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Decided not to go

Decided not to go

Old Nov 21st 2004, 9:37 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by ray1968
The recognised Canadian University degree bit is a bit misleading , if you can get your transcripts from your UK uni converted via a Canadian Uni , that will do just as well. What they are trying to stop is those folks who may have got one of those Micky Mouse online university degrees from the US or degrees from countries where Universities are not up to par with Western ones.
Ray, I do understand what you're saying here but speaking personally as someone who's been in this situation before, many recruiters stick literally to the requirements as spelt out to them by the prospective employers. Why????.....because the vast majority of recruiters have absolutley no clue as to the industry they are recruiting for. They often ask candidates the most stupid questions which clearly demonstrates a lack of knowledge. Trust me on this one Ray, a lot of recruiters are total idiots.

Also, this does not address the issue of "Must be a Canadian Citizen". This is looking more and more like grounds for discrimination and it is very dicouraging to see IBM as one of the offenders.

Last edited by indybrit; Nov 21st 2004 at 9:42 pm.
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Old Nov 21st 2004, 10:35 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Mr and Mrs Lifty

Like most guys on this forum, I have followed your dilema with the NS authorities from the very beginning.
It is totally shite that you were treated this way in the first place.

What is more shite about this whole senario, is that you have taken the decision not to pursue your dream move to NS.

I applaud your grit, determination, honesty, integrity, frankness, to the folks who have followed your story, all to be rubbished by the authorities in Nova Scotia.

All I can say is that these pompus, clueless, a**holes will have lost, potentially two great employees.

I fully understand your financial predicament. I have just added thousands of pounds on to my mortgage to finance the families move to Vancouver.
Will it work out !!!!!!!!! WHO THE **** KNOWS !!!!!!!!!!!
It is a gamble all of the family is willing to take.

I would seriously look at other areas of Canada, if NS does not want to recognize your qualifications, maybe someone else will. WHO KNOWS, you can only try !!!!!!!

I can only hope that whatever decision you decide to take, that we all know it will be the best one for you and Mrs Lifty and the family

All the best and please keep us informed of any impending moves

Eddie AKA, Voyager about to be stuck in a battle with the BORG, AKA the Canadian Authorities in his quest for permanent residency.
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Old Nov 21st 2004, 10:56 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by indybrit
...Also, this does not address the issue of "Must be a Canadian Citizen". This is looking more and more like grounds for discrimination and it is very dicouraging to see IBM as one of the offenders.
In Canada (unlike in the US), citizenship is not a prohibited ground for discrimination. There is no case to be answered here. Same with the university thing - no case for discrimination there either.

That's not to say I don't find it all very disappointing.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 12:57 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by CalgaryAMC
In Canada (unlike in the US), citizenship is not a prohibited ground for discrimination. There is no case to be answered here. Same with the university thing - no case for discrimination there either.

That's not to say I don't find it all very disappointing.
It is very sad - people dream for years about "a better life" out here - the reality is actually far removed from that in many cases. There are some successes; these are usually where there is money behind the move. If this forum had existed years ago when I made my move....I would not have come. I would have researched and researched some more, my fault that I did not, no one else's. Be cautious, be realistic and listen to those who have already faced this battle. Even if you don't like the "negativity", it is often the truth. The ads you see on TV in the UK are for the tourists. Glorious scenery and wide open spaces do not pay the bills. It does not make up for the absolute boredom you will suffer if you are now stuck at home when you previously had a job and an income of your own. They will not show you the reality of the discrimination that Mr and Mrs Liftman faced before they got here. The one thing to keep in mind is - don't believe the Canadian hype.

Bye.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 2:20 am
  #35  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by ray1968
The recognised Canadian University degree bit is a bit misleading , if you can get your transcripts from your UK uni converted via a Canadian Uni , that will do just as well. What they are trying to stop is those folks who may have got one of those Micky Mouse online university degrees from the US or degrees from countries where Universities are not up to par with Western ones.
It was just on TV about a college in the US that will pass someone if they "put in a good effort" despite the fact they failed the tests.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 2:24 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by indybrit
Ray, I do understand what you're saying here but speaking personally as someone who's been in this situation before, many recruiters stick literally to the requirements as spelt out to them by the prospective employers. Why????.....because the vast majority of recruiters have absolutley no clue as to the industry they are recruiting for. They often ask candidates the most stupid questions which clearly demonstrates a lack of knowledge. Trust me on this one Ray, a lot of recruiters are total idiots.

Also, this does not address the issue of "Must be a Canadian Citizen". This is looking more and more like grounds for discrimination and it is very dicouraging to see IBM as one of the offenders.
It would be informative if you contacted the employers you listed and ask them directly why the requirement for Canadian citizenship.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 2:55 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by indybrit
Ray, I do understand what you're saying here but speaking personally as someone who's been in this situation before, many recruiters stick literally to the requirements as spelt out to them by the prospective employers. Why????.....because the vast majority of recruiters have absolutley no clue as to the industry they are recruiting for. They often ask candidates the most stupid questions which clearly demonstrates a lack of knowledge. Trust me on this one Ray, a lot of recruiters are total idiots.

Also, this does not address the issue of "Must be a Canadian Citizen". This is looking more and more like grounds for discrimination and it is very dicouraging to see IBM as one of the offenders.

The Canadian citizen bit - Never heard any employer except certain Federal ones ask for that ...IBM is based i think in Markham Ontario, if they only recruited citizens I think they'd lose half their staff.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 2:56 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by oceanMDX
It would be informative if you contacted the employers you listed and ask them directly why the requirement for Canadian citizenship.
If you really think that it would make a difference, to actually have those 2 companies explain what the benefit is of a Canadian Citizen versus a permanant resident then yes, I'll contact them and ask the question.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 3:53 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by indybrit
If you really think that it would make a difference, to actually have those 2 companies explain what the benefit is of a Canadian Citizen versus a permanant resident then yes, I'll contact them and ask the question.
Yes, I think it would make a difference if you asked them directly for their thinking on this.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 8:40 am
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Default Re: Decided not to go

To be honest, the problem is not just with immigrants. My brother has a nursing degree from an Alberta University. BUT - all his nursing experience in Canada was in Saskatchewan and Ontario. When he moved back to Alberta, with a Master in Health Admin, he couldn't find work immediately b/c he wasn't licensed with the Alberta Health Authority (and he was born and raised in Alberta!) It eventually got through, but he had a real wait and lots of paperwork to wade through... I think we do need to be better, as Canadians, at recognising the skills people bring into Canada - but we also need to be better at allowing easy transfer of skills and registration between provinces.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 9:57 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Thank you all for your kind words.

We will still visit Canada, but I do feel very sorry for anyone trying to move decent qualifications there from the UK.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 10:27 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Mr. & Mrs. Liftman,

My deepest sympathies on your situation.

I suffered a similar experience last year, when I investigated qualifying as a lawyer in Alberta. The first part, getting "accreditation" i.e. equivalence with the oh-so-superior Canadian law degree, was not the problem. I hit the buffers when I tried to get "articles" with a law firm, in order to fulfill the second part of the requirement for qualification.

Quite simply, despite 7 years' experience as an English solicitor, and being highly qualified in the specialist field in which I was seeking to work in Alberta, NOT ONE FIRM WAS INTERESTED. As soon as they saw "UK" on the application form, that was as far as I got in their so-called recruitment process. I even went over (at my own expense) for an interview with a government department for one of 10 (yes, 10) articling posts. However, according to my rejection letter, there were 10 better candidates than me; all of them, by some incredible coincidence, Canadians straight out of Canadian universities.

The way the whole myth about Canada needing skilled workers from abroad is perpetuated by the authorities reminds me of "The Emperor's New Clothes", and not to put too fine a point on it, is total bollocks. In my experience, certainly where professionals are concerned, Canada is simply too small minded, insular, and protectionist to be worth bothering with. If their skilled workers and professionals are so superior to anything from abroad, why do they even bother with a skilled worker program?

Mr & Mrs Liftman, Canada doesn't deserve you, and the really sad part is that their "I'm all right jack" mentality means they won't give a toss that they have missed out on your talents. Pursue your dreams elsewhere in a country that deserves you, whether it be this one, or one in the southern hemisphere. And thank your lucky stars that you were smart enough to see Canada for what it really is before committing to the nightmare.

My very best wishes for the future.

G.
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Old Nov 22nd 2004, 11:07 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by discouraged
Mr. & Mrs. Liftman,

My deepest sympathies on your situation.


The way the whole myth about Canada needing skilled workers from abroad is perpetuated by the authorities reminds me of "The Emperor's New Clothes", and not to put too fine a point on it, is total bollocks. In my experience, certainly where professionals are concerned, Canada is simply too small minded, insular, and protectionist to be worth bothering with. If their skilled workers and professionals are so superior to anything from abroad, why do they even bother with a skilled worker program?

Mr & Mrs Liftman, Canada doesn't deserve you, and the really sad part is that their "I'm all right jack" mentality means they won't give a toss that they have missed out on your talents. Pursue your dreams elsewhere in a country that deserves you, whether it be this one, or one in the southern hemisphere. And thank your lucky stars that you were smart enough to see Canada for what it really is before committing to the nightmare.

My very best wishes for the future.

G.

Maybe that's a bit of an overgeneralization. Canada is a big place and very diverse.

Expecting to get a desired occupation in a specific location right away narrows the options.

Perhaps a better approach would be to get the desired job (or something close) anywhere and then move to the preferred location later. The workforce is very mobile and relocating is part of the lifestyle.
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Old Nov 23rd 2004, 8:08 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by flashman
Maybe that's a bit of an overgeneralization. Canada is a big place and very diverse.

Expecting to get a desired occupation in a specific location right away narrows the options.

Perhaps a better approach would be to get the desired job (or something close) anywhere and then move to the preferred location later. The workforce is very mobile and relocating is part of the lifestyle.
It's realy not that simple. In order to go for PNP you need to have a job offer that can be substanciated. In order to get the job you have to registered in the particular field in which I work; this applies wherever you are in Canada in my particular case. One authority tells you one thing and then, having taken your cash and raised your hopes, say's you do'nt quite match the criteria. You then take them on and are told hand over more cash and we will see if we can help via a different route. I suspect the outcome will still be that I'm not quite a match.

My husband has found this to be the case for him also. He was told by one person that he would have to deal with in authority 'that we all want our cut'.

Why on earth let qualified people in when they have a very lucrative game going on charging here, charging there and still saying no. Between the regulatory bodies and the immigration service thats quite an income when you think of all the people wanting to immigrate and paying the fees up front, then the number of professions charging to have your qualifications 'assessed', who needs the immigrants at the end of the day, there's always plenty more wanting to emigrate behind us, therefore more income generated - and so it goes on, what a winner for the system. We are the mugs trying to play the game, but the rules keep changing and no one tells us.

We could try applying through the PR route - well we would exceed the points needed, but I do'nt want to flip burgers and my husband does not want to drive a taxi. I wanted to move to Canada for a better life for my family, not destroy us. I have my two sons wellbeing to consider and would not do anything that could be detremental to them, and having an unhappy Mother and Father just making enought to get by is not good enought. My standards are high and whilst I am willing to compromise and train further if necessary I have no intention of working in any old job just for the sake of it. For one I cannot afford to become deskilled in any area of my practice.

In a few years time when the children are grown up perhaps getting by will be O.K., but for now its not, we brought these boys into the world and we
have a duty to do our very best for them, always.

Last edited by mrs. liftman; Nov 23rd 2004 at 8:37 am.
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Old Nov 23rd 2004, 8:31 am
  #45  
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Default Re: Decided not to go

Originally Posted by flashman
Maybe that's a bit of an overgeneralization. Canada is a big place and very diverse.

Expecting to get a desired occupation in a specific location right away narrows the options.

Perhaps a better approach would be to get the desired job (or something close) anywhere and then move to the preferred location later. The workforce is very mobile and relocating is part of the lifestyle.
Why is it so unreasonable as a professional person to expect to get what you want straight away, if you're good enough? Professional Canadians coming to the UK are given every opportunity to do so. They certainly aren't expected to jump through hoops to earn the privilege of making a living at what they are qualified to do.

When you are a member of a profession, and have worked for years and invested thousands of ££££ in qualifying, "something close" is simply not viable. And the system whereby each Canadian province sets its own individual rules and requirements for membership of professional bodies seems almost designed to deter relocation.

All you can ask for in life is a level playing field. The one for foreign professionals wanting to make a living in Canada is anything but. It seems to me that Canada deliberately sets out to humiliate professionals from other countries by making it so difficult to be accepted into its professional bodies that they are forced to wait on tables or do something similarly menial before being allowed to "join the club" and make a proper living. Most professional people don't consider it appropriate to humiliate themselves in this way, so don't bother applying. Despite its weasel words to the contrary, this deterrent effect is exactly what the system is designed to achieve. It is discriminatory.

I therefore have to say that, where professionals from overseas are concerned, your comment that "Canada is a big place and very diverse" is itself a bit of an overgeneralization, to say the least.
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