Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Hi there,

I have been having trouble finding a definitive or clear answer on how exactly qualifications are converted from UK to Canadian.

To be more specific, I am a Marine Engineer by trade and from what I can tell I need to obtain either a P.Eng (if I want to work shore side) or a Canadian Motor Transport Certificate (to work on ships).

If you are already registered with the UK Engineering Council does this cross over?

The P.Eng website is very sketchy on International recognition and the only other info I have found is the Engineers Canada website (http://www.engineerscanada.ca/e/pr_education_2_inst.cfm) which states they want $175 and take up to 6 weeks to reply.

I am wondering if anyone else has had to do this and how it went? :confused:

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Isn't engineering (p.Eng etc) a provincially regulated thing rather than a federally regulated thing? If so, you'll need the BC Association of Professional wheeltappers and spigot winders. Details here: http://www.apeg.bc.ca/

Marine qualification equivalency will be a Transport Canada issue. I have a friend who holds a Chief Officers ticket and is an instructor at the local Marine Institute. I can ask him if you like.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

If you are aiming for vancouver then you need to check the requirements of the BC body (APEGBC)

In general terms if you are currently a UK CEng its a question of paperwork and perhaps some time under probation, plus challenging the local exams regarding ethics and legal responsibilities etc here.

This link is probably a good starting point:
http://www.apeg.bc.ca/iteg/index.htm

Ive had no problems in terms of my UK degree being recognised, but vocational qualifications (HND, C&G etc) are more of a headache.

For offshore its almost certainly some sort of federal ministry approval thats needed (Transport Canada?)

I hear a lot about the necessity of PEng, (mainly from the engineering bodies;)) but I've been here 13 years now without PEng, and its not been a problem so far. It would probably make a few more jobs open if I had it, but so far apathy has ruled the day If I was a structural engineer, or was signing off on designs and plans it would be different. Its very field dependent i think.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

In Alberta (for Structural engineering at least, which is my area), you can register as a Foreign Licensee while you build up the experience required for full membership - there's probably an equivalent for your area.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Both my inlaws are marine engineers working for BC Ferries (well, one has retired now). I can ask them if you like.

I know they get a lot of foreign marine engineers so it's clearly doable. It's just the usual thing with the union i.e. being a newbie you're last pick for any jobs.

When you say marine engineer, what does that mean exactly?

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

I know there's a rule about sea time. I.e. you can't progress until you have a certain no. of hours at sea. That's only if you want to work on ships, though.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

The best part of the PEO magazine (Ontario engineers) are the 'blue' pages in the middle that list the court proceedings of engineers who got into trouble with the engineering society...surprisingly the PEO only list the proceedings of cases in which they prevailed.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Wow, thanks for all the prompt replies everyone!

I see that I may have been a bit ambiguous in what kind of field I'm in: I have worked as a Marine Engineer in the Royal Navy for the last 12 years serving on various ships as well as ashore support orgs. Initially I was at technician level but have been an Officer for the last 5 years, equivalent of a 1st Eng Off in the civvie world. At the moment I have a whole host of courses open to me in my resettlement time but no idea where to focus my efforts. Would help if I hadn't been away the last 6 months!

Kiwilass:Working for something like BC ferries would be ideal as it's the same job I've been doing all my career. Would be interested to know if I have to have Maritime & Coastguard Agency (the UK equivalent) quals to get a Motor Transport Cert or if I can get it through BC ferries.

Am also thinking about working in Vancouver Shipyard (if they have any vacancies) in some sort of shore support capacity (managing refits, ad-hoc work on visiting ships etc) but as far as I can read I can't call myself an 'Engineer' in Canada unless I have a P.Eng?

Atlantic Xpat & Iaink; Thanks for the link to APEG. Not ideal that they don't recognise my IEng, IMarEng or IMarEST registrations which is their equivalent! Of course, they'd miss out on about $2,000 for registration if they did! :sneaky:

Not too sure I like the idea of being taken to court: "The best part of the PEO magazine (Ontario engineers) are the 'blue' pages in the middle that list the court proceedings of engineers who got into trouble with the engineering society...surprisingly the PEO only list the proceedings of cases in which they prevailed." I did notice that I'd need Professional Indemnity if I was registered...worrying! :eek:

Iaink: Would be interested to know what kind of jobs were open to you without a P.Eng and what weren't if you're happy with that? At the moment I'm not really sure what I could and couldn't do??? :confused:

Many thanks for all you guys' help so far :thumbsup:

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

I don't think you have to have a P.Eng for marine. I don't quote me on that, but as far as I know my BIL doesn't have that and he is a First engineer with the FErries. If you check out my links in the posts above it went into more detail about what you need to work on Canadian vessels/how to go about getting your quals assessed etc. It doesn't seem to have much to do with the professional engineering bodies, rather Transport Canada as the others suggested.

FYI, BC Ferries? Kinda a dysfunctional organisation to work for. However, I believe they were short of Firsts at one point, I don't know if that's still true, but that would probably help you get in. I'll check with the BIL.

HTH

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

My background / degree is in Material Science and Engineering, after a few years post grad research Ive worked here as a "Materials engineer", "Senior materials engineer", "Quality Engineer" "Product Engineer" (even I dont know what that means!) etc. As I dont have to prepare blueprints etc or do the kind of legal sign off that civil or structural engineers have to its enough that somewhere up the command structure is a PEng who nominally supervises, but even that's a grey area it seems. My immediate boss was engineering manager in charge of 200 technical staff for a multinational here and he has never had or expressed an interest in PEng membership.

My take is that there are some engineering functions that legally require a PEng sign off, such as machine safety inspection/ approval, structural design etc, but in many other roles its nothing more than a social club.

Legally you cant set up a business as an "Engineer" and offer engineering / consulting services to the public without the license, but there are many people out there employed as Engineers that have not jumped through the licensing hoops, but are perhaps supervised at some level (perhaps indirectly) by a licensed PEng.

The whole "Cant be calling yourself an Engineer with out PEng license" is not unsurprisingly driven my the PEng bodies, based on the narrow interpretation of either setting yourself up as a consultant, or the narrow range of functions where legally its a requirement. I suspect PEng is by now a necessity for engineering management functions, and no doubt is a requirement in some fields like civil or structural or consultancy positions, but thats not what Ive been doing, I work in manufacturing support.

Hope that helps... the interpretation perhaps varies from province to province too. Id say that for the roles you are looking at its would be some sort of Transport Canada ticket/ approval that would apply to you, for the on board functions anyway.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

I don't know whether you would need a PEng qualification to perform the roles you would wish to undertake. However, I can confirm that no UK engineering professional qualifications "cross-over" to a PEng. Basically, you need to start the entire process again. Your engineering degree (assuming you have one) might be acceptable and some of your experience might be take in lieu of PEng experience. But nothing is guaranteed.

Basically, PEng is more of a respected qualification that say, for example, CEng (which is meaningless except to other Chartered Engineers).

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

I worked at a large engineering firm last year and there was at least one, possibly more, british expat engineers who worked as engineers without the P.Eng. They were doing civil, electrical, etc. It seems like as long as there's a Peng floating around to sign it off, the non-Pengs are still considered ok to do the actual work etc.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

However the basic academic and experience criteria are extremely similar, save for the local legal and ethical exams, so if you have CEng its a relatively straightforward excercise to qualify for PEng, especially as many of the provincial bodies are now making steps to recognise qualified foreign newcommers with probationary memberships and the like.

Its a lot easier now to convert CEng to PEng than it was say ten years ago.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

I'd be fairly confident in saying you don't need to be a P.Eng to work onboard ships. Transport Canada or equivalent marine certificates will be required. (Are'nt all marine bridge & engineering certs recognised worldwide given that it's all regulated by the IMO?)

I'd also be fairly confident in saying that getting a job on BC Ferries, a heavily unionised operation, as a newly landed PR would be next to impossible. To learn more about the BC Ferries 'culture' google 'Queen of the North sinking' and read the accident report, court case coverage, gossip and sordid detail surrounding that incident. ;)

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

heh. there were some interesting convos round the inlaws when that went down.

Also, those new super big fancy ferries from Germany? that they spent millions on? Too expensive to run most of the time, I hear. yes. :rolleyes:

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

I do hope you're right. I'm going to give it a go. I think the difficult bit will be getting the one year of Canadian experience under a PEng's supervision. I'm not sure how this is administered or policed, but I'll be looking into it.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Thats the bit that has loosened up a bit (in Ontario at least) I think, it was always a "chicken or egg" situation before.

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I am a chartered engineer with the IMechE in the UK and I've researched this quite a lot, here's my take on the matter.

Firstly in Canada you can't call yourself an Engineer without a degree, the technician or HND equivalent tends to be called "technologist". As Iank pointed out to become P.Eng you need a period of supervision and to sit exams. In this respect I think its a case of double standards because there is supposed to be mutual recognition between member states under the washing and sydney accords - this seems not to be the case for Canada as they stipulate 1 year north american experience to get P.Eng!

As far as your marine engineering background goes. Unless you've got a degree you can't go for P.Eng.

Also my cousin who lives in Canada says that the vocational qualifications are much harder for employers to equate than straight degrees.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

BC Ferries; I remember my wife telling about that incident...wasn't it (supposedly) to do with a couple of the crew having some 'personal time'?

I do have a degree (B.Eng (Hons)) and am a Member of IMarEST but only an I.Eng and I.Mar.Eng. as I'm not quite old/experienced enough to go for chartered...plus I can't afford to keep paying IMarEST the incredibly extortionate fees!

I read that under the Sidney Accord (http://www.accreditation.org/accords...e=SydneyAccord), Canada is supposed to recognise I.Eng within it's professional structure as a Certified Engineering or Applied Science Technologist. Is that enough to get you by?

From what I can tell, I can become a provisional member (applications approx $400-500), go to an ethics seminar ($360-400), Provisional Practice Exam ($300) then work under supervision for a year before paying another $400 ish to register. That's providing I don't have to sit any other exams?

From what I am reading here (on the forum), I can still work as an Engineer (on shore) without a P.Eng but it just means I can't sign off on certain things and get sued?

So, the big questions is, what's the real benefit of being a P.Eng, other than (hopefuly) some more pay? :confused:

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Networking and job opportunities.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

I'm an ex-RN clanky working on my PEng application in Alberta. The Washington Accord could help you if your BEng is accredited - you can look it up on the Engineering Council website. However, provincial engineering associations will want to see transcripts and satisfy themselves of the academic goodness of your course; mutual recognition agreements are made at the federal level and provincial bodies are keen to maintain their independence.
Regarding the law, you can look up the relevant provincial legislation. You'll see that engineering is very broadly defined, and provincial associations seem to have attracted the kind of officials who like investigating compliance issues. If they are suspicious, they will come and investigate your role and decide whether it is engineering or not, then pursue enforcement action appropriately. All in the name of public safety you understand...

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Hmm...I'll have to have a look at that.

I guess it's safe to assume then that they won't recognise any of my RN qualifications (Apprenticeship, HND, MCQ etc)?

How have you found it working towards the P.Eng? I'm assuming that you don;t get the usual level of heads up prior to the exams...?

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

The PEO only seem to do exams twice a year, so no problem with a heads up for them.

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That's a bonus that they do them twice a year, at least there's a bit of flexibility. Seems you can only sit them twice...though if you can't pass a multi-choice exam on the third attempt....:thumbdown:

AGR: Having looked on the UKEC website, it seems my dodgy 1 year Pompey Uni top up degree is only, and probably only JUST, I.Eng accredited :( Though it does state BSc instead of BEng???

Knew that scheme seemed a bit dodgy when I volunteered for it!

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

The Sydney Accord doesn't apply to IEng in itself, but to qualifications accredited by the EC-UK. Contact the CCTT: http://www.cctt.ca/
also see: http://www.washingtonaccord.org/Sydney/signatories.cfm

However, if you qualify, this means that Canadian institutes should recogise you as meeting the academic component of their requirements to be an engineering technologist. You still would have to do meet the same exams/experience/language requirements as any Canadian graduate.

Also check if your specific institute (IMarEST) has any agreements with its Canadian peer institutes as sometimes these go beyond the Washington and Sydney Accords.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Mate,

I too have a similar background, I'm an ME SUY, from the timings you look like an UY (?). If you were a greenie you can apply as a Federal Skilled Worker as you come under the industrial electrician (maritime) category. You will have to check the CIC website (and NOC list for the 4 figure code) to see if this is still the case as the categories in the FSW scheme have been re-vised around 22 Apr. If your a clanky by background then I'm not sure.

I have recently submitted our applications (last month) under this scheme.

The IMarEST/IEng membership is equivalent to Engineering Technologist wrt education only (in Ontario that is - sry thats not overly helpful but that's where we are hoping for), but exams will still need to be undertaken until you can legally state that title. There is a section in the applications asking for membership of professional bodies - so it can only help.

Done the MSc with Pompey Uni yet? Engineering and Management was fairly straight forward (60 pts for SEMC, 60 for MCQ leaving 60 to complete)

PS Put my notice in a month ago.

Good Luck

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Martin

We are looking for support for the Subs that the UK sold to the Canadians a while ago in BC. If you can send me your CV I could pass it around.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Congrats on getting the notice in and the application started!

I'm quite fortunate that I'm going under the Spouse/Family Visa as my Mrs in Canadian so I shouldn't have to worry about the Skilled Worker schemes. What is tricky is getting all our random qualifications recognised...have you had any joy with that?

I did go through as a UY and did the 1 year at Pompey, didn't know about the Masters scheme though, is that one of the distance learning ones? Does the 120 credits equate to 2/3 of the final year or is it the full final year you have to do...I'm not really all that clued up on degrees? Seems like a good way to spend some more of those ELCs! Have you managed to get to grips with all the courses and the Career Transition Workshops yet?

With regards the PEng thing, it seems to me the best advice so far is to not worry too much yet, get a job as an 'Technologist' and worry about the PEng bit when the time comes to sit back and sign of paperwork?

Really appreciate all the useful info from all of you on here, I don't feel quite so concerned about finding work now! :thumbsup: Well, not until they read my CV anyway...why can't everyone in the world write them the same way??!! :frown:

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

Wow, thanks for that...seems like the ideal cross over work! I'll send you a PM.

Re: Converting Qualifications & Obtaining a P.Eng
 

If you've got the SEMC (which I'm sure you have) and passed your MCQ it equates to 120 of the required 180 points for an MSc. Those remaining 60 points can be done either as a project or courses as run by Pompey Uni (usually valued at 15, 30 or 45 points). If you google 'learning at work' or 'Learning at work' along with Portsmouth Uni you'll get a contact number to help you further.

To get a job as a technologist you still have to pass the required exams. I was in Toronto in Feb and the feeling I got was that there are plenty of engineering jobs that do not require Technologist or PEng status. I agree it's something to crack on with once there.

As for the CV, write one up and send it to the White Ensign Assoc on HMS Belfast. Ex 2 1/2 will QA it for you at no charge (although as you are aware the format is slightly different). It certainly helped me put a decent one together - after several drafts!!

Notice is still in JPA and yet to get to Pompey Resettlement, although I have already spoken to them. 10 months to go to terminal leave.:thumbsup: