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Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Old Jul 8th 2017, 12:25 pm
  #571  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Hello everyone.
Been a silent reader here lately, as we are starting to consider a move to Canada, and now is a good time to introduce myself and ask a few newbie questions.
I'm married to a doctor, who is currently in her GPST2 stage of training.
She is expected to complete her training in February 2019.
We have contacted Health Match BC and after reviewing her CV they suggested we start our application about 6 months before programme completion.

Naturally we are at an early stage, and we are still trying to understand the financial differences between a newly qualified GP in the UK and in Canada.

With the fee-for-service system, we are struggling to interpret the suggested compensation into concrete figures.

Could someone please lay it down in simple terms?
What can a young GP earn in BC (atm we are looking at Kelowna, but are quite flexible)?
We have seen data of average salaries, but they are too broad to draw any conclusions.

An example of a job offer, which we struggle to understand:

Compensation Type Fee-for-Service
Estimated Yearly Remuneration>250k Gross Billings
Physician Overhead % or amount per month
Billing Split 70% with option to buy in after 6 months/reduced overhead
Vacation Leave Flexible

Does that mean that we should expect 70% of $250k and then pay off overhead?, or is it $250k ?
What will a compensation like that translate into in net earnings (assuming only income)?
How does that compare to a UK monthly/annual salary, taking into account insurance and membership costs, etc?

Also, with only an estimation of a salary (as opposed to a a contract that states annual salary), how is one able to get a mortgage?

We have a lot more questions, but at the moment we want to get over the financial threshold.

Many thanks for any assistance.
Don

Last edited by Snowroll; Jul 8th 2017 at 1:07 pm.
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Old Jul 9th 2017, 12:17 am
  #572  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Snowroll
Hello everyone.
Been a silent reader here lately, as we are starting to consider a move to Canada, and now is a good time to introduce myself and ask a few newbie questions.
I'm married to a doctor, who is currently in her GPST2 stage of training.
She is expected to complete her training in February 2019.
We have contacted Health Match BC and after reviewing her CV they suggested we start our application about 6 months before programme completion.

Naturally we are at an early stage, and we are still trying to understand the financial differences between a newly qualified GP in the UK and in Canada.

With the fee-for-service system, we are struggling to interpret the suggested compensation into concrete figures.

Could someone please lay it down in simple terms?
What can a young GP earn in BC (atm we are looking at Kelowna, but are quite flexible)?
We have seen data of average salaries, but they are too broad to draw any conclusions.

An example of a job offer, which we struggle to understand:

Compensation Type Fee-for-Service
Estimated Yearly Remuneration>250k Gross Billings
Physician Overhead % or amount per month
Billing Split 70% with option to buy in after 6 months/reduced overhead
Vacation Leave Flexible

Does that mean that we should expect 70% of $250k and then pay off overhead?, or is it $250k ?
What will a compensation like that translate into in net earnings (assuming only income)?
How does that compare to a UK monthly/annual salary, taking into account insurance and membership costs, etc?

Also, with only an estimation of a salary (as opposed to a a contract that states annual salary), how is one able to get a mortgage?

We have a lot more questions, but at the moment we want to get over the financial threshold.

Many thanks for any assistance.
Don
Welcome to expats
Have a read of the rest of the thread- I'm not what you are asking is appropriate for an open forum. I can perhaps discuss this with you via pm once you have enough posts

Last edited by Stinkypup; Jul 9th 2017 at 12:19 am.
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Old Jul 9th 2017, 2:59 pm
  #573  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Stinkypup
Welcome to expats
Have a read of the rest of the thread- I'm not what you are asking is appropriate for an open forum. I can perhaps discuss this with you via pm once you have enough posts
I honestly don't understand what's not appropriate with a general question about understanding GP salaries in Canada , but ok...
Thank you for your warm welcome!
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Old Jul 9th 2017, 3:21 pm
  #574  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Snowroll
I honestly don't understand what's not appropriate with a general question about understanding GP salaries in Canada , but ok...
Thank you for your warm welcome!
Stinkypup only suggested that you read the rest of the thread which is riddled with medical professionals .

Most professionals consider it indiscreet to discuss their bungs.
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Old Jul 9th 2017, 9:01 pm
  #575  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Novocastrian

Most professionals consider it indiscreet to discuss their bungs.
Of course, and rightly so.
However, I did not ask for anyone's personal financial records, but rather asked for (what for us is considered) a deciphering of a Canadian job offer.

Anyway, apologies if my questions passed as intruding in any way.
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Old Jul 9th 2017, 10:14 pm
  #576  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

The National Physician Database is worth looking at; it contains lots of information about payments by province, specialism etc. in a downloadable Excel spreadsheet. (Actually several of them in a zip archive - look at "Payments_2014_2015".) I'm sure others will comment on the likely staff, surgery rental, pension and other costs which will need to be deducted!https://secure.cihi.ca/estore/produc....htm?pc=PCC476
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Old Jul 10th 2017, 1:10 am
  #577  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

I'll bite! Although I think most of this is in previous posts
See below

Originally Posted by Snowroll
Hello everyone.
Been a silent reader here lately, as we are starting to consider a move to Canada, and now is a good time to introduce myself and ask a few newbie questions.
I'm married to a doctor, who is currently in her GPST2 stage of training.
She is expected to complete her training in February 2019.
We have contacted Health Match BC and after reviewing her CV they suggested we start our application about 6 months before programme completion.

Naturally we are at an early stage, and we are still trying to understand the financial differences between a newly qualified GP in the UK and in Canada.

With the fee-for-service system, we are struggling to interpret the suggested compensation into concrete figures.

Could someone please lay it down in simple terms?
What can a young GP earn in BC (atm we are looking at Kelowna, but are quite flexible)?
We have seen data of average salaries, but they are too broad to draw any conclusions.

Varies massively- work 24/7 you earn lots but patients suffer and your quality of life is crap!

An example of a job offer, which we struggle to understand:

Compensation Type Fee-for-Service
It is what is says- you earn as you work- don't work- vacation/illness/laziness- no money
Estimated Yearly Remuneration>250k Gross Billings
Physician Overhead % or amount per month
Will depend on the office. You have to pay overheads somehow. We do an equal split for most things with a split according to patient numbers for some consumables.
You have to factor this into your finances. Vacations not only lose income but we still have to pay overheads.If I had a choice I would go with %


Billing Split 70% with option to buy in after 6 months/reduced overhead
Fair enough, but remember your OH is valuable and buy in should be small!

Vacation Leave Flexible
You need vacation! Its expected you will take it. When you arrive you will be broke! And scared of how much its costs not to work- so you will probably limit your time off. But over time- you'll want a decent amount-4-6 weeks seems average with some taking much more.

Does that mean that we should expect 70% of $250k and then pay off overhead?, or is it $250k ?
It means 70% of your earned amount e.g. 250K. Thats before tax etc.

What will a compensation like that translate into in net earnings (assuming only income)?
How does that compare to a UK monthly/annual salary, taking into account insurance and membership costs, etc?
Impossible to say, as depends on how hard you work and patient numbers, demographics, outside work- e.g. walk in clinics, hospital.
But over time- yes better than the UK.
BUT.. you have to become more business like. The Government is not sorting your pension out- you have to. Diversify.


Also, with only an estimation of a salary (as opposed to a a contract that states annual salary), how is one able to get a mortgage?
We got a letter from one of the doctors we were joining, we also used the same bank. We had no issues.

We have a lot more questions, but at the moment we want to get over the financial threshold.

Many thanks for any assistance.
Don
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Old Jul 10th 2017, 2:08 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Hi all,

Considering moving to Canada from Australia after completing GP rotation. How are the prospects for GP in Canada in comparison to Oz?
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Old Jul 10th 2017, 5:50 am
  #579  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Tameside
Hi all,

Considering moving to Canada from Australia after completing GP rotation. How are the prospects for GP in Canada in comparison to Oz?
I'm not aware of any GPs who have worked in both countries on this forum though there may be in the Oz forum.

What do you mean prospects?-that can mean several things, payment presumably predominantly? I can't compare. Unless you strike lucky and get someone on who has worked in both countries you might struggle to get your question accurately answered. It varies from Province to Province, let alone continent to continent. Why do you want to move, not settled?

I'm not sure what extra you would need to do exam wise- we had to sit MCEE AND MCQE exams despite being fully trained and having MRCGP in the Uk. They tweaked it here exams wise since then , joining up some. Weirdly they accept Australian RCGP exams but not NZ... Go figure.
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Old Jul 10th 2017, 8:45 am
  #580  
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Snowroll
Hello everyone.
Been a silent reader here lately, as we are starting to consider a move to Canada, and now is a good time to introduce myself and ask a few newbie questions.
I'm married to a doctor, who is currently in her GPST2 stage of training.
She is expected to complete her training in February 2019.
We have contacted Health Match BC and after reviewing her CV they suggested we start our application about 6 months before programme completion.

Naturally we are at an early stage, and we are still trying to understand the financial differences between a newly qualified GP in the UK and in Canada.

With the fee-for-service system, we are struggling to interpret the suggested compensation into concrete figures.

Could someone please lay it down in simple terms?
What can a young GP earn in BC (atm we are looking at Kelowna, but are quite flexible)?
We have seen data of average salaries, but they are too broad to draw any conclusions.

An example of a job offer, which we struggle to understand:

Compensation Type Fee-for-Service
Estimated Yearly Remuneration>250k Gross Billings
Physician Overhead % or amount per month
Billing Split 70% with option to buy in after 6 months/reduced overhead
Vacation Leave Flexible

Does that mean that we should expect 70% of $250k and then pay off overhead?, or is it $250k ?
What will a compensation like that translate into in net earnings (assuming only income)?
How does that compare to a UK monthly/annual salary, taking into account insurance and membership costs, etc?

Also, with only an estimation of a salary (as opposed to a a contract that states annual salary), how is one able to get a mortgage?

We have a lot more questions, but at the moment we want to get over the financial threshold.

Many thanks for any assistance.
Don
I think Stinkypup has answered your queries for this. Im in the process of hopefully heading across in November once we have negotiated the immigration forms.

A couple of points - I expect to earn around double what I could get for a salaried role in the UK but as has been said no pension.

I am not heading out for the money - I have been a GP for 20yrs now and the gradual erosion of the profession has been remarkable and seems to be accelerating. I fear for where it will be in the next 10 years and pretty much everyone my age is desperate to retire ASAP. I have had my initial visit and have a job lined up (its in Kelowna ) and that doesnt seem the case over there. It felt like GP's were still treated like professionals and you are in complete control of how hard you work.

Feel free to message me for info on Kelowna or if your wife wants specific info on the process. Its a very paperwork heavy exercise! Also once there she will need to sit more exams too
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Old Jul 10th 2017, 10:14 pm
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Stinkypup
I'm not aware of any GPs who have worked in both countries on this forum though there may be in the Oz forum.

What do you mean prospects?-that can mean several things, payment presumably predominantly? I can't compare. Unless you strike lucky and get someone on who has worked in both countries you might struggle to get your question accurately answered. It varies from Province to Province, let alone continent to continent. Why do you want to move, not settled?

I'm not sure what extra you would need to do exam wise- we had to sit MCEE AND MCQE exams despite being fully trained and having MRCGP in the Uk. They tweaked it here exams wise since then , joining up some. Weirdly they accept Australian RCGP exams but not NZ... Go figure.
Thanks for the reply much appreciated
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Old Jul 10th 2017, 11:07 pm
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Richb1970
I think Stinkypup has answered your queries for this. Im in the process of hopefully heading across in November once we have negotiated the immigration forms.

A couple of points - I expect to earn around double what I could get for a salaried role in the UK but as has been said no pension.

I am not heading out for the money - I have been a GP for 20yrs now and the gradual erosion of the profession has been remarkable and seems to be accelerating. I fear for where it will be in the next 10 years and pretty much everyone my age is desperate to retire ASAP. I have had my initial visit and have a job lined up (its in Kelowna ) and that doesnt seem the case over there. It felt like GP's were still treated like professionals and you are in complete control of how hard you work.

Feel free to message me for info on Kelowna or if your wife wants specific info on the process. Its a very paperwork heavy exercise! Also once there she will need to sit more exams too
Many thanks for the reply you someone who knows working as GP both in U.K. And Canada?How do you compare the working conditions, salary etc?Would value your kind opinion
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Old Jul 11th 2017, 1:20 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Tameside
Many thanks for the reply you someone who knows working as GP both in U.K. And Canada?How do you compare the working conditions, salary etc?Would value your kind opinion
Rich is working in UK, soon to start working in Canada
Myself, Snoopdawg and several others worked in UK, have been working for some time now in Canada
I would reiterate spending some time reading the whole of this thread, it might take a long time but it will give you most of the answers as your questions have been asked once or twice by others
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Old Jul 11th 2017, 6:38 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

Originally Posted by Tameside
Many thanks for the reply you someone who knows working as GP both in U.K. And Canada?How do you compare the working conditions, salary etc?Would value your kind opinion
I have heard of some who do work in Canada and do skype consultations with a UK firm

Like I said I am expecting to earn double a UK salaried GP for a similar work intensity. You need to work full time before you have your exams and are fully registered. After that you can work as much as you want - work harder earn more.

I would advise looking at the requirements for the territory you are looking at - everywhere is different and I had to do extra training for BC (been a GP 20 yrs!)

Working conditions and climate are my major draws to Canada
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Old Jul 11th 2017, 8:19 am
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Default re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners

I’d echo what others have said – you do need to read through this thread in its entirety as it really is a treasure trove of useful information. Most of our questions (related to GP’ing in Canada) were answered as well as other questions we hadn’t even thought of. Also, it’s a little bit churlish to snap at those who give their time freely and have helped others make the move. Financially, Canada is better than the UK (not too sure about Australia due to high pay and also lower tax system, but as with all things there are downsides despite what recruiters would tell you (sorting out your own pension, some of the systems seem a little behind NHS, patients understand that you're a business and therefore treat you as such). Also, the greater financial rewards are in underserved areas, which tend to be either small communities or rural (and often difficult to get to ) towns. It is worth visiting Canada (especially the areas other than Toronto, Ottawa and Vancouver to get a feel for the place) - we fell in love with the country when my partner was out there doing his elective in Kelowna (B.C) back in 09 and decided once we had enough experience and money we’d make the move.

Our contracts for the house are being exchanged this week. Also, our itinerary is pretty much sorted for August/September trip. Just need to get through the move in one piece - namely moving our 21 yr old cat to Wales to retire.

Last edited by Verdant; Jul 11th 2017 at 8:44 am.
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