Clematis

My husband and I moved to Ontario in August 2008 on Work Permits, I found out that he had been having affairs and after counselling and mediation we decided to end the marriage. We has a legal separation agreement drawn up and I left in September 2011 and returned to the UK.

He has three children who all decided they wanted to remain in Canada, I had Step Parental Responsibility awarded by the Courts in the UK and our Canadian Separation Agreement recognises this. I am close to the children and they consider me to be their Mum, I had no issues with them remaining in Canada as they were happy there, it was more about choosing which country not which parent. We had many discussions about this, and I left happy knowing they were happy, the children knew I was not happy in Canada and were happy that I would be happy in the UK.

Over the last two years there have been many issues regarding the children, they did not like their Dads new girlfriend, now he has a different one but she has children of a similar age and there are a lot of blended family issues.

One child is thinking about returning to the UK, she is fifteen. Having had many distraught phone calls off her, I am trying to help. I am well aware that part of her decision is based on the fact that she is arguing with her Dad, and that this is swaying her decision.

Obviously I would love to have her with me, but I am conscious of the impact this would have on her, leaving Dad, siblings, friends and school. I am incredibly biased as I hate her Dad with a passion, he destroyed the family, but this is not about me.

How can I empower my daughter? I have sent her a PDF of an Ontario guide to Separation, this has a kids help line number that I have advised her to call.

Does anyone know the legal steps we would have to take if she really wanted to return?

Clematis

bats

I have no answers for you but just wanted to send love and hugs. I know how much love there is between you and your children and hope it works out. Your very reasonable and sensible approach should prevail if there is any justice.

Zoe Bell

No answers here but to echo what Bats said
All too often children get caught in the middle , it was incredibly selfless of you to realize that the children should remain in Canada and not to put them in a position where they felt they had to pick a parent

However things work out hold your head up high that you are doing the best thing for the children

I wish the greatest of happiness however your future pans out.

Zoe Bell

No answers here but to echo what Bats said
All too often children get caught in the middle , it was incredibly selfless of you to realize that the children should remain in Canada and not to put them in a position where they felt they had to pick a parent

However things work out hold your head up high that you are doing the best thing for the children

I wish the greatest of happiness however your future pans out.

Clematis

Thank you bats

Thank you Zoe

dbd33

Late to the party but, yes, bats is spot on. If I were to start hugging people in the internet, I'd start here.

Novocastrian

+1. That time C. had us all over to her place it was obvious that her step children loved her to bits.

Good luck Clematis. Trust your judgement.

Greenhill

I had a lot of advice (most of it pretty much unnecessary) thrown at me when I went through divorce and child custody stuff here.

From that advice, if I recall correctly, I believe there is a lower age in the UK (compared to Canada), regarding when a child becomes "free" from custodial agreements and parental control. Also, at some age threshold, a minor can also elect [in court] to be with the other parent.

AC will hopefully be along soon to clarify.

cheeky_monkey

im not sure this helps? My situation is that i separated from my wife in 2012 and our 3 kids went back to the UK with her..fast forward a year and my oldest son has come back to Canada to live with me..all i needed was a letter from my wife agreeing to sole custody..not sure how it works going the other way though?

Almost Canadian

If the parties agree upon what is to happen it should be fairly simple to paper that. The remainder of this response assumes the parties, for whatever reason, are unable to agree.

The OP will need to make an Application in Canada for an Order to determine the residence of the child. As per usual, whether the Court will decide to permit the child to relocate to the UK will depend upon "what is in the best interests of the child."

It should be fairly easy for you to retain counsel in Ontario to represent you. You could represent yourself (attending by telephone) but only you can determine whether you would feel comfortable doing so.

I assume that divorce proceedings were not commenced. If they were, an Order for custody and access would already be in place (on the assumption that the divorce was finalized).

As I see it, your main difficulty will be in persuading the Court that the UK will be a better place for the child to live when compared with Ontario. An Ontario judge will decide this. You will also have to explain how often dad will have access to the child and which of the parties should have to pay the costs of such access (expect to have to pay them yourself).

You will need to take great care to stay away from it appearing that the child is going through adolescence and simply doesn't like the fact that dad is not permitting her to do the things she wants to do. If you left Canada in 2011, how often have you seen the child since the time you left? If you haven't, why haven't you? etc.

The Court can order a child psychologist to prepare (what is known in Alberta as a Bilateral Assessment) report to aid the Court to determine what is best for the child. These are very expensive and will be even more so in light of the international element. Ordinarily, the expert will visit the school, meet with the child(ren), meet with the parents (and look at their accommodation) and would meet with the parents' new partners. The expert will then provide recommendations to the Court and, invariably, the recommendations are almost universally adopted by the Court.

Alternatively, the child can bring an Application to attempt to achieve the same result. Legal Aid is usually available to enable them to obtain a lawyer (a lawyer made be Ordered to represent the child even if you make an Application).

Best of luck.

PMM

Hi


I would think that in a custody case, the OP being a step parent is going to have a bearing on the case.

Clematis

Thank you kind sir!

Seems like a lifetime ago, thank you Novo

Thank you and yes no doubt.

If it is by mutual agreement, then I guess it would be much easier.


Should not be as previously stated I have Step Parental Responsibility for them which is recognised by the Separation Agreement. I have been with them since the youngest was two and the eldest was five. However I do not wish to go to Court and fight over them. This was far more about empowering my middle child to reach her own decision with out bias or guilt from either parent.

Almost Canadian

Possibly, but that would depend upon the strength of the Order the OP has from England that she has referred to. If it provides her with de facto guardianship/custody, she is in the same position as her ex.

Her biggest issue, as I see it, will be persuading a Court that the child will be "better off" in England versus Canada and explaining how the OP will not face the same issues with the child in England that her ex is facing in Ontario. It will also depend upon how much access the OP has had with the child since returning to the UK. Calling the child, Skyping, texting and emailing the child are very different from looking after the child.

The OP suggested that the parties had agreed that Canada was the best place for the child at the time that the OP went back to England. One assumes they did so after considering all the facts. What has changed?

Clematis

Thank you, access and custody was all dealt with in the Separation Agreement, other than the divorce there is nothing to sort, house, finances, access etc, were all dealt with. As I could have claimed spousal support and he could have claimed child support we mutually agreed to both waive this and I just pay Section 7 expenses.

Part of the Agreement was that the children would return to the UK every Summer, that did not happen this year. I went out to see them last year, and have regular contact with them. We also had a court agreement from the UK, giving us the Right to Remove the children, but again part of the agreement was that the children would return to the UK each Summer to see their birth mother.

I have no desire to wrangle in Court with my very soon to be ex husband about who the children should live with. We both made that decision with the children something all of us thought long and hard about, in the end the children were happy with their lives in Canada and did not want to leave, it was not about which parent.

It is only now that things are changing and to be honest I think part of it is teenage angst, but I am trying to guide my child to make her own decision. I doubt that she fully understands the impact this decision could have.

Clematis

Clematis

Yes it does prove that, I totally agree with what you are saying, as I said the only thing that has changed is potentially what the child wants.