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-   -   In Denial? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/denial-685308/)

helcat12 Sep 14th 2010 1:01 pm

In Denial?
 
We are experiencing a weird state of affairs with family and friends which I had not forseen. Despite talking (probably at quite boring length and frequency) about our wish to immigrate to Canada and our ongoing plans, including OH actually going on a job-hunting trip in June, quite a few of our loved ones seem to have totally ignored it or failed to take it in.
This meant that in the last fortnight before my OH left for Canada to start work, he was quite upset by these situations that arose;
1) people suddenly getting upset at the last minute, (e.g. his Mum) claiming they didn't realise he was actually going to do it.:blink:
2) people telephoning ( his brother )saying they had been too busy to contact him before but when was he free in August as they would like to see him? (which was when he was already in Canada!)
3) travelling a long way to see people (other brother and family) and then them behaving like he wasn't going anywhere at all and not even mentioning it the whole time we were there, not even to wish him good luck in his new job.
4) Other siblings not even bothering to get in touch or acknowledging that he was going (one of whom has been talking about emigrating to Australia for years but has never done it).
I am confused by all this - OK, it was a short time scale from job offer to leaving, but we told everyone when he was going and we made the effort to visit people, even though we were MAD BUSY trying to sort things out before he left.
It seems mostly OHs family that are like this. Are they in denial? I wouldn't like to think they just don't care.
Anyone else had similar experience?

fledermaus Sep 14th 2010 1:09 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by helcat12 (Post 8847227)
We are experiencing a weird state of affairs with family and friends which I had not forseen. Despite talking (probably at quite boring length and frequency) about our wish to immigrate to Canada and our ongoing plans, including OH actually going on a job-hunting trip in June, quite a few of our loved ones seem to have totally ignored it or failed to take it in.
This meant that in the last fortnight before my OH left for Canada to start work, he was quite upset by these situations that arose;
1) people suddenly getting upset at the last minute, (e.g. his Mum) claiming they didn't realise he was actually going to do it.:blink:
2) people telephoning ( his brother )saying they had been too busy to contact him before but when was he free in August as they would like to see him? (which was when he was already in Canada!)
3) travelling a long way to see people (other brother and family) and then them behaving like he wasn't going anywhere at all and not even mentioning it the whole time we were there, not even to wish him good luck in his new job.
4) Other siblings not even bothering to get in touch or acknowledging that he was going (one of whom has been talking about emigrating to Australia for years but has never done it).
I am confused by all this - OK, it was a short time scale from job offer to leaving, but we told everyone when he was going and we made the effort to visit people, even though we were MAD BUSY trying to sort things out before he left.
It seems mostly OHs family that are like this. Are they in denial? I wouldn't like to think they just don't care.
Anyone else had similar experience?

Yep, sounds familiar.

spaceace Sep 14th 2010 1:11 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
Yup, we had all of my partners family interested in the whole thing, where they constantly brought up the subject.

My family however, were in total denial for 2 years and never uttered a work about the subject until I went to start my job in CA (I went back to the UK shortly after for 3 weeks to sort stuff out)

After packing the container and leaving for good, my lot were very emotional and my dad said "it's different for you, it's an exciting adventure, you're starting a new life, but we are sad because we are loosing you"

el_richo Sep 14th 2010 1:25 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by helcat12 (Post 8847227)
We are experiencing a weird state of affairs with family and friends which I had not forseen. Despite talking (probably at quite boring length and frequency) about our wish to immigrate to Canada and our ongoing plans, including OH actually going on a job-hunting trip in June, quite a few of our loved ones seem to have totally ignored it or failed to take it in.
This meant that in the last fortnight before my OH left for Canada to start work, he was quite upset by these situations that arose;
1) people suddenly getting upset at the last minute, (e.g. his Mum) claiming they didn't realise he was actually going to do it.:blink:
2) people telephoning ( his brother )saying they had been too busy to contact him before but when was he free in August as they would like to see him? (which was when he was already in Canada!)
3) travelling a long way to see people (other brother and family) and then them behaving like he wasn't going anywhere at all and not even mentioning it the whole time we were there, not even to wish him good luck in his new job.
4) Other siblings not even bothering to get in touch or acknowledging that he was going (one of whom has been talking about emigrating to Australia for years but has never done it).
I am confused by all this - OK, it was a short time scale from job offer to leaving, but we told everyone when he was going and we made the effort to visit people, even though we were MAD BUSY trying to sort things out before he left.
It seems mostly OHs family that are like this. Are they in denial? I wouldn't like to think they just don't care.
Anyone else had similar experience?

It's the Kubler-Ross model of grief by the sounds of it :).

You have to look on it as peoples way of dealing with loss. Yes you're only a plane ride away but in reality, the distance is psychologically huge and, to some people, insurmountable.

Some people may even be jealous of your opportunity, but i would assume parents and close family/friends are subconsciously grieving for their loss, which is understandable.

spaceace Sep 14th 2010 1:30 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 8847267)
Some people may even be jealous of your opportunity

Totally agree with that, some even admit it too

dbd33 Sep 14th 2010 1:33 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
Yesterday I spoke to my daughter, a cradle, who had just returned from a job interview in London. She seems set to emigrate early next year and was quite excited.

"What does your mother think of all this?" I asked, as an afterthought.

"It's hard to tell with her. She seems to be ignoring it"

So, denial in the colonies, same here as there.

Oh, and I'm openly jealous.

fledermaus Sep 14th 2010 1:34 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by spaceace (Post 8847246)
Yup, we had all of my partners family interested in the whole thing, where they constantly brought up the subject.

My family however, were in total denial for 2 years and never uttered a work about the subject until I went to start my job in CA (I went back to the UK shortly after for 3 weeks to sort stuff out)

After packing the container and leaving for good, my lot were very emotional and my dad said "it's different for you, it's an exciting adventure, you're starting a new life, but we are sad because we are loosing you"

That sums it up doesn't it. Good for him for saying it

spaceace Sep 14th 2010 1:47 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
yes, and actually thinking about it, I didn't get that until he said it

having skype helps a LOT, and my mum visited within 6 months which has also helped 'frame' where we are living in her own mind.

Its all good :D

John_B Sep 14th 2010 1:54 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by spaceace (Post 8847246)
After packing the container and leaving for good, my lot were very emotional and my dad said "it's different for you, it's an exciting adventure, you're starting a new life, but we are sad because we are loosing you"

When I left my family and friends displayed the full range of emotions, from denial to sadness and even a degree of anger. For myself I still have a lot of guilt and sadness about leaving.

Your line above brought it all flooding back to me. My Dad said almost the exact same thing.

G77 Sep 14th 2010 2:50 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
Sounds very familiar indeed....

Souvy Sep 14th 2010 3:53 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
Let's think.

Mother: Are you doing ths because I'm a bad mother? (she said the same when I got divorced).

Dad: Go for it.

Oldest brother: Go for it.

Middle brother: Expect regular visits from me.

Barman in local pub: See you next weekend.

Me: 'No, you won't. I'm emigrating in the morning'.

helcat12 Sep 14th 2010 4:22 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
Blimey - I didn't realise this would ring true with so many people.
OH's parents, when he basically said, "Well I told you we were planning it and you knew I had gone over and got a job!" replied,
"But **** (other brother) has been talking about it for years and has never done anything about it!"
My OH was quite amazed, as he just doesn't bull***t about anything and he couldn't understand why they would lump him in with his brother's attitude (who complains a lot but never does anything.)
When we made a day to go to see other brother and family, we got there and they literally talked about anything rather than OHs upcoming departure. It got to the point for me where it just seemed so bizarre and obvious that they were avoiding the subject that I just wanted to shout at them! OH was upset and more than a bit confused by their attitude. He wanted to share his excitement with them and also just say goodbye properly.
Maybe they didn't realise that with PR app going through, we need to save as much money as we can and save holidays for when (hopefully) we get approval and then he can use his holidays to come back and help me with the move and we can land together. There is no chance of him 'popping back' to socialise!
Maybe it is upset, I don't know. I don't believe his parents have contacted their son since he has been away, despite me sending them his Skype contact and e-mail address and him telephoning them when he got there.
Actually, friends have been both more enthusiastic and more on the ball with the fast pace things moved after the job offer. Lots of them made time to see us before OH left if they could, or they called and sent cards. Without them, it would have been a quite depressing last few days here for OH, I think.

Howefamily Sep 14th 2010 6:29 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
One of my very best friends has completely dropped me since we got serious about our emigration plans. Originally she was very keen and even said, and I quote, whilst online chat when we were on our recce " oh you can bore me with it all when you get back, you will need the support"
But actually since we got home in June, I have seen her once, she blows me out constantly, without explanation or apology. We used to see each other every week.
I have asked her about it and she says that yes she is pulling away and I find it sad as we are still here and are likely to be for another 6 months. But still, she has no interest in our friendship anymore.

helcat12 Sep 14th 2010 7:06 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by Howefamily (Post 8847934)
One of my very best friends has completely dropped me since we got serious about our emigration plans. Originally she was very keen and even said, and I quote, whilst online chat when we were on our recce " oh you can bore me with it all when you get back, you will need the support"
But actually since we got home in June, I have seen her once, she blows me out constantly, without explanation or apology. We used to see each other every week.
I have asked her about it and she says that yes she is pulling away and I find it sad as we are still here and are likely to be for another 6 months. But still, she has no interest in our friendship anymore.

How sad! Did she expect you not to like it, perhaps and give it up? This thing shows up stuff about people, doesn't it?
Of course, we have encountered lots of people who say, "Well, we thought about it but ..........." insert excuse, as if thinking about it is just as good as actually doing it.
Also, the people who want to see you fail - I met an ex-colleague a few days ago who I had not seen for 6 months and the first thing she said, as a statement , not a question, was, "Oh, so you didn't go to Canada, then!" As soon as I replied that on the contrary, OH had just gone to start work and I expected to follow, she just walked off.
I never expected the OH's family reaction, though.
My Mum is quite well adjusted; she says she will miss us and has had a few tears already, but she says it is important for us to do it while the opportunity is there.

G77 Sep 14th 2010 7:09 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
Emigration is the best way to find out who your true friends are back home - you will find that there are those that make an effort to keep in touch, those that you have to make an effort to keep in touch with and those who don't want anything to do with you anymore.... The latter I would say weren't true friends to begin with!

helcat12 Sep 14th 2010 7:20 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by G77 (Post 8847997)
Emigration is the best way to find out who your true friends are back home - you will find that there are those that make an effort to keep in touch, those that you have to make an effort to keep in touch with and those who don't want anything to do with you anymore.... The latter I would say weren't true friends to begin with!

Luckily, I haven't come across any of the latter over this - geographical separation in this country and having kids (them, not us!) have already weeded out those who were going to fall away already.
I think some of the second category will show up a bit later for us.
On the plus side, some of our less-close friends previously have become much better friends since this has been in the pipeline. Also some of our old friendships have actually been rekindled with people we hadn't seen for a while (due to boring stuff like work etc) as we and they realise that we really don't want to lose touch. So, it has not been all bad for us.

Howefamily Sep 14th 2010 9:08 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by helcat12 (Post 8847993)
How sad! Did she expect you not to like it, perhaps and give it up? This thing shows up stuff about people, doesn't it?
Of course, we have encountered lots of people who say, "Well, we thought about it but ..........." insert excuse, as if thinking about it is just as good as actually doing it.
Also, the people who want to see you fail - I met an ex-colleague a few days ago who I had not seen for 6 months and the first thing she said, as a statement , not a question, was, "Oh, so you didn't go to Canada, then!" As soon as I replied that on the contrary, OH had just gone to start work and I expected to follow, she just walked off.
I never expected the OH's family reaction, though.
My Mum is quite well adjusted; she says she will miss us and has had a few tears already, but she says it is important for us to do it while the opportunity is there.


I think unfortunately thats true British mentality, they cant wait to see you fail.

princess caribou Sep 14th 2010 9:15 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
We've only told our immediate family and a few close friends about our plans and hubby's father didn't react well at all. He said he couldn't see why we would want to go and live somewhere so cold and that he would never come out to see us if we did. He has refused to talk about it since. When we told hubby's sister she went into a rant about how we have now stuffed her plans to go to Australia because who then would look after Dad as they both can't leave him (just to be clear my husband's father is fit and well able to take care of himself) and basically that our applying to move to Canada has ruined her life! We didn't even know she wanted to go to Australia until we told her - but even if we did it wouldn't stop us.
My family on the other hand have already planned their visits and we've not even had our med requests yet!
We so badly want this opportunity to come good for us but I know it's going to be really hard when the reality of it hits our families - and us for that matter.
It's so true about the mentality of people getting a kick out of your failure which is why we're keeping our cards close to our chests at the moment until we know for definite if this is going to happen for us.

Howefamily Sep 14th 2010 9:23 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by princess caribou (Post 8848201)
We've only told our immediate family and a few close friends about our plans and hubby's father didn't react well at all. He said he couldn't see why we would want to go and live somewhere so cold and that he would never come out to see us if we did. He has refused to talk about it since. When we told hubby's sister she went into a rant about how we have now stuffed her plans to go to Australia because who then would look after Dad as they both can't leave him (just to be clear my husband's father is fit and well able to take care of himself) and basically that our applying to move to Canada has ruined her life! We didn't even know she wanted to go to Australia until we told her - but even if we did it wouldn't stop us.
My family on the other hand have already planned their visits and we've not even had our med requests yet!
We so badly want this opportunity to come good for us but I know it's going to be really hard when the reality of it hits our families - and us for that matter.
It's so true about the mentality of people getting a kick out of your failure which is why we're keeping our cards close to our chests at the moment until we know for definite if this is going to happen for us.

Bimey, thats worse than my issue with my dad. You have my full sympathy with that lot. Its one thing to tell yourself that you are doing this for all the right reasons etc etc etc, its quite another to not be affected by their behaviour....

el_richo Sep 14th 2010 9:39 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
Crikey, you lot have retarded friends and family. :blink:

princess caribou Sep 14th 2010 9:39 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by Howefamily (Post 8848213)
Bimey, thats worse than my issue with my dad. You have my full sympathy with that lot. Its one thing to tell yourself that you are doing this for all the right reasons etc etc etc, its quite another to not be affected by their behaviour....

I just feel hurt for my husband that his family can't be supportive of his decision and I hate to say it but I think their reactions show a little bit of selfishness but it's been thrown back at us that we're the selfish ones.
Am sure it will all be ok and if it's not...well then we'll deal with it when it happens.

Oink Sep 14th 2010 9:43 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
The issue is that, your lives change but their lives stay the same, apart from the fact that their grandchildren have been taken away from them. They also probably can't understand why one would leave a perfectly good country, a country where you intimately understand and thus can easily navigate the culture to move to one where you don't and can't.

el_richo Sep 14th 2010 9:46 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by princess caribou (Post 8848241)
I just feel hurt for my husband that his family can't be supportive of his decision and I hate to say it but I think their reactions show a little bit of selfishness but it's been thrown back at us that we're the selfish ones.
Am sure it will all be ok and if it's not...well then we'll deal with it when it happens.

But you are selfish. You're emigrating for you (family unit), not anybody else. Everybody in this kind of situation is being selfish and it's very natural.

One thing i would be curious about is how immigrants on this forum in this situation react if their children decide, in many years to come, to emigrate to another continent. They may deal with it slightly differently than their family/friends but i very much doubt many would take it lying down, leaving them to grow old alone in the harsh wilds of Nova Scotia ;)

Edited to add: I'm not following Oink around, honest :o

princess caribou Sep 14th 2010 9:49 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 8848250)
The issue is that, your lives change but their lives stay the same, apart from the fact that their grandchildren have been taken away from them. They also probably can't understand why one would leave a perfectly good country, a country where you intimately understand and thus can easily navigate the culture to move to one where you don't and can't.

Well get this for irony - my husbands father is himself an immigrant to the UK!

Oink Sep 14th 2010 9:51 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 8848256)
But you are selfish. You're emigrating for you (family unit), not anybody else. Everybody in this kind of situation is being selfish and it's very natural.

One thing i would be curious about is how immigrants on this forum in this situation react if their children decide, in many years to come, to emigrate to another continent. They may deal with it slightly differently than their family/friends but i very much doubt many would take it lying down, leaving them to grow old alone in the harsh wilds of Nova Scotia ;)

Edited to add: I'm not following Oink around, honest :o

I think there was someone on here making that point. They were furious that their child went off to live back in London leaving them on their own in BC.

Oink Sep 14th 2010 9:52 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by princess caribou (Post 8848261)
Well get this for irony - my husbands father is himself an immigrant to the UK!

I suspect he moved from a poorer country to a richer one, not the other way round.

el_richo Sep 14th 2010 9:54 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 8848266)
I think there was someone on here making that point. They were furious that their child went off to live back in London leaving them on their own in BC.

Ha, that might have been a receptionist in Vancouver i was talking to the other week. Nearly in tears because her child was moving to London, UK, and vowed she's trying everything to stop her :thumbsup:

Brilliant.

Oink Sep 14th 2010 10:03 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 8848275)
Ha, that might have been a receptionist in Vancouver i was talking to the other week. Nearly in tears because her child was moving to London, UK, and vowed she's trying everything to stop her :thumbsup:

Brilliant.

Yeah that was it. Ironic but sad. Life makes hypocrites of us all.

el_richo Sep 14th 2010 10:11 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 8848291)
Yeah that was it. Ironic but sad.

It was sad. She was absolutely gutted. Still, at least they gave the kid the opportunities British immigrants in Canada strive for. They gave the kid the opportunity to live and work in the UK and be closer to their family and friends, so that was nice of them.

Hopefully the next time i pop to the mums place of work, she hasn't moved into a caravan and living in a field in Kent with her incontinent dogs to be closer to her daughter.

Oink Sep 14th 2010 10:15 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by el_richo (Post 8848308)
It was sad. She was absolutely gutted. Still, at least they gave the kid the opportunities British immigrants in Canada strive for. They gave the kid the opportunity to live and work in the UK and be closer to their family and friends, so that was nice of them.

Hopefully the next time i pop to the mums place of work, she hasn't moved into a caravan and living in a field in Kent with her incontinent dogs to be closer to her daughter.

Next time you see her, tell her that's the UK is only a plane ride away and that she'll at least see her grandchildren twice before she dies.

Alan2005 Sep 14th 2010 10:20 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 8848291)
Life makes hypocrites of us all.

Some of us are just born that way.

Oink Sep 14th 2010 10:26 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by Alan2005 (Post 8848344)
Some of us are just born that way.

"Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains."

nikki dreaming Sep 14th 2010 11:02 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
very familiar here too, dreaded bring up the "C" word:rolleyes: wasnt talked about for months more or less right up until we left, denial stage for sure that we were actually going.

Since moving has taken time but since some of the family have visited that we had the issues with it has been fine, still find we dont talk as much to other people and with closer friends/family think a lot of this is still them getting over the fact we have gone and its too much for them to be in touch, hopefully this will improve with time.

Like others have said, I believe as far as friends, this is a true test of good friendships:thumbup:

emigration all round is not for the faint hearted:eek::rofl:

helcat12 Sep 15th 2010 12:06 am

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by Oink (Post 8848250)
The issue is that, your lives change but their lives stay the same, apart from the fact that their grandchildren have been taken away from them.

Easy in that respect for us - haven't go any to take away or worry about not being happy and then wanting to come back. Just us two.

robert_masters Sep 15th 2010 10:52 am

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by Howefamily (Post 8847934)
One of my very best friends has completely dropped me since we got serious about our emigration plans. Originally she was very keen and even said, and I quote, whilst online chat when we were on our recce " oh you can bore me with it all when you get back, you will need the support"
But actually since we got home in June, I have seen her once, she blows me out constantly, without explanation or apology. We used to see each other every week.
I have asked her about it and she says that yes she is pulling away and I find it sad as we are still here and are likely to be for another 6 months. But still, she has no interest in our friendship anymore.

Hi

Not much of a friend then, true friends stick by!!

Angela

Oink Sep 15th 2010 1:44 pm

Re: In Denial?
 

Originally Posted by robert_masters (Post 8849700)
Hi

Not much of a friend then, true friends stick by!!

Angela

That's a little unfair. I might be a little pissed off if my mate buggered off thousands of miles to the middle of nowhere.

reggiedh Sep 15th 2010 2:07 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
[QUOTE=spaceace;8847246]Yup, we had all of my partners family interested in the whole thing, where they constantly brought up the subject.

My family however, were in total denial for 2 years and never uttered a work about the subject until I went to start my job in CA (I went back to the UK shortly after for 3 weeks to sort stuff out)

After packing the container and leaving for good, my lot were very emotional and my dad said "it's different for you, it's an exciting adventure, you're starting a new life, but we are sad because we are loosing you"[/QUOTE

I said the same to my 19 year old as he left on Monday for a year off.

Oink Sep 15th 2010 2:28 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
[QUOTE=reggiedh;8850162]

Originally Posted by spaceace (Post 8847246)
Yup, we had all of my partners family interested in the whole thing, where they constantly brought up the subject.

My family however, were in total denial for 2 years and never uttered a work about the subject until I went to start my job in CA (I went back to the UK shortly after for 3 weeks to sort stuff out)

After packing the container and leaving for good, my lot were very emotional and my dad said "it's different for you, it's an exciting adventure, you're starting a new life, but we are sad because we are loosing you"[/QUOTE

I said the same to my 19 year old as he left on Monday for a year off.

Do you think he'll ever come back?

helcat12 Sep 15th 2010 4:12 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
[QUOTE=Oink;8850214]

Originally Posted by reggiedh (Post 8850162)

Do you think he'll ever come back?

Maybe just "for 3 weeks to sort stuff out".
That's the trouble with being a parent - your children do to you what you did to your parents!
What goes around, comes around.

ninaDGBCA Sep 15th 2010 5:41 pm

Re: In Denial?
 
We got mixed responses. from "great, we'll defo come and visit", "good you actually do it and don't just talk about like others" to "if you think you can't raise your kids in the UK then go" (which we never said, we just said we'd have better opportunities and life in Canada) and my husbands brother just totally ignoring it.
I guess some are jealous, some sad, some don't care, some feel like you moving to a"better life" makes there staying a "worse one" and nobody likes that and some are happy.
Wait a few months/years some will get used to and some won't but at least you'll know then who genuinely wants YOU to be happy and succeed.
My brother in law just (after almost half a year) said he was thinkink of maybe coming over next year. If he does I don't know but at least he mentioned it at last.
Heads up!!!!!!!!! You are not alone :D


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