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Decided not to go

Decided not to go

Old Nov 27th 2004, 11:10 pm
  #136  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by JAJ
Australia also seems to be more advanced in the whole area of recognising foreign credentials, although it does vary by profession and more work needs to be done.
http://aei.dest.gov.au/AEI/Qualifica...on/default.htm

Jeremy
But like you said, when Australia doesn't recognize someone's credentials, then they can't immigrate. Whereas, in Canada, they may be able to do so even if their credentials aren't recognized. Perhaps that's one reason why Canada accepts about twice as many immigrants per year as Australia.
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Old Nov 27th 2004, 11:48 pm
  #137  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

So anyway this thread is pretty exhausted so I'm gonna try and inject a new lease of life into it and ask the question:

Do you find recruitment agencies as nauseating as I do??

Do you think that they actually add to the problem being discussed here??
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Old Nov 28th 2004, 12:07 am
  #138  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
But like you said, when Australia doesn't recognize someone's credentials, then they can't immigrate.
In some circumstances it's still possible to immigrate on a skilled basis, but it's certainly a lot harder.


Whereas, in Canada, they may be able to do so even if their credentials aren't recognized. Perhaps that's one reason why Canada accepts about twice as many immigrants per year as Australia.
But what's the point of accepting 'skilled' migrants who end up driving taxis?

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Old Nov 28th 2004, 1:29 am
  #139  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by indybrit
So anyway this thread is pretty exhausted so I'm gonna try and inject a new lease of life into it and ask the question:

Do you find recruitment agencies as nauseating as I do??

Do you think that they actually add to the problem being discussed here??
in one word: YES!!!

but then to be fair, not all recruitment agents are complete f***wits... (can you tell i like recruitment agents??)

my husband was dealing with an agency that kept him running around for weeks on end chasing his references. even though he had standard uk references (stating when he worked for the companies and whether his work was satisfactory etc) all very good references. but this agency wanted detailed questions answered and couldnt divulge them because of company policy?!? in the end, he got a job through another agency who accepted his references and didnt give him the whole 'you need canadain experience' schpiel...

but agencies like that are very hard to find... anywhere!
 
Old Nov 28th 2004, 1:57 am
  #140  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by JAJ
In some circumstances it's still possible to immigrate on a skilled basis, but it's certainly a lot harder.
It would be interesting to compare the ratio of those accepted as immigrants to the number of applicants for the two countries. Perhaps Australia is simply more selective (and consistent) right from the start of the immigration process.

At any rate, Canada ought to follow Australia's fine example. If you permit someone to work in the country, then Governments should facilitate their integration into the workforce. The main responsibility lies with the Provincial Governments in Canada since they have the ultimate power over licensure of the professions and occupations. They have to work with the Feds to mold a more consistent/logical immigration policy.

But what's the point of accepting 'skilled' migrants who end up driving taxis?
Jeremy
I agree, it makes little sense to award immigration points for credentials that will never be recognized by the licensing bodies - but I didn't make the rules.
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Old Nov 28th 2004, 3:21 am
  #141  
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Question Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
It would be interesting to compare the ratio of those accepted as immigrants to the number of applicants for the two countries. Perhaps Australia is simply more selective (and consistent) right from the start of the immigration process.

At any rate, Canada ought to follow Australia's fine example. If you permit someone to work in the country, then Governments should facilitate their integration into the workforce. The main responsibility lies with the Provincial Governments in Canada since they have the ultimate power over licensure of the professions and occupations. They have to work with the Feds to mold a more consistent/logical immigration policy.



I agree, it makes little sense to award immigration points for credentials that will never be recognized by the licensing bodies - but I didn't make the rules.
======================================
sorry to but in here but>>>>>>>>

dont you all think that the bottom line is a bit "buyer beware" if you are moving half way round the world wouldnt you check your exams count first???
we visited sask and met a couple of companies and emailed people in my husbands trade and we found in sask you dont need a red seal in alberta you do, some companies will take you on while sit exams others expected him to do them before applying
we found trade bodies not very helpful they didnt return calls but when the immigration guy in sask emailed them they did !
he has had to "prove" himself all over again , the terminology is different, standards vary and he had to survive a 3 mth trial period with little support



as for recruitment agencies , i have been a very successful recruitment consultant for 5 yrs but i am a softy and take on part qualified and difficult cases , most of my colleagues wont , we are on commission and they tend to be a hard nosed bunch, also i think you are often better applying to employers yourself , most agencies just do the research you should do and contact companies to find jobs , so why incur your prospective a fee of 20% of your salary and make your self less attractive?

sorry to sound cynical
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Old Nov 28th 2004, 4:30 pm
  #142  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
It would be interesting to compare the ratio of those accepted as immigrants to the number of applicants for the two countries. Perhaps Australia is simply more selective (and consistent) right from the start of the immigration process.
That wouldn't in itself give the answer because in Australia, if you can't get your skills assessed by a recognised body, you can't even *apply* for skilled migration.

This cuts out a lot of people before they even submit applications to the Australian immigration authority. This makes for a much smoother processing system than the mess in most CIC offices - even more so when one considers that Australian skilled processing is centralised in one global centre in Adelaide.

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Old Nov 28th 2004, 7:12 pm
  #143  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by JAJ
That wouldn't in itself give the answer because in Australia, if you can't get your skills assessed by a recognised body, you can't even *apply* for skilled migration.

This cuts out a lot of people before they even submit applications to the Australian immigration authority. This makes for a much smoother processing system than the mess in most CIC offices - even more so when one considers that Australian skilled processing is centralised in one global centre in Adelaide.

Jeremy
sounds like they have the right idea in Australia I cant imagine anything more horrific than thinking you will get a job and then having what mrs liftman has had happen , what a terrible waste of peoples money and stress for the family
i think they have been quite polite about it really but at the end of the day policitcians dont care about the indidividual do they so its up to us to do what we can to safegaurd ourselves before moving , acccepting of course the goal posts can always be moved later by and employer anyway
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Old Nov 30th 2004, 1:05 pm
  #144  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

[QUOTE=discouraged]Why is it so unreasonable as a professional person to expect to get what you want straight away, if you're good enough? Professional Canadians coming to the UK are given every opportunity to do so. They certainly aren't expected to jump through hoops to earn the privilege of making a living at what they are qualified to do.]

Er, no, Canadians do not get every chance and we do have to jump through hoops. In fact, it is practically impossible for a non-EU citizen to get into the UK unless she or he can take employment in a sector with a skills shortage (or is claiming asylum, refugee status, etc.). Believe me, I am currently a recruitment consultant in the UK, and I know the routes for entry like the back of my hand.

I am also a Canadian who came to the UK with a very good first degree, and Bachelor of Education degree, and the better part of a Masters degree in the subject I had chosen to teach.

The teacher shortage in the UK was so severe at the time of my application that candidates were being lured out of trade industries and being given 6K to take a Post Graduate Certificate in Teaching, and they did not need to be university graduates. A proper degree in Education exceeds a UK PgCert in Education by quite a stretch, and still I was viewed as being not on par with people who had never even considered teaching before the incentives were offered. I was told I would have to undergo a specialised programme and get myself sponsored by a willing school (which I would have to locate and contact myself).

I won't go on at length, but I was pretty insulted and since I was married to a Brit, I had the luxury of being able to find a job in another field when my permission to remain came through.

A lot has been said about Canada and its protectionist policies, but the same can be said of many other nations, the UK included. In my current position, I am required to ascertain AND PROVE that there is no candidate in the UK (and now, probably the EU as well) who is sufficently qualified to take a job before I can consider a non UK applicant.

As a side note, the number of Canadians I have had trying to gain employment through my agency in the last five years can be counted on one hand. The number of Australians, and to a lesser extent, New Zealanders, has been in the hundreds, which suggests to me that most Canadians appreciate that the UK doesn't owe them anything, including opportunities.

Last edited by KimS; Nov 30th 2004 at 1:11 pm.
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Old Nov 30th 2004, 1:43 pm
  #145  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

This UK/Canada job issue amonst other things, is mostly the fault of the provincial govts, and our own UK govt. Over here, every province sets their own rules, and that makes it difficult sometimes for ou rules to fall into place here.

A good example is the driver's licence thing, Canadians have been able to swap their licence in the UK for years now, and up to a point here, quebec was the only province that will do that.

March this year, our UK govt finally got their fingers out, and signed an accord with the Ontario govt, to honour a uk licence here. So far, only 4 provinces are willing to swap a uk licence for theirs, others like BC, are not willing to do that yet.

In the UK, we have nurses arriving from the phillipines, and starting work straight away. Am sure it will happen here eventually, but it's going to take a long time, even though we are crying out for doctors here, we were lucky enough to sign up with a GP a few months ago.
 
Old Nov 30th 2004, 1:46 pm
  #146  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by the-smiths
Canadians have been able to swap their licence in the UK for years now
But only fo an automatic licence, unless they can prove that they took the test in a car with manual transmission (or they take and pass the test). That's why we have an automatic car here!
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Old Nov 30th 2004, 2:52 pm
  #147  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

[QUOTE=the-smiths]This UK/Canada job issue amonst other things, is mostly the fault of the provincial govts, and our own UK govt. Over here, every province sets their own rules, and that makes it difficult sometimes for ou rules to fall into place here.

A good example is the driver's licence thing, Canadians have been able to swap their licence in the UK for years now, and up to a point here, quebec was the only province that will do that.]QUOTE]

I'm not sure if I am reading you correctly, but are you saying a Canadian driving licence is a matter of a simple transfer in the UK? I was told my Canadian licence was valid for six months, and then I would have to sit a UK driving exam.
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Old Nov 30th 2004, 2:54 pm
  #148  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

[QUOTE=KimS]
Originally Posted by the-smiths
This UK/Canada job issue amonst other things, is mostly the fault of the provincial govts, and our own UK govt. Over here, every province sets their own rules, and that makes it difficult sometimes for ou rules to fall into place here.

A good example is the driver's licence thing, Canadians have been able to swap their licence in the UK for years now, and up to a point here, quebec was the only province that will do that.]QUOTE]

I'm not sure if I am reading you correctly, but are you saying a Canadian driving licence is a matter of a simple transfer in the UK? I was told my Canadian licence was valid for six months, and then I would have to sit a UK driving exam.
I think it's valid for 6 months and then you have to switch to a UK license, if you have a Canadian license for automatic, you will get a UK license for automatic only, unless you pass a test. If you have a manual Canadian license, you can trade it in for a full UK license... I think
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Old Nov 30th 2004, 2:55 pm
  #149  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by KimS
(and now, probably the EU as well)
That does give you 454.7m people to choose from. I realise that obviously not everyone would be suited for a given job so that the actual pool of people would be smaller.

http://www.religiousconsultation.org...EU_nations.htm
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Old Nov 30th 2004, 3:24 pm
  #150  
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Talking Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by SirTainly
That does give you 454.7m people to choose from. I realise that obviously not everyone would be suited for a given job so that the actual pool of people would be smaller.

http://www.religiousconsultation.org...EU_nations.htm
I take your point to mean (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that because the UK has a much larger pool to draw from, it stands to reason that non-UK/EU job seekers are unlikely to get a look-in, and that's a fair point.

What I see in my job is scores of newly-minted UK graduates being forced to compete with scores of EU graduates for UK jobs, and experienced UK workers losing in the job stakes to recently-arrived Eastern Europeans who are willing to do anything in order to stay in the UK. Canada doesn't have the option of thousands of skilled migrants like the UK at the moment (patently its own fault), but we do have high unemployment in some places (the Maritimes in particular). I think much of this stonewalling is thrown up so the locals first crack at anything available, and seeing it from this side of the drink, I can *almost* understand it. (I'm not saying that's ethically right, particularly if there are genuine skills shortages which can only be met through outside recruitment of people like the Liftmans.)

Not meaning to be antagonistic: just sayin'!
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