U.S./Canadian/West European/Australian experience, then you will probably be
considered (at least by headhunters, whose job is to screen out people, like it or
not). Otherwise you're bottom of the list unfortunately and will probably be screened
out. You will thus be left with the hardest method which is to telephone the
companies directly and follow up with resumes.

There *are* jobs out there, I've looked, but the salaries haven't come back even to
where they were pre-boom, so I'm waiting for another two years before returning.

Scarlet is quite right: It would be *nuts* to move from the UK with a good standard
of living to basically start again when your *requirements* are at least a mid-level
job to support your family. If you're single, you can risk losing everything and you
can start again from scratch just scraping by. If you have a family this is too big a
risk. If you decide to make the move anyway, I suggest you figure out how much money
you're going to need to subsist at a basic level for four years so you can get
Canadian citizenship and return to your own country if you fail to achieve your goals
with the added bonus of being able to build up a fund to return and try again.

Toronto prices as a rough guide Rent for a three bedroom apartment: $1300/month Rent
for a two bedroom apartment: $1100/month

Groceries to feed four people for a month: $500 Phone: $60 month Transport costs for
pounding the streets looking for work(no car): $500 month

My estimate is you will need a minimum of $120,000 give or take to be able to subsist
four years with no income.

Bearing in mind that you get free English classes and I can't believe you won't get
*anything* in four years. I had to take a commission only sales job (there are tons
of these) until I could get something better.

The key thing is to take a large enough wad of cash to get you by until you
land a job.

When I did the same thing I went out in 1994. There were hardly any jobs around for
people with one year's experience (ordinary skills
b.a. vb etc). So I took the headhunter job and otherwise made tons of phone calls. I
had enough money to last for six months. I made some commissions and scraped
through some two years more until I finally picked up a decent job. I changed
job four times in five years and I needed up to two months to find work not
trying too hard (these were the "good times"). That lasted for five years and
then my run of luck ran out in the middle of 2001. I have a family and could not
support them in Canada so I rented out my house and returned to the UK where I
found a decent job within a month. I plan to return to Canada but not till
things get better (fifty some jobs a month I can do rather than six or seven)
with salaries a bit better (i.e. at least $80K instead of the $40-$50K that is
currently on offer (pisstake levels we call it in the UK).

When you do have a good job in Canada, the lifestyle is much better and much higher
quality than in the UK with the sole exception being you have to work too many
hours and foreign vacations are just too expensive. (There is no easyjet in Canada
for example).

In any case, good luck.