JBG87

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum. I'm a UK qualified and practicing criminal barrister, employed in the CPS (yes, yes, snark away).

My partner and I have been thinking of moving to Canada for some years; we only stopped looking once I found pupillage and subsequently regular employment.

I've seen the many threads about the arbitrary horrors of the NCA process, so I'm gearing up to starting the process. I'll try not to re-tread that particular path!

I'd be interested to hear more about people's experiences post NCA of anyone with a similar background.

I've a decent 2:1 LLB from a good red brick university and have an MA. I currently spend my life as in the Mags Court doing mostly criminal trial work, as well as a certain amount of what would be considered solicitor work of reviewing cases and the necessary elements of conducting criminal litigation. I have various paralegal experiences pre-qualification both in criminal and other areas (some extradition, some civil though still with a criminal flavour).

It's hard to gauge what the market is like from afar. Anyone familiar with the UK legal market will know crime is dying, particularly the junior criminal bar (hence, in part, my current career choices).

I'd be really interested in any experiences of post NCA in getting articling and subsequently taken on. Any personal experiences of the PPSC (given my background in prosecution work), or information on which areas of Canada have easier articling/post articling opportunities would be very welcome.

Thanks

Steve_

I think crime is dying everywhere in the developed world, I was talking to a cop the other day and I got the impression I had more experience of court procedure than he does and he's been at it for 20 years.

I'm not a lawyer (I'm sure AC will be along shortly, he's a solicitor in Calgary) but if you haven't already figured it out in Canada the Criminal Code is Federal and provincial jurisdiction in criminal law is largely limited under the constitution, section 92(13) iirc, to offences involving property. So speeding offences for example are permitted because a vehicle is property.

Which is obvious and on page 1 I suspect of any criminal law guide for Canada, what is not so obvious is that criminal law at the provincial level is a total shambles. The legislatures are unicameral and the laws are often passed without proper scrutiny, especially the case in Alberta as democracy doesn't really exist at the provincial level. Have a read of Alberta Hansard, it's quite frightening. Very complex and serious laws passed through on the nod, basically.

The ones that are worth looking up are the recent law involving using a phone while driving, where the definitions used are extremely vague, the locksmith licensing law (which note, Saskatchewan uses as definition for its own similar law) which also contains vague language and my own personal favourite is the Body Armour Control Act or whatever it's called, which by my reading makes it illegal to use a garbage can lid to protect yourself from someone throwing tomatoes at you or being in possession of an antique suit of armour.

The driver licence laws are totally inconsistent, comes up on here all the time, for example in BC and Alberta you cannot hold a foreign licence at the same time, but in SK you can, but in Ontario you can only hold a non-US foreign licence.

If you're aiming for a legal career in criminal law here, I'd say your best bet would to try and get a job as a Superior Court judge ASAP. Another idea might be to get a job actually writing the law as legislative counsel.

mandymoochops

My buddy did what you do (prosecutor for cps) hes now a lawyer in calgary! Pm me your details and ill put you in touch. You need 2 more posts to be able to pm though!

dbd33

One of my daughters is a prosecutor for the PPSC, she's young of course, very, very, young, and so has limited experience. Nonetheless, she does drugs. Sometimes other work, but mostly drugs. If you have specific questions I can ask her.

JBG87

Hi Mandy

That would be fantastic thanks! I'll hit the necessary number of posts and send you a PM.

JBG87

Hi dbd33

I'd be really interested to know about the possible progression as an advocate, and the kind of cases you can cover. Over here in the CPS I do a range of summary cases across the range of criminal work but there is virtually no upwards movement without becoming a manager or doing the role of a solicitor.

A lot of CPS work is briefed to eexternal advocates, do you know if it's the same for PPSC?

Thanks

dbd33

I don't know very much about it at all but will ask.

mandymoochops

About as much as me then

dbd33

Well yes, but I enquired (I would have asked but, if you're paying $400/hour you may as well use the posh words).

I quoted JBG87's question and added "I suppose I thought prosecutors would take on more and more complex cases, gradually moving from negotiating pleas bargains for students caught in possession to nailing Prime Ministers for corruption. Is that the case or are the glamorous cases argued by private firms?". I noted that this begs the question of how a prosecutor in one jurisdiction might work in another.

Response follows (slightly edited):

"I'd say it's the opposite situation here and people progress pretty much exactly the way you assumed they would. We hire private firms to try routine cases outside" <the bigger city in that province> "but we take anything really complex, high-profile or with ties to organized crime in house. (Much to the chagrin of the poor sap who gets to spend February trying a grow-op case in" <place deemed to be remote and miserable> ".) There certainly seems to be room to grow as a prosecutor and our office (the regional office, that is) does no solicitor's work whatsoever."

"Of course, as in any work environment, there are those who thrive and those who get left behind. Some people also decline to work on more complex files because they have kids or lives or whatever and aren't inclined to devote themselves to massive, years-long prosecutions involving five wiretaps and a hundred witnesses.

With respect to the begged question - the PPSC ( and likely the Provincial ministries of justice as well) prefers to hire candidates who have Canadian citizenship, so unless your foreign" <redacted suggestion of relationship not in fact existing> "is absurdly over-qualified, he might be at a serious disadvantage without it."

Thanks for asking the question, I found the response interesting as I had assumed prosecutors got to know organized crime figures then switched to defending them; eventually being fabulously rich but with dodgy guests for their brisket dinners. Maybe Maurice Levy is stereotypical but not definitive.

emyrthomas

I know of a few ex-pats now working for both the Defense and Crown in Ottawa, let me know if you still need contact information.

Emyr

SheilaIRL

JBG87 I wonder if you can provide an update on your situation - did you make a move and if so, what was the outcome?

Jerseygirl

The OP hasn't been back to BE for over 6 months.

SheilaIRL

Cheers, sorry I am very new to this forum just joined in the last hour.

Jerseygirl

Welcome to BE. No problem. . You may be best to open a new thread.

SheilaIRL

Cheers, have done that - at least I hope it actually posted

Just browsing the older threads to see if there are any similar ones... this research business is quite labour intensive and it is so hard to know where to begin.