Garfielduk

Just to put a slightly different slant on this one :

In my twenty odd years of working in various companies I have found that the employees who do not take all their annual leave are not thought any better of than anyone else, in fact they are usually the ones that are taken advantage of; likewise those who take zero days off sick are not treated any better generally than those who take 2 or 3 weeks off, with a few exceptions of course as there are some companies who reward attendance by bonus. Might someone have found the same applies in CANADA.

Judy in Calgary

This varies a lot from one region in Canada to another, from one industry to another, from one company to another, and even from one department to another in the same company.

Alberta's economy is subject to boom and bust cycles. At the moment Alberta is going through an oil boom. Generally speaking it's an employees' market at the moment, all the more so for people who have very specific skill sets that are much in demand. So workers (some more so than others) can afford to thumb their noses at their employers.

But when the last bust happened (and when it happened it lasted for about 20 years), the tables were turned. People who just worked the hours they were supposed to work were the first to be laid off. My husband survived wave after wave of lay offs over a period of ten years. He attributed his longevity at least partly to the fact that he worked like a dog. He worked late nights, he worked weekends, he cancelled vacations that he already had booked, you name it. Eventually even he was laid off during a company buy out, but he had lasted for longer than most of his colleagues.

Quite soon after my husband was laid off, he got another job. The people who hired him had been his colleagues at a previous company, and they specifically cited the fact that they could trust him to "get the job done." That was a code for, "We know you'll do whatever it takes."

People in a workplace have a pretty good idea of whether their colleagues take sick leave for genuine reasons or whether they're just taking advantage of the system. Here in Calgary at least, people resent co-workers who take sick leave for trivial reasons. If the oil industry ever tanks again (and when it does it'll take many other industries down with it), people who are considered not to be pulling their weight will be the first to be booted out.

It's quite common here for job offers to be made subject to a successful pre-employment medical exam. So, even before they hire anyone, many employers screen out people who are at higher risk of being ill.

Another thing that has happened in Calgary is that, even now that the oil boom has returned, the major companies (the oil companies, etc.) have not hired back anything like the number of employees they had before. What they've done is hired a lot of contractors to take up the slack. The contractors can take as much vacation as they like, and they can take as many sick days as they like. But, as long as they're not working, they're not being paid. If the price of oil drops and planned projects are cancelled, the contractors will be dropped like hot cakes.

So, while Calgary generally is not as Dickensian as dbd33's contract IT world, the picture you have painted generally is not true of Calgary either.

dbd33

Just a hint of the Dickensian IT world. This time last week, Good Friday, but not a holiday for us, a client decided in a conference call that they'd like some work done. I did it on the Saturday. Right now I'm on a conference call in the course of which it's been decided that we'll work on Sunday. I can work from home and post while I'm working but still, if I had wanted to go camping or similar, I could not. Perhaps the worst aspect of this business is not being able to plan anything.

startwin

[QUOTE=dbd33;4637945]The average number of vacation days in Canada is 19 (in 2006, it was 21 in 2005). 24% of employed adults in Canada do not usally take all their vacation.

www.vacationdeprivation.com/survey_results.pdf


I cannot recall anyone else at work taking a vacation (and I've been involved with this firm for twenty years) though some people do send their wives and children away in the summer. My "frequent" vacations, averaging a bit less than a week per year, are a constant source of resentment and friction in the workplace.

QUOTE]


You're obviously working for the wrong company! I've never hear of anything so ludicrous. I've worked in Canada for a variety of companies for 34 years, and while some people (no matter which country they are live in) seem to think they have something to prove by not taking vacations, or think they are indispensible, it is normal to take 3 weeks per year, or more depending on length of service. Plus stats. One company I worked at you weren't expected to take vacation in the first year, however.

dbd33

What does length of service have to do with it? If you've worked in the same place for a long time and want to be as valuable to the firm as you were initially then you should take the same amount of vacation. There's always someone waiting who will take less.

startwin

It's rather basic - the longer you work with a company the more your vacation entitlement increases. After 10 years I got 5 weeks. Whereas at 5 years it was 3 weeks. In between it had increased to 4 weeks. Plus stats.

Rich_007

Ya, gotta be flexible and work to meet the expectations of the industry you're in, play by new (Canadian) rules (go learn 'um, peeps).

e.g. Good Friday was a stat for us but we had a management meeting so we gave up 2 hours of oh so precious 'holiday time'. Monday for us was a normal working day, but for some, a day off. Of our commercial customers, some worked Monday, some closed their offices. Residential projects, well, peeps were either at home, on the lake, or out of town. Whatever.

The essence of this is, find the sector/industry/job that works for you, enjoy it, and quit bitching like tired lil' babies. If you want 8000 weeks of vacation go to Oz or stay in the UK, nobody here really cares about the measely nauseous whines of immigrant misfits with their endless complaints about cheese, beer and vacation entitlement.

Rich.

Hudman

Hear Hear
There are certain challenges here which can work in ones favour. For example I realised my employment needs/potential was not going to fit in with the lifestyle I wanted. So decided to do my own thing, end result I am earning 3 times what I would by sitting around moaning about it.
I work approx 40 hours a month and can enjoy my life here.
Same goes for Housing, could not afford where I wanted, travelled around and found somewhere I could.
There should be a list of undeniable truths about BC,
Get the stuff you cant really change.., Rain, High Prices for homes in exclusive areas, lack of Bisto etc.. out of your system.
Concentrate on what is in your power to control.

Rich_007

There can be......if we wish for it
If we build it they will come, but maybe we don't want um to ?

Positive
Cheap real estate prices in some areas -Northern BC, small towns, Kootenays)
Awesome world class ski-ing.
Awesome sea-based leisure opportunities on VI & LM
The best mountain biking in the world (yay) North Shore Nelson Golden Red Mountain Kelowna/Okanagan and Kamloops etc
Lakes & associated leisure (Okanagan/Kootenays/Shushwap)
Awesome weather (Okanagan/BC Interior) with real 4 season lifestyle
Distance from UK.
Diversity in GVA & associated throbbing metropolitan vibes
Slower pace of live (excluding GVA) if desired
Fast 24/7 full on pace of life (if desired)
Distinct and definable BC/lotus eater culture & lifestyle
Focus and attention on green issues/green-orientated region eg Greenpeace
Some of the most progressive and successful native bands in NA
Business/investment friendly government
One of the most important strategic ports in NA (POV)
A region of the world people visit and return in absolute awe.
Plenty of vacation/weekender travel opportunities within region = no need for tiresome long haul vacations
Vacation opps in hawaii/Mexico etc on the doorstep
Cheap Viva Las Vegas Weekends = cheap and very nasty
World class scenery of every type and diversity imaginable.
Tourist-orientated leisure opportunities abound
Growing wine industry (Okanagan based in the main)
Close to US (Seattle/Portland) for vacation/visits
Incomers bringing monetary investment
Distance from global noise/bad things/negativity/troubles
Pioneering legacy/attitude to life "can-do/want-to"
Developing green-orientated regional economy with WA and Oregon

Negative
High real estate prices in some areas (GVA & Okanagan)
Rain & British-style weather (GVA)
Distance from UK (perceived, not real, distance)
Isolated from ROC & Big Bad Federal Goverment thingymajig
Lack of culture in some ways (due to distance from key culture centres)
Some key native issues
Lack of diversity in redneck small towns
Myopic employers, protectionalism, lack of vision, nepotism etc
Growing homelessness, poverty, marginalisation.
Reducing social 'comfort blanket/safety net' for the less fortunate.
Pine beetle devastation.
Higher average cost of living than the ROC.
Lower population density = reduced service level/consumer choice
Drug culture & social issues caused by drug abuse
Close to US (period)
Somewhat crash & burn economy
Swing government mentality
NDP mindset / legacy with well-intended but dismal failure socialist outlook.
Albertans moving in droves bringing their US-style mentality and dumb redneck attitude into BC
Sloppy biased unprofessional media
Off the radar for most bands world tours
Business idiots/lack of professionalism and integrity
Conmen and shiny suited types

Plus yours

Rich

Hudman

NEGATIVE (Sub-Section for New Immigrants)

May open fissures in ones relationships and inner weaknesses of character, which are usually blamed on Canada in various other manifestations.

JKM

My two cents!!!

From personal experience in Northern Ireland / UK most employers I worked for give the statutory minimum holidays. But at the price of vacations we usually ended up staying at home in the rain.
we've found out that its not about how much time you get but how you spend it
Here each year My family and I go down to Florida for a week in Spring,
do a couple of long weekends at a rented cottage over the course of a year and we still have a week to take as it suits we find this adequate.

in any case a lot of people I know get time in Lieu so if you do have to work extra time you don't loose out on vacation time.

Overall the quality of life is what counts not just how many days you do or don't get off on vacation in any given year

Rich_007

A clear reminder for the Canada-seekers. Not money, or salary, or size of Chez Brit, or bling or truck size with shiny mags.

All is everything; friends, opportunities, new activities, adventures, satisfaction and confidecne gained from a successful integration, sharing experiences and helping others. Wealth and happiness not measurable in dollars and cents. It don't pay the bills nor does awesome scenery but makes for a soul bursting full of white shining light & a happy human spirit.

As said before I have wealth beyond mere dollars and cents and that'll do for me thanks very muchski.

Lecture over for today, my leetle Jedi pupae.

Rich.

dbd33

In our business there are no paid vacations. After twenty years of being paid by the hour for hours worked and paying people that way I don't think I could enjoy a paid holiday; it'd feel like cheating. There's certainly no way I could enjoy paying someone else to take a holiday; that'd be like alimony without even the memory of the sex.

My prior question though was "why should someone get more time off just because they've had a job for a while? Is the idea that older people are less needed at the workplace?"

dbd33

Well yes, the downside is that I have no choice but to be at this computer for an hour while dinner cooks. The upside is that the hour's worth USD125 to me.

Rich_007

Empathy for older workers and thus give them more rest time i.e. more vacation ?

Dunno.

Rich.