coming to Canada, and the future of our children
#46
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
"My wife qualified as a teacher in BC and was working in the UK when I met her. We've since moved to Vancouver...... we'll be moving back to the UK simply because the education system is so much better (there)."?
I imagine (and sincerely hope) that your teacher wife could have managed less mangling of the English language in such a short post.
#47
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
I don't really know why the tread has been closed so quickly? I wasn't even able to respond.
Since I haven't been educated in the UK, I was always wondering how the UK education system would compare to Canada, if it was better or worse, and if so, how and why?
I also always felt, that coming from Europe, going to Canada is just a lifestyle choice, but for an immigrant coming from India or Asia, it's more a move for an entirely better life and a state/government more stable and predictable.
Since I haven't been educated in the UK, I was always wondering how the UK education system would compare to Canada, if it was better or worse, and if so, how and why?
I also always felt, that coming from Europe, going to Canada is just a lifestyle choice, but for an immigrant coming from India or Asia, it's more a move for an entirely better life and a state/government more stable and predictable.
#48
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
People here grow up everyday singing the national anthem, people in the UK don't. People grow up here with everything from a "Canadian perspective". In the UK kids learn where other countries are on a map. Or at least I think so. The brit kids I know are way better at pointing out their own country as well as Canada/usa on a map than the Canadian ones I know.
Although i'm sure children of Brits are more worldly than "normal" Canadians with Canadian parents because they go on trips back home, and parents talk to them about UK and Europe, etc, even if they do grow up with the Canadian system.
#49
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
In my opinion, all the education systems are the exact same because the kid always "graduates" with the same result: A piece of paper that says s/he has learned to memorise and regurgitate [on exams] what the state deems important, and is now fit to move on and actually do something productive with their life.
#50
is awesome
Joined: May 2011
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 261
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
Just throwing my 2c in but I was educated at university in both the UK and Canada (as an exchange student) and the UK education system is generally better, although I found the facilities at UBC blew those of Birmingham out of the water. My exchange year was during my 3rd year and the modules I took in the Canadian 3rd year were of the same standard as my 1st year classes in the UK. I ended up having to withdraw from them and take the graduate classes instead. I guess it's not surprising given that we specialise earlier in the UK (and don't have to take electives at uni) so it gives us a chance to get ahead. And now, as a working professional, I can say that some of the Canadian graduates really don't have a clue what they're doing in their job because they took the wrong classes. It seems kind of stupid that a person could graduate with a degree in geology, for example, without ever doing any fieldwork! I think the UK system is pretty good at picking out which courses should be mandatory and which can be optional.
#51
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
I guarantee you that most people, North American or European, don't have a clue where, say, Somalia is located. There seems to be an European snobbery in being able to point selective(highly reputable/ex colonial empires) first world countries in the globe and deriding North Americans that cannot, while remaining absurdly ignorant about the African continent. Not exactly what I'd call 'informed'.
And btw, given the size of Canada & USA, I do not give any points to anyone succeeding(lol) at naming the countries. I am also wondering why a profound knowledge of geology is indicative of a person's overall knowledge/abilities. Most people choose to focus their learning on their hobbies/career of interest. Whether or not specialized information about geology will be important in their jobs depends on various factors. A person's worth is not the measurement of their geology/history skills.
Been to four (French) Canadian schools, never did we sing or listen to the national anthem...
I did however grew up with family shoving the Acadian culture down my throat so much I ended up disliking anything connected to it. Having to sit through tedious lectures from parents (and 2 French elitist teachers) about how x ancestors did X to my ancestors did not make my sympathize more with 'THE LINGUISTIC CAUSE'. No, it completely erased my innate love of the French language and by the time I turned 18, my 12 year old plan(made when I was six, yes) to study French Literature switched to eventually majoring in English.
From asking around, I found that I was pretty much the only one(or one of the very few) people who was raised with a specific cultural intent. There was French-only music played in the house, French-only television on, French books only, only French was spoken...By the time I was 13, I knew maybe 3 words of English, despite growing up in Moncton, a bilingual city. Whenever I tried to practice my English by conversing with other people, either from a customer perspective or in a school setting with fully bilingual friends, there was guilt-trips from teachers/family. 'Why are youuuuu letting the Anglophones assimilaaaate you, Vainquill? Asssseeeerrrrttt you riiiiighhhht to speak frennnnnnnchhhh!!!' (Um, hello, English is precisely what I need to practice if I ever want to function in Canadian society...)
But yeah, none of my peers ever had a comparable experience with being raised from a narrow cultural experience like I was. Usually other parents didn't care much about their origins, so I am rather intrigued about your opposite observations, Gozit.
So do Canadian kids, most just decide not to retain specific country knowledge. An interest in history is a rare thing. It could certainly be that UK children tend to be more interested in history, but I have yet to see measurable data proving/disproving this theory.
I believe Canada(and other countries) would do well to imitate the Switzerland modal. There in their lower secondary (12-16) and upper secondary school system they have the option to go for apprenticeships or higher education. They appear to be able to specialize and gain experience quite early, so there is none of that 'unskilled with no experience' dilemma for students graduating & looking to find employers willing to give them a shot at a basic entry level position like in most countries. They have the lowest unemployment rate in the world for a reason...
#52
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
You are either trolling or you have the displeasure of being surrounded by World's Biggest Pea-brains. Who have you actually met that cannot locate Europe on a map?!
I guarantee you that most people, North American or European, don't have a clue where, say, Somalia is located. There seems to be an European snobbery in being able to point selective(highly reputable/ex colonial empires) first world countries in the globe and deriding North Americans that cannot, while remaining absurdly ignorant about the African continent. Not exactly what I'd call 'informed'.
And btw, given the size of Canada & USA, I do not give any points to anyone succeeding(lol) at naming the countries. I am also wondering why a profound knowledge of geology is indicative of a person's overall knowledge/abilities. Most people choose to focus their learning on their hobbies/career of interest. Whether or not specialized information about geology will be important in their jobs depends on various factors. A person's worth is not the measurement of their geology/history skills.
Seriously, what kind of narrow-minded area do you live in? That has not been my experience at all, whenever I tell fellow Canadians about my plans to eventually land in England, it is always met with a positive 'Oooh, interesting, you will have a richer cultural background!' or other encouragement of that kind. Only people complaining are close family members who don't like the idea of me being so far away from them, but I'm not sure what they expected given that I've never been relationship/family-oriented at all.
Been to four (French) Canadian schools, never did we sing or listen to the national anthem...
Not sure how people are raising their kids with a 'Canadian perspective' as the country is so big/varies so much from province to province it's almost impossible to make generalizations about the entirety of the land.
I did however grew up with family shoving the Acadian culture down my throat so much I ended up disliking anything connected to it. Having to sit through tedious lectures from parents (and 2 French elitist teachers) about how x ancestors did X to my ancestors did not make my sympathize more with 'THE LINGUISTIC CAUSE'. No, it completely erased my innate love of the French language and by the time I turned 18, my 12 year old plan(made when I was six, yes) to study French Literature switched to eventually majoring in English.
From asking around, I found that I was pretty much the only one(or one of the very few) people who was raised with a specific cultural intent. There was French-only music played in the house, French-only television on, French books only, only French was spoken...By the time I was 13, I knew maybe 3 words of English, despite growing up in Moncton, a bilingual city. Whenever I tried to practice my English by conversing with other people, either from a customer perspective or in a school setting with fully bilingual friends, there was guilt-trips from teachers/family. 'Why are youuuuu letting the Anglophones assimilaaaate you, Vainquill? Asssseeeerrrrttt you riiiiighhhht to speak frennnnnnnchhhh!!!' (Um, hello, English is precisely what I need to practice if I ever want to function in Canadian society...)
But yeah, none of my peers ever had a comparable experience with being raised from a narrow cultural experience like I was. Usually other parents didn't care much about their origins, so I am rather intrigued about your opposite observations, Gozit.
So do Canadian kids, most just decide not to retain specific country knowledge. An interest in history is a rare thing. It could certainly be that UK children tend to be more interested in history, but I have yet to see measurable data proving/disproving this theory.
Well if you are a young immigrant, you are obviously going to want to know more about your future destination...
The one thing I have observed the Brits having more than Canadians is a deeper vocabulary. Probably because of the lack of North American attitude shaming those who want to read...
Yeah the ridiculously long list of mandatory 'options' in North American universities is complete bullshit. Students are forced to take so many courses outside their field because that apparently makes for 'well-roundedness'. Most people don't actually ever use the blahblah 'learned'. I'm tempted to say the agenda is to stretch the degree for a few more semesters to earn more money.
This is where Canadian colleges beat their university counterparts. The emphasis placed on practical work rather than studying theories makes them more employable at the end of their studies. I can't seem to find the corresponding study, but I remember reading that around 66% of employers do not think recent uni graduates are prepared for the workplace. That obviously indicates a lack of balance between learning and APPLYING concepts.
I believe Canada(and other countries) would do well to imitate the Switzerland modal. There in their lower secondary (12-16) and upper secondary school system they have the option to go for apprenticeships or higher education. They appear to be able to specialize and gain experience quite early, so there is none of that 'unskilled with no experience' dilemma for students graduating & looking to find employers willing to give them a shot at a basic entry level position like in most countries. They have the lowest unemployment rate in the world for a reason...
I guarantee you that most people, North American or European, don't have a clue where, say, Somalia is located. There seems to be an European snobbery in being able to point selective(highly reputable/ex colonial empires) first world countries in the globe and deriding North Americans that cannot, while remaining absurdly ignorant about the African continent. Not exactly what I'd call 'informed'.
And btw, given the size of Canada & USA, I do not give any points to anyone succeeding(lol) at naming the countries. I am also wondering why a profound knowledge of geology is indicative of a person's overall knowledge/abilities. Most people choose to focus their learning on their hobbies/career of interest. Whether or not specialized information about geology will be important in their jobs depends on various factors. A person's worth is not the measurement of their geology/history skills.
Seriously, what kind of narrow-minded area do you live in? That has not been my experience at all, whenever I tell fellow Canadians about my plans to eventually land in England, it is always met with a positive 'Oooh, interesting, you will have a richer cultural background!' or other encouragement of that kind. Only people complaining are close family members who don't like the idea of me being so far away from them, but I'm not sure what they expected given that I've never been relationship/family-oriented at all.
Been to four (French) Canadian schools, never did we sing or listen to the national anthem...
Not sure how people are raising their kids with a 'Canadian perspective' as the country is so big/varies so much from province to province it's almost impossible to make generalizations about the entirety of the land.
I did however grew up with family shoving the Acadian culture down my throat so much I ended up disliking anything connected to it. Having to sit through tedious lectures from parents (and 2 French elitist teachers) about how x ancestors did X to my ancestors did not make my sympathize more with 'THE LINGUISTIC CAUSE'. No, it completely erased my innate love of the French language and by the time I turned 18, my 12 year old plan(made when I was six, yes) to study French Literature switched to eventually majoring in English.
From asking around, I found that I was pretty much the only one(or one of the very few) people who was raised with a specific cultural intent. There was French-only music played in the house, French-only television on, French books only, only French was spoken...By the time I was 13, I knew maybe 3 words of English, despite growing up in Moncton, a bilingual city. Whenever I tried to practice my English by conversing with other people, either from a customer perspective or in a school setting with fully bilingual friends, there was guilt-trips from teachers/family. 'Why are youuuuu letting the Anglophones assimilaaaate you, Vainquill? Asssseeeerrrrttt you riiiiighhhht to speak frennnnnnnchhhh!!!' (Um, hello, English is precisely what I need to practice if I ever want to function in Canadian society...)
But yeah, none of my peers ever had a comparable experience with being raised from a narrow cultural experience like I was. Usually other parents didn't care much about their origins, so I am rather intrigued about your opposite observations, Gozit.
So do Canadian kids, most just decide not to retain specific country knowledge. An interest in history is a rare thing. It could certainly be that UK children tend to be more interested in history, but I have yet to see measurable data proving/disproving this theory.
Well if you are a young immigrant, you are obviously going to want to know more about your future destination...
The one thing I have observed the Brits having more than Canadians is a deeper vocabulary. Probably because of the lack of North American attitude shaming those who want to read...
Yeah the ridiculously long list of mandatory 'options' in North American universities is complete bullshit. Students are forced to take so many courses outside their field because that apparently makes for 'well-roundedness'. Most people don't actually ever use the blahblah 'learned'. I'm tempted to say the agenda is to stretch the degree for a few more semesters to earn more money.
This is where Canadian colleges beat their university counterparts. The emphasis placed on practical work rather than studying theories makes them more employable at the end of their studies. I can't seem to find the corresponding study, but I remember reading that around 66% of employers do not think recent uni graduates are prepared for the workplace. That obviously indicates a lack of balance between learning and APPLYING concepts.
I believe Canada(and other countries) would do well to imitate the Switzerland modal. There in their lower secondary (12-16) and upper secondary school system they have the option to go for apprenticeships or higher education. They appear to be able to specialize and gain experience quite early, so there is none of that 'unskilled with no experience' dilemma for students graduating & looking to find employers willing to give them a shot at a basic entry level position like in most countries. They have the lowest unemployment rate in the world for a reason...
There is a minor point that should be raised though. The ability to identify a place on a map is normally viewed as requiring a basic knowledge of geography, rather than geology.
#53
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
My bad, looking back at my post I can see more than a few typos. Should not post this tired.
Last edited by VainQuill; Nov 23rd 2014 at 4:27 am.
#54
is awesome
Joined: May 2011
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 261
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
This is where Canadian colleges beat their university counterparts. The emphasis placed on practical work rather than studying theories makes them more employable at the end of their studies. I can't seem to find the corresponding study, but I remember reading that around 66% of employers do not think recent uni graduates are prepared for the workplace. That obviously indicates a lack of balance between learning and APPLYING concepts.
#55
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Nova Scotia (from Scotland)
Posts: 1,032
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
The geographic knowledge of UK kids makes the news every time they do a survey, and the results usually aren't good:
one in five can't locate the UK
one in three don't know Wales is in the UK
I'm not saying geographical knowledge is an important part of life, but to say that UK kids are all worldly and great at geography doesn't appear to be accurate...
one in five can't locate the UK
one in three don't know Wales is in the UK
I'm not saying geographical knowledge is an important part of life, but to say that UK kids are all worldly and great at geography doesn't appear to be accurate...
#56
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland (via Belfast, Manchester, Toronto and London)
Posts: 4,802
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
If someone wants to have a debate about the relative merits of education systems, perhaps they should look at the annual OECD study of the performance of 15 year olds in reading, math and science. Canada consistently beats the UK in all 3 categories every year.
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings...s-overview.pdf
Personally I think the comparison is probably a case of 2 bell curves sitting on top of each other with one slightly shifted relative to the other. There is so much local variation in both countries that where you come from and where you move to (in either country) has much more bearing on your experience than what country you actually end up in. Either education system is fine. So much depends on the individual school and the people in it. But for someone to claim that one huge system is better than another huge system, you better start coming up with definitive figures that proves your point of view. You can't possibly know that just from personal experience.
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings...s-overview.pdf
Personally I think the comparison is probably a case of 2 bell curves sitting on top of each other with one slightly shifted relative to the other. There is so much local variation in both countries that where you come from and where you move to (in either country) has much more bearing on your experience than what country you actually end up in. Either education system is fine. So much depends on the individual school and the people in it. But for someone to claim that one huge system is better than another huge system, you better start coming up with definitive figures that proves your point of view. You can't possibly know that just from personal experience.
Last edited by MarylandNed; Nov 24th 2014 at 2:50 pm.
#57
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
If someone wants to have a debate about the relative merits of education systems, perhaps they should look at the annual OECD study of the performance of 15 year olds in reading, math and science. Canada consistently beats the UK in all 3 categories every year.
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings...s-overview.pdf
Personally I think the comparison is probably a case of 2 bell curves sitting on top of each other with one slightly shifted relative to the other. There is so much local variation in both countries that where you come from and where to move to (in either country) has much more bearing on your experience than what country you actually end up in. Either education system is fine. So much depends on the individual school and the people in it. But for someone to claim that one huge system is better than another huge system, you better start coming up with definitive figures that proves your point of view. You can't possibly know that just from personal experience.
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings...s-overview.pdf
Personally I think the comparison is probably a case of 2 bell curves sitting on top of each other with one slightly shifted relative to the other. There is so much local variation in both countries that where you come from and where to move to (in either country) has much more bearing on your experience than what country you actually end up in. Either education system is fine. So much depends on the individual school and the people in it. But for someone to claim that one huge system is better than another huge system, you better start coming up with definitive figures that proves your point of view. You can't possibly know that just from personal experience.
#58
Slob
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Ottineau
Posts: 6,342
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
There are bits of it that I know to be accurate from observation.
Incidentally, during the Falklands thingy, the Brits didn't have any Ordnance Survey maps. There were not any. The only map available was a geology one.
#59
limey party pooper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,982
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
Yeah, I have been told that the Army used Ladybird books to teach map reading to the troops.
#60
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,232
Re: coming to Canada, and the future of our children
In my opinion, all the education systems are the exact same because the kid always "graduates" with the same result: A piece of paper that says s/he has learned to memorise and regurgitate [on exams] what the state deems important, and is now fit to move on and actually do something productive with their life.