British Expats

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-   -   Confused.. Why Canada? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/confused-why-canada-491493/)

neill Nov 6th 2007 6:59 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

One point I do want to make, with all the complaints about how bad things are in the UK. You do realize that the reason you can sell up move here and buy a huge house here is because things are so DAMN GOOD in the UK, right?
I'll agree with you that the UK is not as 'bad' as people like to say it is. But perhaps only from an economic viewpoint. Not having lived there for 6 years i can't say for sure. But it didn't seem any worse when i last visited in August.


You think Canadians could afford to do the same thing? No way. The British are buying up second homes, vacation properties, inverstments, all over the world. Do you see very many Canadian doing that? NO. Only the fortunate few. Whereas the British have the economic power to invest all over the world.
They are doing this all on equity release by 1) selling second/third properties and using the difference to fund another place and 2) by re-mortgaging their existing property. The banks were persuaded to do this on the basis of rising house prices, and the pace of rise is unsustainable. If the market goes flat, the equity releases will dry up, and people will be left with huge mortgages.


If you decide to go back to the UK, do you realize how hard it will be for you to get back into the housing market at anywhere near where you are now? There is no way that house prices in Canada, at least outside of the major centres are rising anywhere near what you get in the UK. And specially London.
I disagree, i think some areas of Canada are experiencing comprable, if not higher increases than the UK. (Agreed that they won't sustain for nearly as long due to decent housing supply in Canada vs. UK)


It will ALWAYS be an economic powerhouse. It has been the centre of power for hundreds of years. A property investment in London is gold. London is at the point where people are saying it may very well overtake New York as the financial capital of the world.
On this point, i'll agree with you. But London isn't really in the UK. :lol:

YYZlover Nov 6th 2007 7:55 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 5517753)
Even inside your gated community? Do they scale the walls? Catapult rotting sheep over? That's the sort of rich history one misses over here.

Eh???? Not with you.

dbd33 Nov 6th 2007 8:01 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by YYZlover (Post 5519559)
Eh???? Not with you.


I've not catapulted a sheep for yonks, madam.

AdrianTO Nov 6th 2007 8:54 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by YYZlover (Post 5516623)

However, in North America the chavs/thugs tend to stay in their own area, wereas in UK they are everywhere.

And the only reason they exist is due to bad parenting.

YYZ

I think you are being quite naive here. Firstly, as an immigrant moving to a new country, how do you even know what "their own areas" are? Some are obvious and every body knows they are bad areas. Others are not so obvious and are scattered all over the city.

And even then, they don't stay in "their own area", people have been shot in front of the Eaton Centre and in front of nightclubs as a result of crossfire from gang related shootings. What are you going to do? Not go shopping downtown?

We are right across the border from the U.S, and this has become a conduit for guns and drugs. In Europe you are still somewhat removed from a lot of this. Those "thugs" in the UK get their inspiration from N American gangs.

I see "thugs" all over the place, even in the upscale mall close to where I live. And all the youth here seem to be adopting that sense of style, regardless of their backgrounds, Whites, Blacks, Indians, Tamils, Chinese, West Indians, they all walk around like wanna be thugs.

Having said all of that, Toronto is still a fairly safe city, specially for N America. Some people here have said, well "Toronto is not Canada.' This is true. But, the reality is that Toronto has less crime than some of the smaller cities in Canada such as Edmonton and Regina.

Contrary to what some here think, this is not some sort of utopia where people of all classes and races hold hands and sing "Kumbaya". You will see similar social problems here.

R I C H Nov 6th 2007 8:56 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by AdrianTO (Post 5519904)
This is some sort of utopia where people of all classes and races hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".

Edited for accuracy.

You need to travel west more often ;) :p

dbd33 Nov 6th 2007 8:59 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by AdrianTO (Post 5519904)
I think you are being quite naive here. Firstly, as an immigrant moving to a new country, how do you even know what "their own areas" are? Some are obvious and every body knows they are bad areas. Others are not so obvious and are scattered all over the city.

Can you give an example? Toronto seems to me to be quite well defined in terms of violent and non-violent areas.


Originally Posted by AdrianTO (Post 5519904)
And even then, they don't stay in "their own area", people have been shot in front of the Eaton Centre and in front of nightclubs as a result of crossfire from gang related shootings. What are you going to do? Not go shopping downtown?

One would certainly have to consider King West "the entertainment district" as being one of the more violent areas. If it's shootings that concern you then most of Scarborough is better.

iaink Nov 6th 2007 9:10 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by AdrianTO (Post 5519904)
I think you are being quite naive here.

We are being naive? You are the one uping sticks and heading to spain on the grounds that the grass is greener.

My experience is that the grass is no more or less green where ever you go, happyness and contentment are states of mind dependent on your own outlook on life, and no one elses.

If you decide you can be happy in a certain place, chances are you can. Once you decide you have to leave, its very hard to stop that ball rolling because of the cliche about not looking back on your life and wondering "what if..."

Contrary to what some here think, this is not some sort of utopia where people of all classes and races hold hands and sing "Kumbaya". You will see similar social problems here.
Have you lived in enough of Canada to speak for the whole country? I live a pretty utopian life in my corner of Ontario, but thats just cos its a good match for what I am looking for in life at the moment. Other people here seem quite happy with their choice too.

AdrianTO Nov 6th 2007 9:10 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 5514679)
Why not laugh? Not least because you seem to have misread - or misunderstood - the article you make reference to.

No I haven't misunderstood the article. The lines I quoted were specifically done to refute that poster's laughter as to my comments that crime and poverty were down. It was not intended to address the points about social malaise.

Now you are expanding the scope and want to talk about social unease. From what I gather in that whole piece from the The Economist, the thrust of the article is, "with things going so well, why the doom and gloom?"


I don't recognise some of your characterisations of Toronto. Granted, I'm a suburbanite who rides the GO every day to get downtown, but out here in the wasteland of dystopian Oakville (thanks, dbd...)
Like Toronto is not Canada, Oakville is not Toronto. It is like someone living in Hampstead or one of the wealthier areas of London. Oakville is one of the most expensive areas of GTA. It doesn't mean your experiences are not valid, but it is just that very, very few of those moving to Toronto will be able to enjoy the Oakville lifestyle.

AdrianTO Nov 6th 2007 9:14 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by R I C H (Post 5519919)
Edited for accuracy.

You need to travel west more often ;) :p

As I mentioned earlier, Toronto is one of the safer Canadian cities. Places like Edmonton and Regina are more crime ridden. And Vancouver, well, just today CBC was reporting that there appears to be a gang war developing in the city and it is going to get worse.

iaink Nov 6th 2007 9:17 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 
Actually, most of the brits seem to end up in Oakville...'cos of all that UK equity they can bring probably.

What is your point wit this argument anyway? People do their research and make a decision based on it. No one is going to change their mind because of your opinion, or anyone elses. Most Brits who come to Canada are very happy with the result. You don't like it and are moving away. So what, that's life, Time to move on.


Sometimes you cant see the wood for the trees, and that's very true of immigration, a bad experience in one area clouds your view of a whole country. Large chunks of the UK are very nice, some parts are not, same goes for Canada. But just cos you have certain experiences and views does not make for a one size fits all solution.

R I C H Nov 6th 2007 9:18 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by AdrianTO (Post 5520052)
As I mentioned earlier, Toronto is one of the safer Canadian cities. Places like Edmonton and Regina are more crime ridden. And Vancouver, well, just today CBC was reporting that there appears to be a gang war developing in the city and it is going to get worse.

Not all of us live in large urban areas like those you mention. I'm happily isolated from crime and thuggery. :thumbup:

When you've the option and convenience of being able to work from home, why choose to live somewhere that has gang war issues?

AdrianTO Nov 6th 2007 9:21 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 5519938)
Can you give an example? Toronto seems to me to be quite well defined in terms of violent and non-violent areas.

One would certainly have to consider King West "the entertainment district" as being one of the more violent areas. If it's shootings that concern you then most of Scarborough is better.

Well, when people think violent areas, they think Jane and Finch or maybe some areas of Scarborough. Not many people know for example that Thorncliffe Park is pretty bad or that Chester Le around Vic Park and Finch is another one. Many people that live in Toronto there whole lives and just go from home to work and back every day have no idea about some of these places.

Toronto is by no means a crime ridden city. But, there are social problems. Many of them. And many similar to what people say they are trying to run away from.

AdrianTO Nov 6th 2007 9:25 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by R I C H (Post 5520076)
When you've the option and convenience of being able to work from home, why choose to live somewhere that has gang war issues?

As I mentioned earlier, in your case, you seem to have found the type of lifestyle that you were looking for when you moved out of the UK. And I can understand your reasons. Some of the others though, I am not so sure.

iaink Nov 6th 2007 9:25 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by AdrianTO (Post 5520052)
As I mentioned earlier, Toronto is one of the safer Canadian cities. Places like Edmonton and Regina are more crime ridden. And Vancouver, well, just today CBC was reporting that there appears to be a gang war developing in the city and it is going to get worse.

Gang war like in Toronto. Again, the areas involved are well defined. There is none of the random happy slapping type GBH of many towns and cites in the UK.

What is the point of this thread? To discourage people from coming to canada on the off chance they are caught up in a drive by shooting? Unless they plan joining a gang when they land its pretty unlikely to affect their daily life. I suggest you stop watching the news...life is much happier without the violence of a city of 5M souls being invited into your living room every night. Cheaper than moving to Spain too.

dbd33 Nov 6th 2007 9:27 pm

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Originally Posted by AdrianTO (Post 5520093)
Toronto is by no means a crime ridden city. But, there are social problems. Many of them. And many similar to what people say they are trying to run away from.


I can't argue with that but emigrants from the UK have their equity to keep them safe. The whole merit of moving to Canada is that relatively low property values mean a step up in social class. What's lost is intangible, what's gained is a bigger house with white neighbours.


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