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Crime in Vancouver

Crime in Vancouver

Old Feb 13th 2009, 10:52 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by kiton6 View Post
I know, I lived there.
No science behind the idea then and a dead link to boot.

Last edited by dbd33; Feb 13th 2009 at 11:01 pm.
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 10:59 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by Kiwilass View Post
Really? Is there are right to bear arms in the canadian bill of rights?

That's what I mean by gun culture. The right to defend oneself with a gun/carry the kind of gun which could only be used to kill people.

Hunting? I guess NZ has a gun culture then too. (Necessary, though, to keep pests at bay). That's not what I would consider a gun culture ala the US. And I'm going to go out on a wild and crazy limb here and guess that most gangs aren't carrying around hunting rifles but illegal weapons, machine guns, etc from across the border.
1. There's no Bill of Rights in Canada.

2. Culture isn't a legal construct but how people live. I provided the figures above showing that Canadians live with guns.

3. The kind of gun which can only be used to kill people, such as a machine gun, is illegal to hold in the US. It's only illegal to acquire in Canada. Due to grandfathering there are, in fact, more legally held machine guns in Canada than in the US.

Illegally held guns are, of course, widespread on both sides of the border. In the US they're typically purchased in states where they're legal and transported to ones where they're not. In Canada they're typically stolen from the legal owners.

Canada has lots of guns. According to Michael Moore it has more guns per capita than the US. That's a gun culture and it results in a high rate of death by shooting.
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 1:22 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
No science behind the idea then and a dead link to boot.
Firstly, the link works fine on my computer. So I've no idea why it doesn't work on yours, maybe you should look into it.

Finally, if you took some time to think for a moment and question rather than simply being condescending, I would have spent some more time explaining this. However, your tone really does not give a good reflection on yourself.
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 1:36 am
  #49  
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by kiton6 View Post
Firstly, the link works fine on my computer. So I've no idea why it doesn't work on yours, maybe you should look into it.

Finally, if you took some time to think for a moment and question rather than simply being condescending, I would have spent some more time explaining this. However, your tone really does not give a good reflection on yourself.
Do go ahead, define "random act of violence". Let us know the proportion of murders in Vancouver that were random versus those in Glasgow. (I mention murders because statistics for lesser acts of violence are not at comparable due to differences in definitions of crimes and differences in the propensity of the public to report them).

I'll happily bet that the crime in the link wasn't random but probably a robbery with violence, a mugging, in which case the victim was likely anything but random. Perhaps he was selected for being old, infirm and affluent.

Last edited by dbd33; Feb 14th 2009 at 1:40 am.
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 2:09 am
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
No science behind the idea then and a dead link to boot.
essence of link ;

A PARTIALLY sighted pensioner was attacked by a teenage gang in Glasgow's East End.

The 75-year-old suffered a hand injury and fractured finger when he was targeted by the gang of four - one armed with a knife.

The OAP was walking home between 10.10pm and 10.30pm on Saturday when he was approached by three boys and a teenage girl in Corbett Street, Tollcross.
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One of the youths pulled out a knife and demanded money.

The OAP refused and a scuffle broke out, with the victim's hand being cut by the knife thug.

The gang, aged around 14 to 18, ran off empty-handed towards waste ground at Causewayside Street.

The man is in a stable condition at Glasgow Royal Infirmary

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I'll happily bet that the crime in the link wasn't random but probably a robbery with violence, a mugging, in which case the victim was likely anything but random. Perhaps he was selected for being old, infirm and affluent.
Kinda sums it up
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 4:15 am
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

[QUOTE=James Martindale;7282567][QUOTE=kiton6;7282492]
Originally Posted by James Martindale View Post
All I know is the reason why I would strip Scotland statistic's away from the UK is because of Glasgow and the affect it has.

As the article says "It is the most violent city in the developed word".

Here is another spin:-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle568032.ece

All we need to do now is get the Wales out of our stats:-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...me-728540.html
Seems odd to take scotland out of the stats. It would be like taking the worse province out of canada's stats?? Seems odd.
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 4:25 am
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
1. There's no Bill of Rights in Canada.

2. Culture isn't a legal construct but how people live. I provided the figures above showing that Canadians live with guns.

3. The kind of gun which can only be used to kill people, such as a machine gun, is illegal to hold in the US. It's only illegal to acquire in Canada. Due to grandfathering there are, in fact, more legally held machine guns in Canada than in the US.

Illegally held guns are, of course, widespread on both sides of the border. In the US they're typically purchased in states where they're legal and transported to ones where they're not. In Canada they're typically stolen from the legal owners.

Canada has lots of guns. According to Michael Moore it has more guns per capita than the US. That's a gun culture and it results in a high rate of death by shooting.
Come on man, it not guns that people need to be afraid of its people. Bad guys and guns are a lethal mix - i believe if guns were as prevailant as they are here, the murder rate in the UK would be higher than here.
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 4:39 am
  #53  
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Do go ahead, define "random act of violence". Let us know the proportion of murders in Vancouver that were random versus those in Glasgow. (I mention murders because statistics for lesser acts of violence are not at comparable due to differences in definitions of crimes and differences in the propensity of the public to report them).
If I didn't know better, I'd take that as an admission there's no basis for your constant ridicule of any suggestion that Canada is less violent than the Sudan.

If anything other than murder (a tiny sliver of the violent crime spectrum) is incomparable, a generally non-violent Canada is at least as likely as any other scenario in your book then?

And the only statistic you're willing to base any argument on is the narrow 'murders by gun' now is it? Do the others not support your agenda?

kiton6, it's a fruitless pursuit, this. In fact, I don't know why I... dammit, now I have to put another loonie in the 'don't argue with dbd33' tin.


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Old Feb 14th 2009, 5:18 am
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

[QUOTE=kiton6;7282492][QUOTE=James Martindale;7282444][QUOTE=dboy;7282352]For some reason the stats often take Scotland out of the mix which i don't quite get, their murder rates is higher than Canada ???? The stats show that guns play a big part in the overall murder rate. England has more assault than Canada.

The problem in Glasgow, in comparison to say Vancouver, is that a lot of the violence there is random whereas random acts of violence are not as prevalent in B.C. (yes, bystanders may get hit in shootings between gangs (but it's rare), but the phenomenon of youngsters (neds as we like to call them) attacking complete strangers is pretty prevalent in Glasgow. This is why, despite the gangs, the majority of people still feel safe in Vancouver as they don't feel that two kids will suddenly stop them in the street, ask them a ridiculous question (e.g. "you fought ma cousin?", and then start jumping on their heads. I'm not going to go into the social reasons for these attitudes, but it currently does not exist in Vancouver or, as far as I can see anywhere else in Canada. So the majority of people still feel safe.

And those attitudes that are in Glasgow, are in other cities across the UK.

If you want a Canadian perspective of Glasgow Gangs and the difference between gangs in Canada and gangs in Glasgow then please click on the following link and watch the short documentary by the CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/2006/10/100106_1.html

It raised a few eyebrows in Scotland when it was first shown in Canada and there's certainly a lot more being done recently in Glasgow in order to combat it.[/QUOThE]
T
Thanks for the link. I think this pandemic of 'recreational violence' has always existed in the poorer areas of cities in the UK. Manchester was much the same when i was growing up there. At the end of the day if you go looking for trouble it will find you. I have lost count of the numbers of times I was assaulted living in manchester - you grow up thinking its the norm. I think this article says it all - I'll take vancouver thanks.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ine/article.do

Last edited by dboy; Feb 14th 2009 at 6:09 am.
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 9:39 am
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

[QUOTE=dboy;7283829][QUOTE=James Martindale;7282567]
Originally Posted by kiton6 View Post

Seems odd to take scotland out of the stats. It would be like taking the worse province out of canada's stats?? Seems odd.
Agreed.

I think another poster hit the nail on the head when he said that Scotland has a seperate legal system. On further research apparently in Scotland measures of recording crime are very different aswell so on any research online that I can find Scotland is always done seperately. Even when I tried to get City break downs and so on.

The point is crime really is dependant on where you live in which province or area and what the social circumstances are in that area. Whilst Glasgow is percieved to be full of crime Edinburgh back in 2007 was regarded as the best place to live in the UK based on a variety of variables. It is amazing what a small stretch of motorway can do.

Crime is also crime whether random or planned and therefore I certainly derive no comfort in either.

My car was broken into over the Christmas period, when assessing the damage the notion of it being random or planned did not cross my mind only the cost of repair.

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Old Feb 14th 2009, 9:54 am
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

[QUOTE=dboy;7283891][QUOTE=kiton6;7282492][QUOTE=James Martindale;7282444]
Originally Posted by dboy View Post
For some reason the stats often take Scotland out of the mix which i don't quite get, their murder rates is higher than Canada ???? The stats show that guns play a big part in the overall murder rate. England has more assault than Canada.

The problem in Glasgow, in comparison to say Vancouver, is that a lot of the violence there is random whereas random acts of violence are not as prevalent in B.C. (yes, bystanders may get hit in shootings between gangs (but it's rare), but the phenomenon of youngsters (neds as we like to call them) attacking complete strangers is pretty prevalent in Glasgow. This is why, despite the gangs, the majority of people still feel safe in Vancouver as they don't feel that two kids will suddenly stop them in the street, ask them a ridiculous question (e.g. "you fought ma cousin?", and then start jumping on their heads. I'm not going to go into the social reasons for these attitudes, but it currently does not exist in Vancouver or, as far as I can see anywhere else in Canada. So the majority of people still feel safe.

And those attitudes that are in Glasgow, are in other cities across the UK.

If you want a Canadian perspective of Glasgow Gangs and the difference between gangs in Canada and gangs in Glasgow then please click on the following link and watch the short documentary by the CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/2006/10/100106_1.html

It raised a few eyebrows in Scotland when it was first shown in Canada and there's certainly a lot more being done recently in Glasgow in order to combat it.[/QUOThE]
T
Thanks for the link. I think this pandemic of 'recreational violence' has always existed in the poorer areas of cities in the UK. Manchester was much the same when i was growing up there. At the end of the day if you go looking for trouble it will find you. I have lost count of the numbers of times I was assaulted living in manchester - you grow up thinking its the norm. I think this article says it all - I'll take vancouver thanks.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ine/article.do
Agreed.

The outskirts of Manchester & Liverpool are particularly deprived and seedy with something in the water that makes the youth's in large volumes out of control.

Vancouver is very safe, hense why it is regarded as one of the top cities in the world to live (it's certainly not for the night life!). But I will stand my first post and say that I still feel safer in Toronto than in Vancouver.
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 4:23 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

[QUOTE=James Martindale;7284333][QUOTE=dboy;7283891][QUOTE=kiton6;7282492]
Originally Posted by James Martindale View Post
Agreed.

The outskirts of Manchester & Liverpool are particularly deprived and seedy with something in the water that makes the youth's in large volumes out of control.

Vancouver is very safe, hense why it is regarded has one of the top cities in the world to live (it's certainly not for the night life!). But I will stand my first post and say that I still feel safer in Toronto than in Vancouver.
You are spot on James, this is the point that I was trying to make. As for Brits that have not experienced the impoverished side of British inner cities, they probably cant understand.

Guns are always a concern, we watch the news, say , oh my, its all gone to the dogs, then we go about our day to day lives without much more thought to it. The issue of troubled youth is very much more in your face and has more of an impact on your feelings of safety. I was a beat cop for about 4 years and have never experienced the youth problem like in the uk, not to say there are n't troubled youth here, there are, but not packs of them in hoodies at the end of your street like in the UK.

Thank God that guns are hard to come by in Glasgow or anywhere else in the UK for that matter.

Vancouver is a safe city - the guns are a major concern I agree- but the chances of any of us being shot are slim to none - well i might since i deal with these thugs on a daily basis but the rest of you will be fine.

Last edited by dboy; Feb 14th 2009 at 4:34 pm.
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 4:39 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

[QUOTE=James Martindale;7284333][QUOTE=dboy;7283891][QUOTE=kiton6;7282492]
Originally Posted by James Martindale View Post
Agreed.

The outskirts of Manchester & Liverpool are particularly deprived and seedy with something in the water that makes the youth's in large volumes out of control.

Vancouver is very safe, hense why it is regarded as one of the top cities in the world to live (it's certainly not for the night life!). But I will stand my first post and say that I still feel safer in Toronto than in Vancouver.
I've only spent a week in Toronto and I have to say I liked it and never once felt threatened. I was chatting to a couple of the Metro Toronto Cops standing outside a nightclub at closing time. They get paid overtime to do just that - great idea (plus not bad at about $80 an hour).

I thought the night life was incredible, they had the neatest outdoors bars on the roofs of buildings, it felt like Miami, plus it was 40 degrees and very humid.
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 10:39 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
1. There's no Bill of Rights in Canada.

2. Culture isn't a legal construct but how people live. I provided the figures above showing that Canadians live with guns.

3. The kind of gun which can only be used to kill people, such as a machine gun, is illegal to hold in the US. It's only illegal to acquire in Canada. Due to grandfathering there are, in fact, more legally held machine guns in Canada than in the US.

Illegally held guns are, of course, widespread on both sides of the border. In the US they're typically purchased in states where they're legal and transported to ones where they're not. In Canada they're typically stolen from the legal owners.

Canada has lots of guns. According to Michael Moore it has more guns per capita than the US. That's a gun culture and it results in a high rate of death by shooting.
1. Yes, there is actually from 1960. Followed by a charter of rights and freedoms.

2. Huh? So you're saying the US constitution (right to bear arms, etc) hasn't effected the culture and the development of the country, as Canada's charter has affected it? Come ooooonnn now.

3. ichigan used to not allow ownership of NFA firearms, though Attorney General Mike Cox has written an Attorney General's Opinion[116] that allows for fully automatic machine guns to be legally transferable to Michigan residents who comply with federal laws. Suppressors (silencers) however are still illegal and non-transferable in Michigan.

Oh, dear, looks like you can!
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Old Feb 14th 2009, 11:18 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by Kiwilass View Post
1. Yes, there is actually from 1960. Followed by a charter of rights and freedoms.

2. Huh? So you're saying the US constitution (right to bear arms, etc) hasn't effected the culture and the development of the country, as Canada's charter has affected it? Come ooooonnn now.

3. ichigan used to not allow ownership of NFA firearms, though Attorney General Mike Cox has written an Attorney General's Opinion[116] that allows for fully automatic machine guns to be legally transferable to Michigan residents who comply with federal laws. Suppressors (silencers) however are still illegal and non-transferable in Michigan.

Oh, dear, looks like you can!
Agreed.

Bottom line Canada has a gun culture.
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