Does Canada Exist?
 

Hi there,

The discussion regarding the wildly fluctuating cost of car insurance across the provinces, got me thinking.

So many things are different depending on the province, e.g.

* Provision of health care.
* Services provided for children/disabled people/the elderly.
* Cost of fuel.
* Level of taxation.
* Certification/professional standards.

All these things (and more) are different depending on which province you end up in.

Also, living in a remote area in BC, I have no daily awareness of 'Canada' - it's too big and most of it is too far away.

My question is, how does Canada manage to feel like a country, when it's provinces are so independent?

Just thought it would be an interesting thread.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

That's exactly why questions like "what's it like in Canada? What's the weather like, the health service, the roads, the houses, the people, the food ..... ???" tend to get such short shrift from folks here on the boards! :D

I tend to agree ..... the IS no Canada, from that point of view.

Apart from Rona's .... which is "Proudly Canadian"! :p

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

We went there once, 2003, not sure it exists when you aren't there though.
I hope it exists because we'll be living there next Summer.

The U.S. is the same, go from one state to another and it's like going into a different country, different rules, laws, etc. Australia is also like that. It's got to do with sheer SIZE, and manageability of ......spread out...... social structures. So my geophysics teacher implied.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Canadians (and U.S.A.ers) have flags flying outside their houses to remind them what country they're in.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

I grew up in southern Ontario and now live in the Kooteneys in BC. When in Ontario, I was part of southern Ontario only, didn't know or care much about the west or east etc. Now in BC, I am part of the Kooteneys and concentrate on the area here. I think this is normal--people in most countries are regional, rather than federal. In New Zealand, where I used to live, people consider themselves from the "South Island" or "North Island" and of course consider where they lived to be the better choice. In Australia, where I also lived, one considers oneself from an area in a state, not really as an Australian as a whole. I think it is really only when you travel abroad that you consider yourself part of the country as a whole. The only country where I found people thought of themselves as part of the whole country on a day to day basis was Singapore, and what other choice do you have there? It's a bit ridiculous to consider yourself 'from the east' verses the 'west' when it is technically possible to walk from one side of the country to the other.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Well there is Newfoundland and then there is 'Mainland' Canada. The existence of which has not yet been proved to our satisfaction although many Newfoundlanders head to the mysterious mecca of 'Alberta'. What is this Alberta you speak of?

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Decades ago people from all over the world went to a place called Saudi Arabia. It was a big place; rather flat, mostly uninhabited. The locals were, and still are, rather conservative in their views. Not a great place to be a poof. But a great place to be if you didn't mind sand, rednecks and making bucketloads of money extracting oil for the benefit of people that didn't like you.

Today, people from all over are going to a place called Alberta. It's big; rather flat and mostly uninhabited. The locals are rather conservative in their views. Not a great place to be a poof. But a great place to be if you like oilsands.

For now.

The crude oil price dropped below $60/bbl today. If it drops below $50 and stays there, "poof" will be the sound the Albertan economy makes.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

That's the beauty of it.

What's a Canadian? A Canadian can be anything or nothing.

If you don't like the political, economic or social climate of Alberta, you can move to PEI. You can move 'country' to 'country' with relative ease and not leave your country. Never in my life have I felt so regulated and watched by a government and attempted to be made aware of what national group X should be than my 5 years in England.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Couldn't the same question apply to the UK with devolution, national parliaments and the Scottish Independence Party ?

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Scottish National party but we'll let you off with that one. :p

Most Scots that I know have never considered themselves to be 'British' and that makes me sad...sometimes. It is an alien and awkward concept that we only acknowledge grudgingly at passport control. However, that sense of not belonging to a Catch-all political entity does not stem from geographical size but rather from 1000+ years of mistrust and garrison mentality - on all sides and is a sad and pointless throwback.

To most Scots, Britain doesn't exist. England, Ireland, Scotland (and that other one ;) ) are however very real and very relevant and unlike someone living in say Ontario not giving a stuff about the goings on in BC, the majority of Scots are very interested in what goes on in the other countries that comprise the British Isles.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Well said big man ;) :)

Raine

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

The same way that the US manages to think of itself as a country with its 50 states which are all independent of one another just as the Canadian provinces are.

It is federal laws that bind them together. One big brother government with power over the little brother.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Oh Sarah I hadn't read your thread and started a new one. I'm sorry but your post would have been perfect for me to throw all my ramblings at! You have hit the nail on the head here as far as I am concerned and to be perfectly honest when folks on here (me included from time to time) whinge about others who are unhappy and complaining and saying to them that they mustn't have researched enough....come on this country is the second largest in the world! How can any new immigrants ever research all that can be researched?? It is a total minefield for them, and us to an extent! I've only ever been to 3 Provinces and some people have never been to more than one.

I read the linked thread and although yes the woman did get things a bit wrong BUT that was her experience of her little part of Canada. Sad really that perhaps if any of these desperately unhappy people had the wherewithall to go on tour for a while, they may just find their little piece of heaven that they are looking for. They think that all of Canada is one place, all the same but with slightly different scenery, when in fact it is more like loads of little countries within one large area.

Maybe we shouldn't be so hard on them eh? I say this to myself too as I have also been guilty of telling moaners to just get on with life and stop whinging. I feel bad now. :(

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

I'm Scottish, born and raised there and yet I NEVER consider myself to be Scottish! I always say I am British......but I do know what you mean, I don't know many like me.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Shame on you ;) :)

Raine

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Hence the caveat: "Most Scots that I know..."

Each to their own.

Best wishes.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

There is a legitimate reason for the relatively strong powers given to provinces. In a country this size, different areas face very different issues and problems - i.e., NWT's priorities are not those of Ontario. There are varying population demographics, climates, geography, political leanings, etc. If there were only one level of government, that is federal, responsible for overseeing the entire country, you can bet that any place outside the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal triangle would get short shrift - not even necessarily intentionally, but just because issues that did not figure in the capital region would not really be understood or on the radar. By having provincial governments with broad decision-making powers and influence, you have a body that understands what is going on locally and can deal with it more appropriately. At least, that is the idea.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Must be a bunch of damm Northerns to be asking dozy questions. Where's Canada ?









Inside of you. Same as any claim of nationalism

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

It exists as much as the UK, that is, at Olympics and World Championships- Oops even the UK doesn't exist there in football. There are even more regions with huge differences -verbally/ socially/ geographically in a tiny country like the UK.

In Canada we have historical connections and language connections and that seems to be it- province to province there is no real connection and that is evident when we hear the politicians speak.

Can't imagine why Newfoundland for example doesn't reverse its connection to Canada and then it would have its own rights around its shores and like Alberta not have to hand over all that money to Ottawa. It certainly would not lose its population then.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Ah then the Feds could end transfer payments, NF could go bankrupt paying EI, EI would end in NF, all the Newfies would have to move to where the work is (AB) and net-net the nation would be better of as a whole and more competitive. Free market thinking, I like it :D

Rich.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Ah, but they wouldn't have to pay Canadian federal taxes which are far greater than the provincial taxes- so I think with their natural resources they would do well and Alberta's economy would sink because they wouldn't have enough workers. They could join the EU and be better off than Iceland. :D

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

You underestimate the Newfie's desire to lounge around funded by the taxpayer. And they'd spend all the bonus on a year-long raging free fiddle music party.

I'd give it a year I tell you. :D

Rich

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

Ohh there's nothing like a stereotype to make us feel all superior you monged out tree huggin BC type, you...

Sadly the time for Newfoundland independence has been and gone. It's a popular myth that had Newfoundland became independent at the time of joining Canada in 1949 that it would have retained control of it's key industry - the fishery, managed it better and grown to be a strong successful nation in the same vein as Iceland. Unfortunately I think that the fishery would have been mismanaged for political expediency still (just regional politics as opposed to regional/national/internation politics) and would have still collapsed. One of the key themes of Newfoundland life has been protecting the outports, making sure they still exist. Iceland on the other hand has a very pragmatic approach to community sustainability - if a community isn't economically viable it isn't supported. Today, the viability of many communities in Newfoundland is in question.

Oil and Gas may be the saviour of the province as a whole but even with the resources present I doubt it would support independence. It does give an opportunity to change things for the better and be a more powerful player within Canada. Hence Danny Williams 80% popularity ratings for taking on big oil, Steven Harper and Quebec Hydro power.

BTW, Rich Newfoundland joining confederation probably resulted in a net benefit to Canada as a whole. At one time shipments of fish to Alberta kept that province from starvation. I would agree that there is an EI culture that has sprung up as the fishery has declined and become more seasonal. It's the darker of the Newfie character traits. More positive ones are a tremendous sense of identity and heritage and in many a strong work ethic. After all the x hundred thousand Newfies in Fort McMurray 'aint there for the scenery and climate.


AX

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

That seems to be a problem everywhere in Canada today whereas years ago the residents of these communities would have migrated elsewhere in Canada, now they have to be kept going at a ridiculous cost to the rest of the taxpayers.

Re: Does Canada Exist?
 

There was once a political leader in Quebec, now mercifully retired, who said that this was an artificial country. His motives are/were obvious but I have to agree with him wholeheartedly.

The West has nothing in common with East.

It is not just geography or sheer size as Americans still consider themselves Americans whether they live in Maine or California, Mississippi or Alaska.

In this country the narrow minded provincial mentality prevails. So in my mind Canada doesn't exist; it is nothing more than a loose federation comprised of whining selfish provinces. There is no such thing as national unity.

How this so called county has managed to survive all these years is beyond me.