Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
#76
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,782
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
This is what probably shapes people's opinions on this forum. I have always said that Canada can be the greatest place in the World if you get a government job, but, at the moment and the foreseeable future, those of us in the engineering/manufacturing sector in Ontario are seeing a completly different picture.
#77
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
I agree IT has slipped down the scale a lot. I remember when there was a lot of buzz about IT Being the Future, well paid, blah blah blah...and now it seems like it's treated more as glorified admin. But I also think outsourcing has hurt IT and I've noticed, in my return to the workforce after a long haitus, that many admin jobs now require skills of the kind expected of IT peeps not long ago - like desktop publishing, website maintenance, creation of websites, the ability to fix issues with the network etc. So I think administrators are upskilling and taking over some of the areas that used to be seen as IT. Which seems reasonable - it's not rocket science.
#79
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
So GBP30k for a job that requires a regular degree, most likely needs no management experience or supervisory requirements, isn't a fair wage?
I previously worked for a large games development company, and individuals with advanced skills/experience, managed teams or contributed to the strategic development of the organization got paid considerably more than that . The code monkeys that just followed instruction got paid more than other graduates working in various administrative roles, so I don't think 'IT' jobs were unfairly treated with regard to compensation at all.
I previously worked for a large games development company, and individuals with advanced skills/experience, managed teams or contributed to the strategic development of the organization got paid considerably more than that . The code monkeys that just followed instruction got paid more than other graduates working in various administrative roles, so I don't think 'IT' jobs were unfairly treated with regard to compensation at all.
The 'code monkeys' as you put it are the ones who do the real work, the work which makes the company money, and the company needs them a hell of a lot more than it does the management types.
#80
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
Many admin jobs now require skills of the kind expected of IT peeps not long ago - like desktop publishing, website maintenance, creation of websites, the ability to fix issues with the network etc. So I think administrators are upskilling and taking over some of the areas that used to be seen as IT. Which seems reasonable - it's not rocket science. The other thing that hurts IT imo is that so many of the people seem to have no social skills.
#81
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
Fair point, I don't have SQL or Oracle qualifications because, although I manage those databases right now, I don't particularly enjoy it and I wouldn't really like to be a DBA long-term if I could help it.
#82
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
Whether or not that's necassarily a good thing, I'm not sure, but I think the world could probably make do without it.
#83
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
And there in lies the other problem. My main issue with IT at the moment is that the wages paid to those who 'manage' either be it Projects or a team of staff are paid a fair amount more than those who do the actual work that keeps things running, despite the fact that most of the IT Managers I have worked with probably couldn't find their own arse with both hands and a massive stick.
The 'code monkeys' as you put it are the ones who do the real work, the work which makes the company money, and the company needs them a hell of a lot more than it does the management types.
The 'code monkeys' as you put it are the ones who do the real work, the work which makes the company money, and the company needs them a hell of a lot more than it does the management types.
Coding is real work, and management isn't? That's just a dumb statement, IMO.
#84
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
Right. In the beginning everyone was scared sh*tless of computers, so those who had a clue deserved to earn a premium. Now we're over a decade in, and it's become apparent that a lot of IT skills can be easily picked up by anyone with a bit of aptitude, thereby making IT skills less scarce and less well-paid. I believe this trend is only going to continue. There's no conspiracy. *shrug*
#85
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,227
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
Personally I think certification is a bag of bollocks, but there are those that say it can increase your earning potential.
#86
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
Manchester doesn't pay too badly but retains a fairly reasonable cost of living, although I am deeply opposed to the level of council tax in this city since Manchester City Council are at best incompetent and at worst, extremely corrupt.
#87
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
I wouldn't recommend moving to Canada to improve your cost of living. I would recommend moving for a change in lifestyle, to adapt to a North American lifestyle. Those that embrace that lifestyle do well here. Those that resist and pine for a British lifestyle suffer and moan.
Vancouver is a lovely Pacific Rim city that embraces an active, outdoor lifestyle, but it's one of the most expensive cities in North America. Cost of living is more. Real estate is severely overvalued. However, it depends on what you're seeking. If you're willing to pay more money in exchange for a chance to live in an active environment where you can quickly access beaches, mountains, islands, and forests on a whim, fine. But Vancouver is the half way point between London and Hong Kong. It's also a city founded in 1886 so it lacks any sense of European history, or quick and cheap flights to large cities. Move to Vancouver to immerse yourself in a "west coast" lifestyle, but don't move here for cost of living purposes.
Eating out at restaurants, however, is fabulous. Vancouver has one of the better restaurant scenes in Canada and it's really affordable.
Vancouver is a lovely Pacific Rim city that embraces an active, outdoor lifestyle, but it's one of the most expensive cities in North America. Cost of living is more. Real estate is severely overvalued. However, it depends on what you're seeking. If you're willing to pay more money in exchange for a chance to live in an active environment where you can quickly access beaches, mountains, islands, and forests on a whim, fine. But Vancouver is the half way point between London and Hong Kong. It's also a city founded in 1886 so it lacks any sense of European history, or quick and cheap flights to large cities. Move to Vancouver to immerse yourself in a "west coast" lifestyle, but don't move here for cost of living purposes.
Eating out at restaurants, however, is fabulous. Vancouver has one of the better restaurant scenes in Canada and it's really affordable.
We had our medicals today and we're hoping to move to Barrie, ON next year. I have a job offer with the CF as a Sergeant and with exchange rates as they are the pay is actually better than a Sergeant gets in the UK. The real cost driver for us is property; a smallish 4-bed house here in the south west is around £230K (C$390K) - I can get a better sized property in Barrie and still have C$100K left over.
As you wisely say; there aren't necessarily any financial advantages to moving to Canada, but we are one of those families who embraced the north american way of life and surroundings - that's where the true 'value' of moving to Canada lies in my opinion.
#88
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
Not in the UK it won't, trust me, that's why I have given it up. I was originally intending to take it up to MCSE level but I really don't think that it's worth it anymore which is why I cut the cord at MCSA. The only way I would do any more now is if it was part of a company's remit and they were paying me for doing it and I would prefer not to touch Cisco at all if I can help it.
#89
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
There are good and bad employees in all industries. To suggest a manager adds no additional value just shows that type of managers you've worked with, rather than the true worth that someone in that position should bring.
Coding is real work, and management isn't? That's just a dumb statement, IMO.
Coding is real work, and management isn't? That's just a dumb statement, IMO.
#90
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,227
Re: Cost of living in Canada compared to uk
There are good and bad employees in all industries. To suggest a manager adds no additional value just shows that type of managers you've worked with, rather than the true worth that someone in that position should bring.
Coding is real work, and management isn't? That's just a dumb statement, IMO.
Coding is real work, and management isn't? That's just a dumb statement, IMO.