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Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Old Aug 14th 2017, 10:13 am
  #601  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Oh, I just read the previous posts, didn't realise that my comment caused a stir...
@Brainwave, you read way too much into my words.
There is no "occupation" context in what I wrote.
From Oxford dictionary:
Colony definition:
2. A group of people of one nationality or race living in a foreign place.
‘the British colony in New York’
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Old Aug 14th 2017, 11:22 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Oh, I just read the previous posts, didn't realise that my comment caused a stir...
@Brainwave, you read way too much into my words.
There is no "occupation" context in what I wrote.
From Oxford dictionary:
Colony definition:
2. A group of people of one nationality or race living in a foreign place.
‘the British colony in New York’




Yes I did over react, have taken the chill pill since then!
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Old Aug 14th 2017, 11:42 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Self-prescribing?
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Old Aug 15th 2017, 2:20 pm
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:-)
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Old Sep 6th 2017, 10:35 pm
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Looks Like Trudeau and Co are bent on bringing in the tax changes, we are in a tricky situation now. Moved this year, haven't sold our house which was near Heathrow, I still have around 2 years where I can do my appraisals and keep my license.
What do you all think about the upcoming changes? Canada has such a high personal tax rate that it makes UK look like a low Tax country!
Currently my accountant hasn't said much, I havent earned much so far (I know it ill improve next year), so it may make a huge difference this year but may be a problem next year
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 3:32 am
  #606  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Brainwave View Post
Looks Like Trudeau and Co are bent on bringing in the tax changes, we are in a tricky situation now. Moved this year, haven't sold our house which was near Heathrow, I still have around 2 years where I can do my appraisals and keep my license.
What do you all think about the upcoming changes? Canada has such a high personal tax rate that it makes UK look like a low Tax country!
Currently my accountant hasn't said much, I havent earned much so far (I know it ill improve next year), so it may make a huge difference this year but may be a problem next year
He is being incredibly short sighted - having said that earnings in the UK have been depleting rapidly over the last 10 years or if you are thinking of heading back you may be going from the frying pan into the fire.

It will mean many more retiring early, Canadian docs heading South. It isn't as if Canada is awash with doctors .... Let us see what is decided, I won't hold my breath. All small business representatives are campaigning but Trudeau opens up at their Caucus in Kelowna basically with " it's happening" such a great listener, such a great guy...but he does look,great for the photo opportunity, especially with the hunky firemen in Kelowna.......
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 9:17 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Thanks Stinkypup


The main proposal that riles me is the way they are trying to get to "passive income", what I do not understand is whether they are going to go after the passive investments such as real estates or stock options(which we are nowhere near to start yet) or whether they are going to stop people leaving money in their corporation?
So if we plan to increase our family in a couple of years time, can we not rely on drawing the income left in the corporation?
Are they going to tax it upfront and then give us something back in the form of tax credits.
The amount of money /personnel required to implement that change will offset any long term benefit.
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 5:50 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Dear God, there has been some hyperbolic outrage about this. Canada’s own Project Fear.

The way to look at the issue is to ask what the public policy objective is, and the mischief the government is looking to stop.

The Canadian tax system is based on the premise that income is income. The same amount of tax should be paid on a source of income, regardless of the structure through which it is earned. Income tax rates of individuals, corporations and trusts are set to achieve this objective. The system is described as integrated. Integration is not perfect, and the current proposals are intended to eliminate some of the imperfections.

Here are some of the mischiefs the proposals are intended to counter.

1 Income sprinkling.

When income tax rates are graduated the lowest tax is paid when the income is earned by as many people as possible. The mischief is that some business owners will “employ” their spouses, kids, retired parents, and giddy aunts though the recipients do not do any meaningful work to earn the income. This is basically fraud and has never been legal. The government will toughen the rules to deter this.

Shares and family trusts can be used to allocate dividend income to lower earning relatives instead of the business owner. A passive investor deserves dividend income if they have capital at risk. If someone has no capital at risk and no active involvement in the income earning activities of the business why do they deserve a share of the dividends? For many years there have been rules that restrict the ability to flow dividend income to minor children. These rules are to be beefed up to include other family members. Payments that reflect a reasonable return on the contribution to the business will continue to be exempted.

If anyone does not like this they should look at the mischief and ask themselves why a business person who has several lower tax paying relatives should pay significantly less tax on their income than a single person?

2 Passive income

Small businesses have a very low tax rate. Somewhere between 10%-15%, depending on province. The public policy objective is to enable small businesses to keep the majority of its profits to reinvest in growing its business. The mischief is that not all business owners do this. Instead of investing the “tax advantage” in growing the business they invest in passive investments to build up a pot of wealth. Long standing rules apply a surtax to passive income within a small business corporation that equates to an individual’s top tax rate. This surtax is refunded to the corporation when the passive income is paid out to the shareholders and taxed in their hands. The integration principal in practice.

My understating of the new proposals is that the government intends to extend this refundable surtax to excess active business income that is retained in the corporation to invest in passive assets.

This is the issue that upsets the professional corporations. However, you have to come back to the question of why a business person should have more after-tax income to invest in passive assets if they earn their income through a corporation rather than as a sole trader. There is no justifiable reason for this.

3 Capital gains deduction

A more esoteric issue but still important for tax fairness.

Each person is allowed to earn capital gains in certain qualifying investments tax-free. Generally, qualifying investments are small business corporations and agriculture or aquiculture operations. The limit is currently just over $800k per person.

If a sole shareholder sells a business for a $5million capital gain then $800k is tax-free and the rest goes onto their tax return. If they have had the foresight to set up a trust with many family beneficiaries the current rules are that all the beneficiaries of the trust can claim their $800k exemption. This way none of the gain is taxed.

Clearly, this is a tax advantage gain by the insertion of a trust owned corporation in a business structure and is contrary to good public policy.

4 Converting income to capital gains.

Capital gains are taxed at half the rate on other income. Some small businesses carry out a series of transactions with related corporations to try and convert business income into capital gains. These should be caught under the existing anti-avoidance rules and the proposed legislation will shore this up. I don’t know of anyone who has serious issues with this.

Conclusion

The proposed rules will enhance tax fairness by eliminating tax loopholes some small business owners currently exploit. Sure, it sucks if you have been planning on the basis of existing rules and enforcement, but it is hard to argue that the new proposals are some unfair draconian tax grab.
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 6:31 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Methinks we wont see eye to eye on this one JonboyE- I felt that this piece explained it quite well but then I have no doubt you would disagree, your prerogative.

beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/mr-trudeaus-government-declares-class-warfare/article36160054/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 7:58 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Stinkypup View Post
Methinks we wont see eye to eye on this one JonboyE- I felt that this piece explained it quite well but then I have no doubt you would disagree, your prerogative.

beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/mr-trudeaus-government-declares-class-warfare/article36160054/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
Dear Jon0boy

The job of a GP or any other doctor is an exhausting one , both mentally and physically . There is this socialist adage that we should do it for the goodness of the heart and not for the money but unfortunately there are bills to pay !
We left England because I had no time to spend with my children specially on their education , which lots of so called low income poor jobs mum did.
Lots of friends had a comparable life style , lie stress jobs and were not emotionally drained by the end of the day, and spent good quality time with their kids.
The problem was that we didn't have time and not enough after tax money to delegate the chores .
I went part time there and it was definitely a better life. However I always resented tr fact that I had to go through all that competition in my life, make so many personal sacrifices to get to where I was, and couldn't even work 4 days a week.
We had a poorer life style than my builder, plumber , electrician friends ,
I started earning late because there was all this training to go through with multiple rotations , the place was never the same so I couldn't get into property ladder which many of my friends who chose more sensible non medical trade did.
They had kids earlier than me , had more time and a better lifestyle.
It didn't matter when I was younger but with kids ,it makes a difference.
so we left England , and cane to Canada .
Initially I found the press very doctor friendly which is such a morale boost .
But with this , it seems to be turning into daily mail brigade .
Doctor bashing /hating started any another loony left party .
Not much different from Blighty,I am afraid.
I discourage my kids from taking up medicine .
Poor working hours,takes ages to get where you need to brand no incentive to make up for the lost years and the political parties are always after our lives.
I am not ashamed to say that the option of incorporating was the reason we chose Canada over Australia or New Zealand and we won't be afraid to move again .
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 8:51 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Stinkypup View Post
Methinks we wont see eye to eye on this one JonboyE- I felt that this piece explained it quite well but then I have no doubt you would disagree, your prerogative.

beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/mr-trudeaus-government-declares-class-warfare/article36160054/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
Dear Jon0boy

The job of a GP or any other doctor is an exhausting one , both mentally and physically . There is this socialist adage that we should do it for the goodness of the heart and not for the money but unfortunately there are bills to pay !
We left England because I had no time to spend with my children specially on their education , which lots of so called low income poor jobs mum did.
Lots of friends had a comparable life style , lie stress jobs and were not emotionally drained by the end of the day, and spent good quality time with their kids.
The problem was that we didn't have time and not enough after tax money to delegate the chores .
I went part time there and it was definitely a better life. However I always resented tr fact that I had to go through all that competition in my life, make so many personal sacrifices to get to where I was, and couldn't even work 4 days a week.
We had a poorer life style than my builder, plumber , electrician friends ,
I started earning late because there was all this training to go through with multiple rotations , the place was never the same so I couldn't get into property ladder which many of my friends who chose more sensible non medical trade did.
They had kids earlier than me , had more time and a better lifestyle.
It didn't matter when I was younger but with kids ,it makes a difference.
so we left England , and cane to Canada .
Initially I found the press very doctor friendly which is such a morale boost .
But with this , it seems to be turning into daily mail brigade .
Doctor bashing /hating started any another loony left party .
Not much different from Blighty,I am afraid.
I discourage my kids from taking up medicine .
Poor working hours,takes ages to get where you need to brand no incentive to make up for the lost years and the political parties are always after our lives.
I am not ashamed to say that the option of incorporating was the reason we chose Canada over Australia or New Zealand and we won't be afraid to move again .
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 12:53 pm
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

"Sure, it sucks if you have been planning on the basis of existing rules and enforcement"

People have to, you can't work with what you don't know. That's why everyone in this room has spent good money becoming a corporation. It's not the case, in the computer business, that individuals have corporations for any business reason. It's to reduce taxation and to evade employment laws which are themselves tax related. The system having been configured to support "income sprinkling" since I've been in Canada it does seem rather unfair to change it now (note that I have no personal axe to grind on this, my corporate mascot dog has passed).

No doubt these measures will be a boon for accountants and tax lawyers as they reconfigure their clients' affairs so as to maintain their tax position. IME, the tax rate doesn't change over the years but the fees are ever increasing. Some years you have to sprinkle, some years you have to use dividends, some years you buy some MURBs, next year it'll be something else. I would have thought a stable tax regime would be good public policy, not one that's messed about with so that people end up with a dozen numbered companies each or throw their hands up and move to America. Still, government policy changes always benefit someone so, good luck to Messrs Price and Waterhouse.
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 2:46 pm
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Stinkypup View Post
Methinks we wont see eye to eye on this one JonboyE- I felt that this piece explained it quite well but then I have no doubt you would disagree, your prerogative.

beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/mr-trudeaus-government-declares-class-warfare/article36160054/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
I agree with JonBoyE.

Are you able to explain, in generic terms, how you will be affected in ways other than those that are "unfair" as are clearly explained in the above post by our resident accountant.

I do not have a PC precisely because I realise it is unfair.
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 2:48 pm
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Brainwave View Post
Dear Jon0boy

The job of a GP or any other doctor is an exhausting one , both mentally and physically . There is this socialist adage that we should do it for the goodness of the heart and not for the money but unfortunately there are bills to pay !
We left England because I had no time to spend with my children specially on their education , which lots of so called low income poor jobs mum did.
Lots of friends had a comparable life style , lie stress jobs and were not emotionally drained by the end of the day, and spent good quality time with their kids.
The problem was that we didn't have time and not enough after tax money to delegate the chores .
I went part time there and it was definitely a better life. However I always resented tr fact that I had to go through all that competition in my life, make so many personal sacrifices to get to where I was, and couldn't even work 4 days a week.
We had a poorer life style than my builder, plumber , electrician friends ,
I started earning late because there was all this training to go through with multiple rotations , the place was never the same so I couldn't get into property ladder which many of my friends who chose more sensible non medical trade did.
They had kids earlier than me , had more time and a better lifestyle.
It didn't matter when I was younger but with kids ,it makes a difference.
so we left England , and cane to Canada .
Initially I found the press very doctor friendly which is such a morale boost .
But with this , it seems to be turning into daily mail brigade .
Doctor bashing /hating started any another loony left party .
Not much different from Blighty,I am afraid.
I discourage my kids from taking up medicine .
Poor working hours,takes ages to get where you need to brand no incentive to make up for the lost years and the political parties are always after our lives.
I am not ashamed to say that the option of incorporating was the reason we chose Canada over Australia or New Zealand and we won't be afraid to move again .
The job of a cleaner is an exhausting one too. Except they don't get to put "income" into a PC so as to avoid paying the appropriate amount of tax on it today, so that they can draw it down in retirement.
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 6:28 pm
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Brainwave View Post
Dear Jon0boy

The job of a GP or any other doctor is an exhausting one , both mentally and physically . There is this socialist adage that we should do it for the goodness of the heart and not for the money but unfortunately there are bills to pay !
We left England because I had no time to spend with my children specially on their education , which lots of so called low income poor jobs mum did.
Lots of friends had a comparable life style , lie stress jobs and were not emotionally drained by the end of the day, and spent good quality time with their kids.
The problem was that we didn't have time and not enough after tax money to delegate the chores .
I went part time there and it was definitely a better life. However I always resented tr fact that I had to go through all that competition in my life, make so many personal sacrifices to get to where I was, and couldn't even work 4 days a week.
We had a poorer life style than my builder, plumber , electrician friends ,
I started earning late because there was all this training to go through with multiple rotations , the place was never the same so I couldn't get into property ladder which many of my friends who chose more sensible non medical trade did.
They had kids earlier than me , had more time and a better lifestyle.
It didn't matter when I was younger but with kids ,it makes a difference.
so we left England , and cane to Canada .
Initially I found the press very doctor friendly which is such a morale boost .
But with this , it seems to be turning into daily mail brigade .
Doctor bashing /hating started any another loony left party .
Not much different from Blighty,I am afraid.
I discourage my kids from taking up medicine .
Poor working hours,takes ages to get where you need to brand no incentive to make up for the lost years and the political parties are always after our lives.
I am not ashamed to say that the option of incorporating was the reason we chose Canada over Australia or New Zealand and we won't be afraid to move again .
We moved for the same reasons for my husband, not seeing much of the children, increasing workload and stress etc.

But we've also achieved what we wanted when we set out here, an adventure, expand the kids horizons, my husband has more autonomy over hrs etc and we have a comfortable lifestyle. We are in fact very lucky.
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