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Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Old Mar 14th 2014, 3:03 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by Dulciusexasperis View Post
<waffle, waffle>
So Oakvillian, I understand Slippy's issue (it is not a dilemma) and I have provided a way forward. Phone the employer, speak to HR, ask if they will accept his application without a HS Diploma which he CANNOT provide.

<waffle, waffle>
The rest of your post is so much fluff, but I'd be obliged if you can tell me why Slippy does not face a dilemma? Originally a very specific syllogism (if A then B; if C then D: A and C; therefore B and D) in formal Greek logic, the word has come to mean, in English, either a choice between two equally difficult options, or, more generally, any difficult problem.

The OED cites instances from the beginning of the 17th century onwards of the latter, more general usage. Even the more traditional English definition, though, fits this situation: Slippy can try to get documented evidence of completing secondary education, or can persuade the employer to proceed without it. Either is potentially fraught with difficulty.

Last edited by Oakvillian; Mar 14th 2014 at 3:17 pm. Reason: removed unnecessary barb
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Oakvillian, a 'dilemma' implies a DIFFICULT choice. It's not difficult to pick up a phone or use Skype. So from my perspective, there is no dilemma.

I hope that clarifies what I meant.
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 4:01 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by Dulciusexasperis View Post
Be as pedantic as you like colchar. No problem. However, Universities award both degrees and diplomas and so do Colleges actually.
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/a-di...-not-a-degree/

I worked in academia (university level) for a decade so I am very familiar with what they award here in Canada. The diplomas offered by universities here are normally done in conjunction with a degree (ie. getting a diploma in something, rather than just doing a minor in it, while also doing a B.A. in another subject). They also offer diplomas for programs done in conjunction with industry associations, etc.

The point is that many people refer to university qualifications as diplomas when they are degrees, which are much much harder to obtain.

Also, colleges here can now grant some limited degrees (a change that I am not in agreement with) but far too many people refer to any college qualification as a degree when it is merely a diploma or a certificate. I think that largely stems from Americans calling universities colleges and people here equating the two.
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 4:14 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by canbritdenise View Post
Who said she didn't have O levels.
my point was, the Town that is offering the job, dont know what to do with overseas qualifications.
whether you have further education or not, they still like to see A little piece of paper saying you have completed grade 12.
Where did I mention O Levels??!!
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 4:26 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

So, you agree that both Universities and Colleges award diplomas and degrees colchar. What you are talking about is people using the wrong term. ie. saying degree when in fact it is a diploma or vice versa.

What does it matter what people refer to them as? I understand the difference but don't see how it matters. Matters to who? If someone tells me they have a College degree in Marketing, I understand what they are saying and I know it is a diploma not a degree. I couldn't care less what they call it. The question is what does it indicate they have some knowledge about. That's all it really means and all that matters.

I also don't agree with a blanket statement that degrees are 'much harder to obtain' than a diploma. That simply isn't always the case. It depends on what you compare. A degree in Media Studies may not be as hard for someone to get as a diploma in Instrumentation Engineering Technology for example.

It also depends on the aptitudes of the individual. For example, if you are mechanically challenged and have no head for Maths, I'm sure the IET Diploma would be beyond achieveable. At the same time you may find a degree in Media Studies a walk in the park.

I can understand your personal frustration in people using the wrong term but it's hardly worth making an issue of.
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 4:29 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by Dulciusexasperis View Post
So, you agree that both Universities and Colleges award diplomas and degrees colchar. What you are talking about is people using the wrong term. ie. saying degree when in fact it is a diploma or vice versa.

What does it matter what people refer to them as? I understand the difference but don't see how it matters. Matters to who? If someone tells me they have a College degree in Marketing, I understand what they are saying and I know it is a diploma not a degree. I couldn't care less what they call it. The question is what does it indicate they have some knowledge about. That's all it really means and all that matters.

I also don't agree with a blanket statement that degrees are 'much harder to obtain' than a diploma. That simply isn't always the case. It depends on what you compare. A degree in Media Studies may not be as hard for someone to get as a diploma in Instrumentation Engineering Technology for example.

It also depends on the aptitudes of the individual. For example, if you are mechanically challenged and have no head for Maths, I'm sure the IET Diploma would be beyond achieveable. At the same time you may find a degree in Media Studies a walk in the park.

I can understand your personal frustration in people using the wrong term but it's hardly worth making an issue of.
You just have!!
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 4:39 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by rivingtonpike View Post
You just have!!
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 4:43 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by The4BellsLondon View Post
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You can say that again!!
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 4:44 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by Dulciusexasperis View Post
Oakvillian, a 'dilemma' implies a DIFFICULT choice. It's not difficult to pick up a phone or use Skype. So from my perspective, there is no dilemma.

I hope that clarifies what I meant.
It certainly clarifies something about you...
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 6:02 pm
  #70  
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Well folks it's been an interesting thread if I must say lol the thing that I was mostly concerned about was spending the £2500 I've saved to come over next month and put myself out there by visiting these companies in person because to be totally honest I don't really do phone conversations, scottish accents and phone conversations don't really go well together unless were talking to our own tribe and I know I'd mess it up, I can sell myself way better meeting in person, that was my only gripe spending savings on something that was going to be a complete waste of time and money BUT you know something I've decided what the hell I'm still coming over and I will get a job and as for this education malarkey I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. So I'd just like to say thankyou to everyone that commented on my thread and hopefully I'll be over soon driving my lil heart away on the Canadian roads ;-)
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 6:08 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by Slippy View Post
Well folks it's been an interesting thread if I must say lol the thing that I was mostly concerned about was spending the £2500 I've saved to come over next month and put myself out there by visiting these companies in person because to be totally honest I don't really do phone conversations, scottish accents and phone conversations don't really go well together unless were talking to our own tribe and I know I'd mess it up, I can sell myself way better meeting in person, that was my only gripe spending savings on something that was going to be a complete waste of time and money BUT you know something I've decided what the hell I'm still coming over and I will get a job and as for this education malarkey I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. So I'd just like to say thankyou to everyone that commented on my thread and hopefully I'll be over soon driving my lil heart away on the Canadian roads ;-)
It might still be worth seeing what you can get from the school/school board etc before you come. Canadians seems to love bits of paper - seems to be a reassurance reinforcement thing; kind of absolves them psychologically and personally if the poo hits the proverbial fan down the line - "well I checked his papers!"

Otherwise what the heck! If you don't try you won't know. A neighbour up the road from me works in the shale gas stuff in Alberta making roads for the exploratory test wells. He certainly doesn't wave diplomas and graduation certs at employers - I checked.
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 6:21 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by rivingtonpike View Post
It might still be worth seeing what you can get from the school/school board etc before you come. Canadians seems to love bits of paper - seems to be a reassurance reinforcement thing; kind of absolves them psychologically and personally if the poo hits the proverbial fan down the line - "well I checked his papers!"

Otherwise what the heck! If you don't try you won't know. A neighbour up the road from me works in the shale gas stuff in Alberta making roads for the exploratory test wells. He certainly doesn't wave diplomas and graduation certs at employers - I checked.
Yeh I've spoken to someone from the scottish board of education today and they told me that from 1995 onwards everybody's cert and stuff will be on computer but anything before that is archived and she did mention that my info might not even be there it might've been destroyed in that case I will get the £38 charge refunded but I won't know for a couple of weeks and I ain't waiting so I'm going to just book flights up and head over,after fed up waiting around...! I did an apprenticeship after school (scotvec) so there mite be something in there that I can use who knows lol.
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Old Mar 14th 2014, 6:33 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by Slippy View Post
Yeh I've spoken to someone from the scottish board of education today and they told me that from 1995 onwards everybody's cert and stuff will be on computer but anything before that is archived and she did mention that my info might not even be there it might've been destroyed in that case I will get the £38 charge refunded but I won't know for a couple of weeks and I ain't waiting so I'm going to just book flights up and head over,after fed up waiting around...! I did an apprenticeship after school (scotvec) so there mite be something in there that I can use who knows lol.
Well good luck anyway -whatever the outcome. I know there will be lots on here keen to hear the outcome and who all wish you the very best!
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Old Mar 15th 2014, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

Originally Posted by Slippy View Post
Yeh I've spoken to someone from the scottish board of education today and they told me that from 1995 onwards everybody's cert and stuff will be on computer but anything before that is archived and she did mention that my info might not even be there it might've been destroyed in that case I will get the £38 charge refunded but I won't know for a couple of weeks and I ain't waiting so I'm going to just book flights up and head over,after fed up waiting around...! I did an apprenticeship after school (scotvec) so there mite be something in there that I can use who knows lol.
Hi Slippy, just thought I'd share my experience. I'm a truck driver based in Manitoba with PR status. I left school at the age of 15 in 4th year in Belfast, but my parents sent me to primary school a year too soon. So essentially, I completed the 12 years (8+4) of education required for PNP, but just not in the right order.

I did, however, take a few exams before leaving school (with the school not wanting me to leave with nothing), but all I could find was a RSA maths certificate when looking for proof of education for PNP, and some after school certificates for Inn-keeping.

HTH
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Old Mar 15th 2014, 4:44 pm
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Default Re: Company asking for "proof of completion of secondary school"

I have no problem with encouraging you to come and try to get some interviews Slippy. If you are more comfortable face to face that's fine.

I suggested phoning because I think that you will be able to overcome the 'paper' requirement with your practical driving experience. But you have to get someone to talk to you to do that. By phone or in person, either will do.
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