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Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Old Sep 9th 2014, 1:06 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Probably best to leave it as late as you can. I've been in Canada just under 10 years and in that time there have been three significant changes that would affect the decision as well as the timing.
So when they change the rules, do you know if they apply to everyone retrospectively? Even if someone has already topped up for the shortfall in their National Insurance while living abroad?
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 3:48 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Edo View Post
So when they change the rules, do you know if they apply to everyone retrospectively? Even if someone has already topped up for the shortfall in their National Insurance while living abroad?
These changes are generally to apply some time down the road so people can plan accordingly.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 4:46 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Isn't the amount you are entitled to frozen from the time that you leave the UK, rather than the time you first draw it?
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 5:26 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
Isn't the amount you are entitled to frozen from the time that you leave the UK, rather than the time you first draw it?
If it's already in payment, yes. But you still get the opportunity to make up for missing years before then.

The latest change is that 35 years are needed so you can leave the UK with 30 and make up the 35 later to get the full whack.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
If it's already in payment, yes. But you still get the opportunity to make up for missing years before then.

The latest change is that 35 years are needed so you can leave the UK with 30 and make up the 35 later to get the full whack.
I thought that a recent post made reference to the fact that it was frozen from the time that one leaves the UK, even if one is not receiving it at that time.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 5:39 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
I thought that a recent post made reference to the fact that it was frozen from the time that one leaves the UK, even if one is not receiving it at that time.
Not so. If you are referring to the payments being frozen if you live in Canada, Australia, NZ or SA it is frozen at the date of your first draw, not when you leave the UK, except if you are already drawing it. Then it is frozen when you leave.

Last edited by Simon Legree; Sep 9th 2014 at 5:43 pm.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 5:39 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
I thought that a recent post made reference to the fact that it was frozen from the time that one leaves the UK, even if one is not receiving it at that time.
Yeah I'd like to know that too in order to work out if its worth paying it now or leave it for later.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 5:43 pm
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Simon Legree View Post
Not so. If you are referring to the payments being frozen if you live in Canada, Australia, NZ or SA it is frozen at the date of your first draw, not when you leave the UK.
Thank you. That was what I thought was the position but another poster stated otherwise.

I have over 25 years to go before I will be eligible to draw a UK pension. I doubt very much that it will still be around then or that, if it is, it will be worth having.
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Old Sep 9th 2014, 5:47 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
Thank you. That was what I thought was the position but another poster stated otherwise.

I have over 25 years to go before I will be eligible to draw a UK pension. I doubt very much that it will still be around then or that, if it is, it will be worth having.
That's what I thought when I started buying years way back in the 1970s. It's turned out to be the best few hundred quid I ever invested. I didn't even know about the 60% spousal thing back then either. I've already got my inventment back in spades.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 12:01 am
  #25  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

The frozen bit is getting confused. As Simon Legree says, the frozen bit refers to the amount of UK pension you draw on becoming eligible - that stays the same if you are resident in Canada, it does not increase year on year.

However the rules for qualifying have changed many times. I still remember anticipating a pension at 60. Then the age increased once, twice.... now it is 67. Likewise it used to be "40 years" worth of NI conts for a full pension, then 30 years, now 35 years. They are also changing how the payment is calculated and doing away with the earnings related bit - though "they say" that the overall amount will work out at about the same... (Keep up, now.)

These changes are just what I can recall during my 30 years of working life. And I still have almost 20 to go, so I imagine there will be more before I reach the current pensionable age of 67.

I'll still probably pay up my Class 2s, though. Must get that pension statement ordered...
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Old Sep 11th 2014, 12:56 am
  #26  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
If it's already in payment, yes. But you still get the opportunity to make up for missing years before then.

The latest change is that 35 years are needed so you can leave the UK with 30 and make up the 35 later to get the full whack.
Only if you start paying NI after April 2016, if you were paying before that, it's still 30 years. DWP are apparently going to explain this all in one of their missives at some point.

As far as the cost of living adjustments go, you get whatever it is at the time they start paying it, but you don't get the adjustments because of the way the social security agreement between Canada and the UK is worded. In the US or the EU or some other places (Switzerland) you would get them though.
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Old Sep 11th 2014, 4:13 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
Only if you start paying NI after April 2016, if you were paying before that, it's still 30 years. DWP are apparently going to explain this all in one of their missives at some point.
Really? Then I have enough years, as I clocked up year 30 just before leaving the UK.
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Old Sep 12th 2014, 12:28 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Kaye5 View Post
Really? Then I have enough years, as I clocked up year 30 just before leaving the UK.
Well yes, but they appear to have fiddled it slightly by discounting any years prior to being 19 years old.
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Old Sep 12th 2014, 1:41 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
Well yes, but they appear to have fiddled it slightly by discounting any years prior to being 19 years old.
I think for us oldies they do add them on.

This is my calculation, if I input 29 years of work:

Years of contributions you already have 32
Years you can still make contributions 19

Your estimate may include up to 3 years of automatic credits for the years containing your 16th, 17th and 18th birthdays. If you got your National Insurance number after April 2010 you don’t get these automatic credits.

How much per week you may get £113.10

[this is just basic - I would get some additional state pension too]

Your starting amount will be the higher of either:

the amount you would get under the current State Pension rules (which includes basic State Pension and Additional State Pension)
the amount you would get if the new State Pension had been in place at the start of your working life


[this is what you are referring to? they use whichever rule gives you the higher amount?]

The amount they are now talking about is 148 pw. So I am presuming that even though under the 30 year rule I qualify for full pension, it would be full pension at 113, and to get 148 I would have to up it to 35 years. Clear as mud...

Last edited by Kaye5; Sep 12th 2014 at 1:45 am.
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Old Sep 12th 2014, 4:24 am
  #30  
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Default Re: Class 2 National Insurance for expatriates

Originally Posted by Kaye5 View Post
The amount they are now talking about is 148 pw. So I am presuming that even though under the 30 year rule I qualify for full pension, it would be full pension at 113, and to get 148 I would have to up it to 35 years. Clear as mud...
I went through that calculator. I have 31 years (28 and 3) and mine came up as £113. But I went back and changed it to 38 (as if I'd worked the last 10 years instead of being here) and it stayed at £113.
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