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Crime in Vancouver

Crime in Vancouver

Old Feb 13th 2009, 2:56 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by James Martindale View Post
I must admit I have always felt alot safer in Toronto than in Vancouver. Less dead beats walking the streets etc......

I think we had a massive debate on crime and crime stats recently in the "Why are People so defensive about Canada" thread. I bet that was not the first one either.

Its not the dead beats that are armed, They are probably more a threat to themselves. However peoples do find this sort of this a problem and probably pre-Olympics some street cleansing may take place.
Vancouver has some of the worst poverty in Canada, which is surprising to visitors blinded by all the touristy blurb.
As someone else posted the shootings are totally random, I do not think the mean streets of Walnut Grove are generally unsafe
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:00 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Just a few points:

1 Criminal Law is a matter for the Federal government. The Provincial government may look like it is passing the buck, but it has no power to impose minimum sentences.

2 Mandatory minimum sentences are a really, really bad idea. A sentence that is tough enough to discourage a hardened criminal will amount to inhumane treatment of the small fry who are inevitably the ones who get caught and prosecuted.

3 There has never been a credible study, anytime, anywhere, that suggests that increasing the severity of punishment reduces crime.

4 Five years or ten years - who cares? Nobody wants to do fives years. What will reduce criminal activity is the fear of being caught. More, and more effective, policing will help, as will the public losing the notion that "grassing up" (ha ha) criminals is wrong.

5 Drug consumption in Canada is irrelevant to the problem. The big bucks (and the handguns) comes from selling BC Bud in the States.

6 Prohibition doesn't work when the public sees the prohibited substance to be benign. The Americans should know it, I am pretty sure the Canadian government knows it. The simple solution is to legalize and regulate the production and distribution of marijuana. Unfortunately the Americans will make sure it never happens.
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:17 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I decided last night not to bother but since you ask: The murder rate is higher in Canada. Especially the rate of shooting is higher in Canada. The Canadian economy and, especially that of BC, depends on the production of marginally illegal drugs. Posters in Canada, especially in BC, like to think there's a lack of crime and typically defend their view with two arguments:

- all governments except the Canadian one fudge the crime statistics

- they personally are not dead

One tires of pointing out the weaknesses in these positions.

I see two correlations here:

- countries where drug production is a major industry tend to instability; Columbia, Mexico, Canada

- a high level of drug consumption makes people blissfully oblivious, BC.
Comparing Canada to Mexico and Columbia ??? I think perhaps you have smoked a little too much yourself!
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:25 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by dboy View Post
Comparing Canada to Mexico and Columbia ??? I think perhaps you have smoked a little too much yourself!
I thought you might enjoy that. Nonetheless, where a commodity outside the law makes up a significant volume of trade, a degree of social instability inevitably follows; bunkered oil in Nigeria, Eastern European prostitutes in London, drugs in Canada.

I don't think that's the reason why more people get murdered in Canada than the UK. I think that's just because Canada has a gun culture and the UK does not, more guns = more violent deaths, but I think an economy heavily dependent on an illegal product will tend to produce a violent populace.
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:31 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I decided last night not to bother but since you ask: The murder rate is higher in Canada. Especially the rate of shooting is higher in Canada. The Canadian economy and, especially that of BC, depends on the production of marginally illegal drugs. Posters in Canada, especially in BC, like to think there's a lack of crime and typically defend their view with two arguments:

- all governments except the Canadian one fudge the crime statistics

- they personally are not dead

One tires of pointing out the weaknesses in these positions.

I see two correlations here:

- countries where drug production is a major industry tend to instability; Columbia, Mexico, Canada

- a high level of drug consumption makes people blissfully oblivious, BC.
but I dont take drugs - or smoke em - but then maybe its the passive intake of the those great big doobies when you walk down the street!
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:36 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by The4BellsLondon View Post
but I dont take drugs - or smoke em - but then maybe its the passive intake of the those great big doobies when you walk down the street!

That's my excuse.
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:42 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by JonboyE View Post
Just a few points:

1 Criminal Law is a matter for the Federal government. The Provincial government may look like it is passing the buck, but it has no power to impose minimum sentences.

2 Mandatory minimum sentences are a really, really bad idea. A sentence that is tough enough to discourage a hardened criminal will amount to inhumane treatment of the small fry who are inevitably the ones who get caught and prosecuted.

3 There has never been a credible study, anytime, anywhere, that suggests that increasing the severity of punishment reduces crime.

4 Five years or ten years - who cares? Nobody wants to do fives years. What will reduce criminal activity is the fear of being caught. More, and more effective, policing will help, as will the public losing the notion that "grassing up" (ha ha) criminals is wrong.

5 Drug consumption in Canada is irrelevant to the problem. The big bucks (and the handguns) comes from selling BC Bud in the States.

6 Prohibition doesn't work when the public sees the prohibited substance to be benign. The Americans should know it, I am pretty sure the Canadian government knows it. The simple solution is to legalize and regulate the production and distribution of marijuana. Unfortunately the Americans will make sure it never happens.

I generally agree, but I do think the domestic consumption and acceptance of drugs has led to proliferation of production and the lack of will to change things.
Prohibition is the problem, A relatively small basement can produce thousands of dollars.
one thing that has made it harder for the cops is the growth of smaller gangs, maybe they should have let the HA do do their stuff
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:45 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Canada does not have a gun culture. It just had the misfortune of sharing a border with a gun culture, which has bled over said border.

re: "dead beats", many of them migrate from colder parts of canada. thanks, Toronto! It's easy to feel safe when you're sending your junkies and mentally ill homeless west.

I agree with Jonboy - bud should be decriminalized/legalized. Prohibition doesn't work, obviously.

I still reaaally don't see how Canada is any worse or better than any other western country and I've lived in a few.
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:49 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

3 There has never been a credible study, anytime, anywhere, that suggests that increasing the severity of punishment reduces crime.
You may well be right in terms of deterrent and rehabilitation, in terms of the criminal justice system serving the public, I'd have to disagree.

Long sentences may not reduce the chances of repeat offending, but it is not possible for a person to repeat-offend whilst they are locked up. If they are locked up for seven years, which I believe they could be under existing gun crime law in Canada, that reduces the risk to the populace during that period.

If they are in and out every few months, or immediately bailed, they get an opportunity to re-offend every, erm, few months, and there is some serious serial offending going on; it must be pretty demoralising for the police to know if they go to the trouble of gathering enough evidence for a case to stick they'll have to do the same all over again in the near future.

I believe one of the participants in a shooting last week was convicted of another shooting here only a year or so ago. There is no fear of being caught if when you get caught you're home in time for tea.
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

I'm a cop and should probably keep my mouth shut . Yes we are in a dangerous position right now with all the shootings but overall it's still a safe place.The murder rate is not much different than the UK:

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

For some reason the stats often take Scotland out of the mix which i don't quite get, their murder rates is higher than Canada ???? The stats show that guns play a big part in the overall murder rate. England has more assault than Canada.

http://onepearsallandhisbooks.blogsp...rder-city.html

UK has more drug offences

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-drug-offences

Last edited by dboy; Feb 13th 2009 at 4:07 pm.
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by Kiwilass View Post
Canada does not have a gun culture. It just had the misfortune of sharing a border with a gun culture, which has bled over said border.

re: "dead beats", many of them migrate from colder parts of canada. thanks, Toronto! It's easy to feel safe when you're sending your junkies and mentally ill homeless west.

I agree with Jonboy - bud should be decriminalized/legalized. Prohibition doesn't work, obviously.

I still reaaally don't see how Canada is any worse or better than any other western country and I've lived in a few.

Canada is probably on par with the better parts of Europe etc.
BC has a more noticable weed culture amongst the middle classes here. This tacit acceptance makes it a more widespread issue than just going after a few gangs. The gun culture and big bucks is being fuelled by domestic drug production
The Grow-OP culture is far worse here than in most of Europe.
I have seen former Grow-Ops in ordinary surburban streets
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 4:15 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

What is the violent crime rate in Vancouver? That is violence against 'the person' as they say.

Here in Edmonton north london for the past 12 months Jan 08-Jan 09 it is 15.7 per 1,000 head of population so that would make it 1570 per 100,000 population. The met put things per 1,000 head of population. That includes murders and violence upon the person, not rape but includes domestic. The Greater London wide figure is 23.5 per 1,000 (23,500 per 100,000). I know that it includes at least 8 murders for Edmonton in the last 12 months and 16 in the last 24 months, most of them being teenage boys. The nick name for Edmonton is "Shank Town".

The boys are encouraged to stab a boy from another gang as an initiation in to that particular gang for that area. Tottenham vs Woodgreen and Edmonton VS Tottenham etc etc. I live quite near where all 3 area meet. I love it when Spurs play at home because on the train you can feel safe because all the little teenage boys stay away!!

Roll on Vancouver I think I can handle it!

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Old Feb 13th 2009, 4:16 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by Kiwilass View Post
Canada does not have a gun culture.
Eh? Every house on our block has at least one gun. Hunting deer, turkeys, moose even groundhogs is a major pastime. It may be that, in Vancouver, guns are mainly used for crime but, in Canada as a whole, they're mainly used for hunting.

Check out Figure 1 here

http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/The...unControl.html

for a comparison of the number of guns, legally held guns, in Canada vs. England and Wales.
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 4:27 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

[QUOTE=dboy;7282352]For some reason the stats often take Scotland out of the mix which i don't quite get, their murder rates is higher than Canada ???? The stats show that guns play a big part in the overall murder rate. England has more assault than Canada.[QUOTE]

Probably because Glasgow is super violent!
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Old Feb 13th 2009, 4:29 pm
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Default Re: Crime in Vancouver

Originally Posted by Madwife View Post
What is the violent crime rate in Vancouver? That is violence against 'the person' as they say.

Here in Edmonton north london for the past 12 months Jan 08-Jan 09 it is 15.7 per 1,000 head of population so that would make it 1570 per 100,000 population. The met put things per 1,000 head of population. That includes murders and violence upon the person, not rape but includes domestic. The Greater London wide figure is 23.5 per 1,000 (23,500 per 100,000). I know that it includes at least 8 murders for Edmonton in the last 12 months and 16 in the last 24 months, most of them being teenage boys. The nick name for Edmonton is "Shank Town".

The boys are encouraged to stab a boy from another gang as an initiation in to that particular gang for that area. Tottenham vs Woodgreen and Edmonton VS Tottenham etc etc. I live quite near where all 3 area meet. I love it when Spurs play at home because on the train you can feel safe because all the little teenage boys stay away!!

Roll on Vancouver I think I can handle it!

Madwife
Where do you get your stats from?

I am amazed that Edmonton's figure is better than Greater London's?
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