Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

I hear what you say Iain, but there's no smoke at all from the modern diesels, never mind the transport trucks look at the ships that have massive diesel engines, you don't see smoke from them either.

Gas aint cheap anymore, and diesels aint slow anymore diesels have done better than 200 MPH, but it's not speed that turns me on, it's getting twice the mileage for the buck. Diesels aren't slow out of the blocks either, this 1.9 of mine easily does 0-60 in around 9 seconds, almost 4 seconds slower than the VW W8 that I had, but that's a momentary thrill {that can cost you yer life, or some other poor sod when less than professional drives are in charge of muscle cars, I've seen it happen and two girls killed stood at a bus stop}.

Anyway, I digress, the momentary thrill of speed soon wears off when you go from 25 MPG to 60 MPG in the same class/weight of car, Saab 9-3 vs VW W8
or the V6 {I've had them all in the last 5 years}, all brilliant driving cars, but the price of gas is going in the wrong direction, and I don't like the thought of subsidising the A rabs, or the billionaire oil magnates, nor the 80% tax on fuel Governments.

The V6 sure can get 200 HP but the 9-3 diesel puts out 150, bottom line is the 200 petrol horses like to drink twice as fast as the diesel horses, that's the decider for me...

Amazing what's been done with diesel engines in the last few years, the Saab 1.9 puts out more torque and more HP then the 2.2 engine that it replaces...

Odd how folks see things from one part of the worlld to another, in Europe 40% of the cars on the roads now are diesels, I'd be amazed if it was 4% in North America. Add to that, the vast majority of cars in North America are automatic, but it's exactly the opposite at least here in the Untidy Kingdom.
That could be because the manufacturers want another 1200 quid to put an automatic box in, and seeing as it's not called "rip off Britain" for nothing, folks are already maxed out buying a new car, so they don't want to spend another 1200 quid on an automatic gear box.

Here's the thing on that though... if you do pay the 1200 quid for an auto box, shouldn't they give you the manual box that was in the car {sort of}, seems to me you pay for 2 gear boxes... no one has clocked that trick yet...

Here's an odd one for your though... ever see a diesel motorbike ! the SAS use them... certainly a special purpose bike, and I'm not sure I'd want to sit on top of a diesel engine, but having said that, sitting on a petrol engine seems to be arf the fun for bikers...

Canada Bob.

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

You clearly have not seen the average truck on the 401! I take your point about all the other stuff, but all a canadian consumer sees is the plume of smoke coming from the big rigs and the cost of diesel higher than the cost of gas (although strangely more stable ;) )

The mere fact that there are diesel Jaguars now (surely the thin end of the wedge) shows how far diesel tech has come...whether they will ever sell one in North America is another thing altogether, and it will probably take a doubling in gas prices to european levels for them to take of, which lets face it is why they sell in Europe after all.

Personally I dont think it has anything to do with the oil companies, they make just as much money out of selling a lower refined product like diesel, and car companies will only respond to consumer demand, so it will be interesting to see what happens here as gas prices inevitable will eventually have to come more into line with the rest of the world as the US realises it has to become self sufficient, if only for "security" reasons.

Autos are just part of the culture here, initially suited to big displacement V8s and carried over to everything else as people forgot how to shift. Ideal for driving conditions where you are either sitting in a jam or covering long distances with cruise control on. Usually only $1k or so here, and most US models dont even offer standard once you get up to midsize or minivan.

You must have been that one guy I read about who bought a W8 ;) Ive never seen one on the road over here, let alone a Phaeton!

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

Hi Iain, agree with much of what you say with the exception of the economics, put simply........................
Gas - 15mpg- 90 cent per litre - regular refills required - lots of profit.
Diesel - 30mpg (and the rest) - $1 per litre - fewer fat cat cigars for Mr Shell!
I am being kind to gas with the sums but however you look at it, if oil is turned to petrol then lots n lots more profits than with diesel due to the consumption per mile.
Stuarty

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

However, there is a lot more refinement and additions (and marketing) going into the cost to the gas company of petrol.

Most of the up front cost is tax anyway, so the processing and refinement costs have a big effect on profit for them. I wonder in the great scheme of things just how much total volume of sales is private (gas) vehicles over commercial (diesel) sales. Over here where the space allows there are commercial truckstops with diesel pumps 20 abreast, with truckers pumping hundreds of dollars of diesel at a time. The oil companies do OK out of that I suspect, twice the profit and the better consumption of the vehicle doesnt matter to them.

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

Hello Iain...

It won't be long before Canadians find themselves paying World prices for gas, it's inevitable, fact is I can't understand how they get the prices that prevail in Canada right now, it's not down to tax, as in both countries the tax rate is around 80%. I guess if you gouge at the front end {profiteering} then the tax represents and carries that as well...

I think the smoke blowers that folks notice probably have 300,000 miles on the clock, and are the older generation of diesels, the new trucks {that none of us notice} don't blow smoke these days. Mind you I've seen some neglected gas guzzlers blow smoke screen on the highways too, but like the trucks it's more down to neglect than owt else...

As far as gas doubling in price, it's almost there now, worse than that I can remember 25c a litre when we first went to Canada, but it aint that long ago that gas was 70c, now in most Provinces it's $1.10 or more, and it certainly won't be coming down.

Regarding "supply & demand" well... if they don't supply diesels they won't get the demand, I'd bet that most folks in the U.S. don't even know you can get a diesel car ! let alone ask for one... Regarding "security" that's the real smoker, the U.S. & Canada have enough of that frozen methane to provide themselves with around 5,000 years of fuel at known resources and at todays demand levels... but for some reason this topic is Top Secret !

Yer right about the cultural thing, diesels in Europe, auto transmissions in North America, and you can't talk one into the other... can't understand how the "American males" live day to day driving non manual cars, surely they must feel effeminate {sigh}... I am being facetious Iain, but I get so tired of men ore here saying "they want to be in control of their cars" by having a manual transmission, then they roll back into my car at the traffic lights, or race the engine in first gear as they do 30 MPH down the street.

Then rather than say they can't afford an automatic, they say it gives them the feeling of being "racing drivers!, sigh... if the best Formula 1 driver drove an manual transmission he's be dead last every time he turned out... but try telling the gobshytes that...

Re the W8 last I heard just 6 were sold in Nova Scotia, loved the car, but it wasn't that much better than the Passat V6 that I had prior to the W8, both had 4WD that's something else I like, not just for bad weather conditions, but for fast and straight acceleration, managed to get 135 MPH out of the W8 with lots of pedal left, but me nerve ran out at that point, should add this was on a private road, not the highway... It wasn't the Phaeton, just the W8, although I'm not sure what difference there was/is, is the Phaeton the 12 cylinder engine ? have to admit I was tempted for the 12 cylinder, but then thought how daft an idea that was...

The W8 was a challenging car, and I loved it, but even though the 9-3 is FWD rather than 4WD I still think this car is one of the best I ever had, might not come near to matching the W8 in a sprint, but as an all round cruiser it's second to none, and leaves most cars in the dust over here, if need be...

Canada Bob.

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

I suddenly feel inspired to rip apart the block heater doily I crocheted a while back and get to work on that diesel fuel cap cover I've been envisioning.

:p

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

LOL

bored ???

:D

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

Hardly! I'm easily amused (Canadian). :)

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

That explains why Canadian women like British men. ;)

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

Hi Bob

I too have been looking for a diesel car but to no avail. People that I know here say it's for 2 reasons. 1. You need a really strong batterry to start a diesel, and the Montreal winter is simply too demandng on battery power eg minus 30 degree mornings.

2. The quality of diesel here is very bad. However I think this is all about to change soon and it will be upgraded to Euro standards.

Judging by the way people are moaning here about fuel prices, I wouldn't be surprised if the nmber of diesel models starts increasing

Jonathan

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

Hello Jonathon...

Re point 1: there's no shortage of batteries in Canada well able to crank a diesel engine, the Saab is a 1.9 engine so no problem turning that over, even in winter. Look at the vehicles that work in arctic conditions, near all of them are diesels, so the problem aint the batteries...

Point 2: I don't know if the average quality of diesel fuel is as bad as folks would like us to think it is in Canada. Looks at the huge investment in the 18 wheelers, and power generators etc, that and at our level VW's seem to run well enough without any problems, so why wouldn't a Saab or a GM or a Ford ? I think if the folks who profit from us getting 25 MPG {oil companies and Governments} put enough doubt in our minds then we'll be less likely to demand diesel cars.

Diesel car engines might not be what the Auto manufacturers want to provide us with, they rev less than petrol engines so there's less engine wear
and they can last twice as long as a petrol engine, {at least}, so if car bodies last longer, and then the engines last twice as long, that must impact car sales ?

As drivers we want to buy fewer cars {for the most part} but as manufacturers they want to sell us more cars...

As far as moaning, that'll soon be groaning when gas hits $1.50 and keeps on rising, but if there's still no diesels on offer what options do you have ?

It's that catch 22 situation, like I said, I'm sure the average American don't even know you could have diesel car ! and the if they did know most wouldn't know that you can get 60 MPG from them, and not a mini car, but a full sized car...

Look at Europe, 40% of the cars on the road are now diesels, and what a turn on it is to see the digital read out showing 60+ MPG at 70 MPH with the engine doing 1700 revs, not 2,800 revs that a petrol engine would be doing...

Canada Bob.

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

Hi Bob

I agree with you. I just had a ford Focus 1.6 (ok it was a petrol) on my trip to the UK the other week. It had way more performance, and more space and practicality, and definitely more economy than my mother in law's cheyv Malibu 3.5V6 does here in Canada. All that from less than half the engine size and half the Co2 emmisions.

My conclusion is that American cars are light years behind their Euro and Japanese counterparts, whether its petrol or diesel engines.

Jonathan

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

Diesel is something we could be using right now, but this "ice that burns" is the future, yet it's a very well kept secret...

Managed to find some info on it at this link...

http://www.fe.doe.gov/programs/oilga...tes/index.html

Imagine 1 litre of this ice produces 160 litres of methane that we could burn at home or in the car etc etc etc...

Canada Bob.

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

Here's an option that I just got from the folks at Saab...

http://www.saabsverige.com/main/SE/s...al_sales.shtml

Bob.

Re: Diesel cars in Canada ?
 

According to a small article in today's Calgary Herald I'll include the link but warn you in advance that it is a subscription only accessible piece.

Honda developing cleanest diesel engine.

The gist of the piece is that Honda has announced it "will begin selling what it says will be the world's cleanest diesel engine in the U.S., Japan, Europe and emerging markets after 2009."

Honda said it "is developing a four-cylinder diesel engine, which it says will have the world's lowest emissions."

Honda also stated that it "had been working on altering diesel engines it sells in Europe to meet U.S. environmental regulations." In addition they are apparently working on a six cylinder diesel as well but didn't state the target market.

Is this perhaps a reason why we don't see too many diesels here in North America. We have more stringent environmental regulations, and thus the European car makers can't import their vehicles without lowering the emissions.

That seems hard to believe but that is what they appear to be saying.

Edit:This appears to be old news that the Calgary Herald is just catching up with. Here is an article from the Green Car Congress website dated May 17th stating basically the same thing.

Cheers
Steve