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Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Old May 24th 2004, 1:02 pm
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Default Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Hello all,

I have been sad to see so many people complaining about the job situation in Canada. Even the ones that love their country (Canada) keep talking over and over about how hard it is to get a job these days. Everybody talks about conversion rates, rough salary estimates, etc etc....

But really people, what are you worth? Why not take control of your destiny rather than become part of statistics, and salary averages.

I would like to tell you my situation before coming to the final question. I am 23 years old, hoping to move to Montreal in November, as I am in the final stages of my immigration process. I was born in a tiny Eastern European country often referred to as the poorest country in Europe (now it's the second poorest). I was 16 when I came to the US by myself as an exchange-student and have never looked back since. I finished high-school and college in Kentucky, where I learned a thing or two about making ends meet, while working 60hrs a week, and attending college full time. When I graduated with an IT degree, in Dec 02, it was the worst time ever to graduate with the degree. That only made me try harder at applying for jobs. I moved to the NYC area, to live with a relative in Brooklyn. I must have sent out about 100 applications before I got my first job interview (within a month) and landed that same job with a small marketing firm, where I stayed for 6 months. Later on I got another job with an advertising powerhouse on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan. To tell you the truth I don't think that I am that good in IT, I work mostly on end-user support, but I have people skills that make up for the lack of deep knowledge.

New York City has been an eye-opening experience. Successful people here take control of their destiny. You just can't count on a job, or fixed salary if you want to become successful and financially secure. One must pursue many ventures, especially in the entrepreneurial aspect. So I learned to hustle on eBay, learned about the art of selling on the side, and started an online e-commerce business (selling carpets) all while keeping my day job.

As I am preparing to move to Montreal, I am wondering. Can't one do all these things in Montreal also? Can't people become entrepreneurs, start small businesses, work for themselves, rather than keep getting depressed about the job market? Have the semi-socialistic politics of Canada killed the entrepreneur spirit that characterizes North America?

Come on people... help me out here. I want to be excited about taking on a new country, language, opportunity. I can hardly wait...
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Old May 24th 2004, 8:49 pm
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Originally posted by prodigyking
Hello all,

I have been sad to see so many people complaining about the job situation in Canada. Even the ones that love their country (Canada) keep talking over and over about how hard it is to get a job these days. Everybody talks about conversion rates, rough salary estimates, etc etc....

But really people, what are you worth? Why not take control of your destiny rather than become part of statistics, and salary averages.

I would like to tell you my situation before coming to the final question. I am 23 years old, hoping to move to Montreal in November, as I am in the final stages of my immigration process. I was born in a tiny Eastern European country often referred to as the poorest country in Europe (now it's the second poorest). I was 16 when I came to the US by myself as an exchange-student and have never looked back since. I finished high-school and college in Kentucky, where I learned a thing or two about making ends meet, while working 60hrs a week, and attending college full time. When I graduated with an IT degree, in Dec 02, it was the worst time ever to graduate with the degree. That only made me try harder at applying for jobs. I moved to the NYC area, to live with a relative in Brooklyn. I must have sent out about 100 applications before I got my first job interview (within a month) and landed that same job with a small marketing firm, where I stayed for 6 months. Later on I got another job with an advertising powerhouse on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan. To tell you the truth I don't think that I am that good in IT, I work mostly on end-user support, but I have people skills that make up for the lack of deep knowledge.

New York City has been an eye-opening experience. Successful people here take control of their destiny. You just can't count on a job, or fixed salary if you want to become successful and financially secure. One must pursue many ventures, especially in the entrepreneurial aspect. So I learned to hustle on eBay, learned about the art of selling on the side, and started an online e-commerce business (selling carpets) all while keeping my day job.

As I am preparing to move to Montreal, I am wondering. Can't one do all these things in Montreal also? Can't people become entrepreneurs, start small businesses, work for themselves, rather than keep getting depressed about the job market? Have the semi-socialistic politics of Canada killed the entrepreneur spirit that characterizes North America?

Come on people... help me out here. I want to be excited about taking on a new country, language, opportunity. I can hardly wait...

Good for you - I mean it sincerely, but remember this: you are young, (very young) and life can throw you curve balls that you do not expect. Canada is NOT America, there are so many rules and regulations that stifle competition and diversity, that to be an entrepreneur here requires a capital investment and the ability to move on if the venture fails. Your eBay venture and your carpet venture are classic examples. You will obviously be taxed in the place you reside, both provincially and federally on the sales you make. There are also import duties, GST and sales tax implications to everything you are currently doing. CCRA are as tenacious as the IRS when pursuing people for money, particularly if you don't have hard-ass lawyers to fight your corner.

That said, if you have good people skills you will do OK, as I suspect you will have mastered the art of networking that most Brits are simply not used to. Even with a US degree, they will see Eastern European first, so be prepared. Your language skills may be the key to your success here. I wish you luck in all your endeavours.
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Old May 24th 2004, 9:35 pm
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Prodigyking, I think you have a great attitude and wish you every success in Montreal.

From the limited periods I have worked in Canada, I honestly feel Canada is not an enterprise culture in the way the US is, or even the way the UK is these days.

I hope that a determined entrepeneur could succeed in Canada, but I think it requires a different approach. Quite what the differences are, I haven't worked out!
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Old May 24th 2004, 10:46 pm
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Originally posted by dingbat


Even with a US degree, they will see Eastern European first, so be prepared. Your language skills may be the key to your success here. I wish you luck in all your endeavours.

Who are they? If I don't have an accent how would anybody know where I come from? Do I have to put down my nationality on every form that I will fill in Canada? Furthermore, isn't everybody an immigrant more or less?

I have always believed that I can use my Eastern European roots as an inspiration of knowing where I came from. I just don't see how it can be of disservice to me.
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Old May 25th 2004, 4:35 am
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Originally posted by ThemeOne
Prodigyking, I think you have a great attitude and wish you every success in Montreal.

From the limited periods I have worked in Canada, I honestly feel Canada is not an enterprise culture in the way the US is, or even the way the UK is these days.

I hope that a determined entrepeneur could succeed in Canada, but I think it requires a different approach. Quite what the differences are, I haven't worked out!
That's a very subjective view; do you have any facts to back it? Do you know what percentage of Canada's work force is self-employeed vs. the US? Canada is about as entrepreneurial as the US. In 1990 (I have stats for that year) there was no significant difference between the two countries regarding percentage of the workforce that was self-employed.

Last edited by oceanMDX; May 25th 2004 at 4:54 am.
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Old May 25th 2004, 4:39 am
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Originally posted by prodigyking
Who are they? If I don't have an accent how would anybody know where I come from? Do I have to put down my nationality on every form that I will fill in Canada? Furthermore, isn't everybody an immigrant more or less?

I have always believed that I can use my Eastern European roots as an inspiration of knowing where I came from. I just don't see how it can be of disservice to me.
Until you get Canadian citizenship, you will have to state your country of origin on (moreorless) every single official form you fill in, including job application forms.
:scared:

Everybody is an immigrant, you are quite right, but some sectors of Canadian society have the remarkable ability to forget that. It is a trait, however, shared by most countries with high immigration levels.
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Old May 25th 2004, 4:57 am
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Originally posted by dingbat


Everybody is an immigrant, you are quite right, but some sectors of Canadian society have the remarkable ability to forget that. It is a trait, however, shared by most countries with high immigration levels.
Why is it so easy for me to forget that I'm an immigrant to Canada? It's because I'm not.
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Old May 25th 2004, 5:37 am
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Originally posted by oceanMDX
Why is it so easy for me to forget that I'm an immigrant to Canada? It's because I'm not.
I am sorry MDX. I had no idea you were aboriginal, although even aboriginal claims to being first in the land we know as Canada are even now being disproved with the aid of science. If you are not aboriginal, then somewhere down the line your family migrated to this country from somewhere. That makes us all immigrants in one way or another.
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Old May 25th 2004, 12:22 pm
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Do you know what percentage of Canada's work force is self-employeed vs. the US? Canada is about as entrepreneurial as the US. In 1990 (I have stats for that year) there was no significant difference between the two countries regarding percentage of the workforce that was self-employed.
I would be cautious in assuming that this means Canada is a successful enterprise society. It might mean that. On the other hand, it could just mean that many Canadians have turned to self employment because they can't find work as employees. We need some way of evaluating the success of these enterprises, and whether conditions exist which encourage this success.

My comment was indeed a subjective view based on limited experience, and talking to a number of newcomers to Canada from Asia who did not seem to feel the country was terribly business-friendly. I hope for their sake, and for Canada as a whole, that time will prove them wrong.
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Old May 25th 2004, 12:34 pm
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Originally posted by dingbat
Until you get Canadian citizenship, you will have to state your country of origin on (moreorless) every single official form you fill in, including job application forms.
:scared:
I have never come across this requirement in 6 years here. Besides if you dont want to put it down leave the box empty. To my knowledge the only time nationality is important is in federal government jobs, where some positions are only open to Canadian citizens, and in the armed forces, which I guess are federala government jobs anyway.

The company I work fo employs people from almost any background you can think of, including Eastern Europe.

Iain
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Old May 25th 2004, 8:04 pm
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Originally posted by iaink
I have never come across this requirement in 6 years here. Besides if you dont want to put it down leave the box empty. To my knowledge the only time nationality is important is in federal government jobs, where some positions are only open to Canadian citizens, and in the armed forces, which I guess are federala government jobs anyway.

The company I work fo employs people from almost any background you can think of, including Eastern Europe.

Iain
Every job I have ever applied for in BC has required that I state my nationality, without exception. Must be this province.
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Old May 25th 2004, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

You cracked me up here :-)



Originally posted by dingbat
I am sorry MDX. I had no idea you were aboriginal, although even aboriginal claims to being first in the land we know as Canada are even now being disproved with the aid of science. If you are not aboriginal, then somewhere down the line your family migrated to this country from somewhere. That makes us all immigrants in one way or another.
 
Old May 25th 2004, 8:16 pm
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Originally posted by dingbat
Every job I have ever applied for in BC has required that I state my nationality, without exception. Must be this province.
What happens if you leave it blank?

What if you just say American? How would anyone find out? And if they do, will anyone be burned at the stakes?
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Old May 25th 2004, 8:20 pm
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You won't be burned at the stakes, you will be given a LOBOTOMY, or given the same treatment like those pics coming out of Iraq :-)


Originally posted by prodigyking
What happens if you leave it blank?

What if you just say American? How would anyone find out? And if they do, will anyone be burned at the stakes?
 
Old May 26th 2004, 1:06 am
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Default Re: Cookie - cutting jobs in Canada?

Originally posted by prodigyking
What happens if you leave it blank?

What if you just say American? How would anyone find out? And if they do, will anyone be burned at the stakes?

Last time I left it blank I got the application form and resume back in the mail with "incomplete information" and the question about nationality highlighted. Thinking about it, my field of work requires RCMP clearances all the time, so maybe that is why. Laughable really, as I know they never check outside of Canada anyway.
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