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Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:16 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by dboy
I doubt its any worse that Manchester? For some odd reason here, government jobs are well paid. Frankly I'm shocked at times what they pay me here as a copper, not to mention benefits (for life) and pension.
This is what probably shapes people's opinions on this forum. I have always said that Canada can be the greatest place in the World if you get a government job, but, at the moment and the foreseeable future, those of us in the engineering/manufacturing sector in Ontario are seeing a completly different picture.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:16 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by Kiwilass
I agree IT has slipped down the scale a lot. I remember when there was a lot of buzz about IT Being the Future, well paid, blah blah blah...and now it seems like it's treated more as glorified admin. But I also think outsourcing has hurt IT and I've noticed, in my return to the workforce after a long haitus, that many admin jobs now require skills of the kind expected of IT peeps not long ago - like desktop publishing, website maintenance, creation of websites, the ability to fix issues with the network etc. So I think administrators are upskilling and taking over some of the areas that used to be seen as IT. Which seems reasonable - it's not rocket science.
That has happened because companies have gotten cheap and (again in the UK at least) don't want to pay 'IT wages' if they can avoid it. It actually makes an internal IT worker's life hell because every idiot who has used red dot and knows their way around facebook now considers themselves to be an IT engineer.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:18 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost
What is certification then if you don't mind me asking?
Going on a course provided by sun, oracle or microsoft (for instance) and getting a qualification to say you can use their products. Lots of dba's have SQL certification for instance.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:19 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by R I C H
So GBP30k for a job that requires a regular degree, most likely needs no management experience or supervisory requirements, isn't a fair wage?

I previously worked for a large games development company, and individuals with advanced skills/experience, managed teams or contributed to the strategic development of the organization got paid considerably more than that . The code monkeys that just followed instruction got paid more than other graduates working in various administrative roles, so I don't think 'IT' jobs were unfairly treated with regard to compensation at all.
And there in lies the other problem. My main issue with IT at the moment is that the wages paid to those who 'manage' either be it Projects or a team of staff are paid a fair amount more than those who do the actual work that keeps things running, despite the fact that most of the IT Managers I have worked with probably couldn't find their own arse with both hands and a massive stick.

The 'code monkeys' as you put it are the ones who do the real work, the work which makes the company money, and the company needs them a hell of a lot more than it does the management types.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:20 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by Kiwilass
Many admin jobs now require skills of the kind expected of IT peeps not long ago - like desktop publishing, website maintenance, creation of websites, the ability to fix issues with the network etc. So I think administrators are upskilling and taking over some of the areas that used to be seen as IT. Which seems reasonable - it's not rocket science. The other thing that hurts IT imo is that so many of the people seem to have no social skills.
Exactly - they're often no longer specialist or unusual skills, so why would employers pay a premium for them?
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:21 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by Alan2005
Going on a course provided by sun, oracle or microsoft (for instance) and getting a qualification to say you can use their products. Lots of dba's have SQL certification for instance.
Fair point, I don't have SQL or Oracle qualifications because, although I manage those databases right now, I don't particularly enjoy it and I wouldn't really like to be a DBA long-term if I could help it.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:23 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by R I C H
Exactly - they're often no longer specialist or unusual skills, so why would employers pay a premium for them?
They're not specialist skills because the likes of red dot have created software to completely bastardise the process so instead of requiring the skills of a web developer, the job can now be done by any admin idiot or 'Business Analyst'.

Whether or not that's necassarily a good thing, I'm not sure, but I think the world could probably make do without it.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:24 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost
And there in lies the other problem. My main issue with IT at the moment is that the wages paid to those who 'manage' either be it Projects or a team of staff are paid a fair amount more than those who do the actual work that keeps things running, despite the fact that most of the IT Managers I have worked with probably couldn't find their own arse with both hands and a massive stick.

The 'code monkeys' as you put it are the ones who do the real work, the work which makes the company money, and the company needs them a hell of a lot more than it does the management types.
There are good and bad employees in all industries. To suggest a manager adds no additional value just shows that type of managers you've worked with, rather than the true worth that someone in that position should bring.

Coding is real work, and management isn't? That's just a dumb statement, IMO.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:24 pm
  #84  
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by R I C H
Exactly - they're often no longer specialist or unusual skills, so why would employers pay a premium for them?
Right. In the beginning everyone was scared sh*tless of computers, so those who had a clue deserved to earn a premium. Now we're over a decade in, and it's become apparent that a lot of IT skills can be easily picked up by anyone with a bit of aptitude, thereby making IT skills less scarce and less well-paid. I believe this trend is only going to continue. There's no conspiracy. *shrug*
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:24 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost
Fair point, I don't have SQL or Oracle qualifications because, although I manage those databases right now, I don't particularly enjoy it and I wouldn't really like to be a DBA long-term if I could help it.
Personally I think certification is a bag of bollocks, but there are those that say it can increase your earning potential.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:25 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by dboy
I doubt its any worse that Manchester? For some odd reason here, government jobs are well paid. Frankly I'm shocked at times what they pay me here as a copper, not to mention benefits (for life) and pension.
Manchester doesn't pay too badly but retains a fairly reasonable cost of living, although I am deeply opposed to the level of council tax in this city since Manchester City Council are at best incompetent and at worst, extremely corrupt.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:25 pm
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Thumbs up Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by Lychee
I wouldn't recommend moving to Canada to improve your cost of living. I would recommend moving for a change in lifestyle, to adapt to a North American lifestyle. Those that embrace that lifestyle do well here. Those that resist and pine for a British lifestyle suffer and moan.

Vancouver is a lovely Pacific Rim city that embraces an active, outdoor lifestyle, but it's one of the most expensive cities in North America. Cost of living is more. Real estate is severely overvalued. However, it depends on what you're seeking. If you're willing to pay more money in exchange for a chance to live in an active environment where you can quickly access beaches, mountains, islands, and forests on a whim, fine. But Vancouver is the half way point between London and Hong Kong. It's also a city founded in 1886 so it lacks any sense of European history, or quick and cheap flights to large cities. Move to Vancouver to immerse yourself in a "west coast" lifestyle, but don't move here for cost of living purposes.

Eating out at restaurants, however, is fabulous. Vancouver has one of the better restaurant scenes in Canada and it's really affordable.
I have to agree, my family and I (6 in total) lived near Med Hat, Alberta for a year when we were posted to Canada with the British Army. I found the costs there balanced out on the whole. We found car insurance, dairy products, vegetables and broadband/cable were a bit more expensive but fuel, elec/gas, hotels, eating out etc was cheaper.

We had our medicals today and we're hoping to move to Barrie, ON next year. I have a job offer with the CF as a Sergeant and with exchange rates as they are the pay is actually better than a Sergeant gets in the UK. The real cost driver for us is property; a smallish 4-bed house here in the south west is around £230K (C$390K) - I can get a better sized property in Barrie and still have C$100K left over.

As you wisely say; there aren't necessarily any financial advantages to moving to Canada, but we are one of those families who embraced the north american way of life and surroundings - that's where the true 'value' of moving to Canada lies in my opinion.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:26 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by Alan2005
Personally I think certification is a bag of bollocks, but there are those that say it can increase your earning potential.
Not in the UK it won't, trust me, that's why I have given it up. I was originally intending to take it up to MCSE level but I really don't think that it's worth it anymore which is why I cut the cord at MCSA. The only way I would do any more now is if it was part of a company's remit and they were paying me for doing it and I would prefer not to touch Cisco at all if I can help it.
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:27 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by R I C H
There are good and bad employees in all industries. To suggest a manager adds no additional value just shows that type of managers you've worked with, rather than the true worth that someone in that position should bring.

Coding is real work, and management isn't? That's just a dumb statement, IMO.
I think managers often have the people skills coders don't. Coders might see those as useless, but someone has to interface with the plebs
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Old Jan 26th 2010, 4:28 pm
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Default Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk

Originally Posted by R I C H
There are good and bad employees in all industries. To suggest a manager adds no additional value just shows that type of managers you've worked with, rather than the true worth that someone in that position should bring.

Coding is real work, and management isn't? That's just a dumb statement, IMO.
Management is hard. I've tried it and I was self aware enough to know that I'm crap at it. Good managers are rare and are generally worth the money they earn.
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