re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Yes. First of all it is not a medical test and I am not a native. Secondly they want 7 overall score in each components of academic module. Being human I am bound to make mistakes and will struggle to get overall 7 and from recent experince, I sat the general training which should be easy and missed listening at 6.0 but overall score was 7.5, not that score matters of general training for pr. It's unpredictable!!!.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Just asking .............

if you don't have paeds, how do you manage as a family practitioner?

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Most gp trainee haven't dont paeds rotation and still work as gp. Some earlier gps haven't even done exams or any training at all in the good old days and just changed over to work as gp from various speciality and are still working. I have not done paeds specifically but have done a & e and gp registrarship where there is ample exposure and have been working 1yr post mrcgp now without paeds, so I guess I don't need to be a specialist's to show I can manage paeds patient :)

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

The problem is that by limiting your target provinces, you are effectively reducing your chance of getting a job that you want. As Snoop has said, 8 weeks of paeds is scarcely a high hurdle to jump over given all the other hurdles put in your way throughout the whole process.

What about other provinces? Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Newfoundland and the Maritimes, all reasonable options. I don't know how recruitment is set up but as anywhere else, there is a serious lack of GPs. It sounds like you are struggling in Ontario and may need to look elsewhere.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Well u are right about limiting my options, it's too early to give up and I have already paid cpso fees. So I guess it's just a matter of time before I get hooked up with an employer as there is ongoing job hunting as we speak.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Meaning??!
Haven't done any training at all.....:confused: Erm. I don't think so...There have always been vocational training schemes, that statement is quite simply 100% inaccurate:sneaky:

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

OK so they might not have had vigorous training or exams as we have today. If those gp can survive, then sure can the new gps going through vigorous hurdles in training plus exams can manage without 8 weeks of paeds rotations.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Again I disagree with your initial comment- They certainly aren't as spoon fed in their training as are the current output of nascent GPs- I am sure that their abilities certainly can match yours - Please dont generalise and suggest things which simply arent factual. I graduated in 1994- my qualifications?
BDS FDS.RCS.ED MBChB (hons) DRCOG MRCGP(with distinction) RCGP Cert (Substance misuse)-
Honorary Clinical Tutor, University of Cambridge - enough training for you?

We are very happy to help doctors through the difficult processes of working in Canada, I feel that we have a lot to offer and have helped a good number of physicians. I for one however am not happy about your assertion that the GPs who have been in the specialty for years are inadequately trained, that is a tad insulting to say the least.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

I could add that I had several medical students among my friends at university in England from 1959 to 1964, and I would say that they definitely well-trained and worked hard ...... over half of my first year zoology class were medical students, and they had to achieve higher marks that we scientists did or they were out of the medical school.

I'd hardly say that they did not have as vigorous training as you have had!

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Of course you forget that with age comes ample experience and with older style training and the hours that accompanied it, exposure to anything and everything, which younger doctors really lack these days. It really was the years of experience that my husband had in both hospital and then a switch to general practice that made our transition a smooth one and made the exams a doddle.

Actually I don't think it's paeds which is the big concern but obs and gynae which British docs are lacking. If you have a job with hospital privileges then your knowledge of both these areas needs to be good.

The statement above has really annoyed me I have to say.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Guys I am not here to compare good or bad gps. I am just saying Many of nascent gps don't get the rotation that are ideal for general practice because of being used to fill in hospital positions, are still managing to survive gp work load.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

I think paeds is different to virtually everything else. Experience is most important as a GP, along with full use of eyes and ears. Having your own helps as well.
Before I do anything, I often sit and watch the baby/ child and listen to the parents. 9 times out of 10 I'll know how I'll deal with the situation just from that.
A really sick child looks really sick!!!
Beyond that, it's working within everyone's comfort zone.Parents anxious? Then a referral to a specialist or if acute a trip up to the ER may be needed.
Parents relaxed,I'm feeling the same way- maybe we'll wait and watch or I'll just reassure.
Working with the parents is crucial, their kids are ( hopefully) their most precious belongings, we need to keep them that way😀
Kids are generally well or have mild viral illnesses, easy!! The serious stuff should probably be dealt with by paediatricians anyway

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Still don't know what you are trying to say other than digging a bigger hole for yourself :confused:

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Hi everyone

Just to introduce myself. I have moved to ontario - downtown ottawa - LMIA + supervisor + TWP.
I have been following this thread for a while.

Message for Dr Orakzai - I can understand your posts and see where you are coming from! I am a GP, qualified for 2 yrs with MRCGP and no OBG experience during training. But have extensive a&e and paed experience prior to GP training. The thought of doing 8 wks OBG and struggling to get the required letters from a british consultant - after telling them that I'm planning to leave UK for good!! (especially for a non-caucasian) seemed daunting and hence I too avoided BC. I too did EE to get to alberta and stopped trying for alberta once the cities were closed.
My advice is - do a recce trip to toronto or ottawa. Do some interviews. PM me and I ll give you further details regarding specific places I went to and were saying avg 30% overhead and 2 yrs contract - LMIA and supervised.

But beware you do have to do IELTS for PR application in ontario. I have done it in 2004 to enter UK with a overall band of 8.0 with 8.5 out of 9 in two domains. It just needs lots of practice with CDs. Its lot easier than CSA for MRCGP.

Snoopdawg - I worship you. I have been reading your posts for several months. Your posts are enlightening and have actually guided me to where I am now. But things are different in UK for IMGs and people from ethnic background. You can't understand that. Trust me - life is very difficult if you have anything other than indigenous skin colour. Its not easy to get a letter from a consultant by doing ward rounds and guessing management plans for an IMG or BME. But it is very easy for caucasian Drs in UK. Believe me, I have tried to do it for OBG to get to BC.

Furthermore things are different in UK now. GP registrars are basically used to fill rota gaps in as many specialities as possible whilst in the hospital. They don't expect it to help GP trainees and they know it. I did a rotation in breast surgery !! for 4 months - for what? I don't know. But the GP surgery part of the training (most places 18 to 20 months out of 36 months) is where new GPs get all their knowledge and confidence from. And it is intensive with several assessments and joint surgeries and reflective logs.

Tirytory - Thanks for all your valuable experiences in many different posts. They gave me an insight in to what life in Canada actually is. Thanks again for that. Almost everyone is an immigrant in Canada, whether you moved from UK or from a different country or from another country to UK and then to Canada or your parents moved to Canada. Please take this in to consideration before commenting on individual characteristics and english language skills of others. Please have some tolerance. Thanks.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Hi somzii
Nice to have another person on the forum who can share similar experince faced by imgs doctors. I have done general ielts 7.5 overall but 6.0 in listening 9 months ago, so I am good for EE for pr. Will pm u to discuss further if u don mind. Cheers 😊

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Orakzai View Post
OK so they might not have had vigorous training or exams as we have today. If those gp can survive, then sure can the new gps going through vigorous hurdles in training plus exams can manage without 8 weeks of paeds rotations.
Of course you forget that with age comes ample experience and with older style training and the hours that accompanied it, exposure to anything and everything, which younger doctors really lack these days. It really was the years of experience that my husband had in both hospital and then a switch to general practice that made our transition a smooth one and made the exams a doddle.

Just to clarify - anyone who qualified as a GP in UK at any time whether in the past or in the recent few years - is very good compared to even most of the developed world.

For older GPs who did a switch from hosp medicine - they still needed to have different specialities and training posts recognised by deaneries to satisfy the requirements to become a GP reg for a year - where they were literally treated as a GP and given a heavy work load and lot of responsibilities and gained immense experience through work.

Things are different now. Main reason is patient complaints and maintaining patient satisfaction & ever rising MDU - (paid last yr 16 k for 7 sessions locum+ 1 session ooh.) lots of joint surgeries and video consultations and reflective logs and reflecting on your own performance in front of trainers and peers - speeds up your learning cycle and gain more permanent experience with less risk and less chance of complaints from patients by learning from other's mistakes.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

To Dr Orakzai
Sure PM me anytime.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Yeah, like we weren't IMGs.... Any doctor practising here has to have a good command of English- communication is crucial being a GP
::goodpost:I absolutely agree- you on the other hand talk sense.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Hi All

I now have all my letters from previous posts, just lacking 4 weeks formal psych but have a letter from VTS stating formal psych training is part of the 12 months GP bit and assessed as such via MRCGP - hopefully will be enough if not then a 4 week psych attachment beckons!

I am waiting for the college as Healthmatch submitted my entry nearly a month ago and I await contact to extract money from me to pay for the 1st stage look at my application. Is it usual to wait this long. I have emailed the college myself and nothing back as yet? Was thinking I will need to call them to find out whats happening maybe?

Cheers All

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

It's called BC time!!!
It's summer, hot and not a lot of work gets done!!
I wouldn't worry

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Hi again

I have had my pre screen undertaken and pretty much as expected they have flagged my lack of psychiatry at SHO level - I had a letter from the VTS stating competence which would have been enough if it was signed by a psych consultant.

So my plan is find a local consultant and shadow them for a while until they feel happy to produce a letter for me - its either that or arrange a 4 week attachment.

I also need to get the letter for exam exemption from the CFPC but as I have MRCGP this is easy enough.

For anyone starting out the initial message I had from healthmatch nearly overwhelmed me as the documentation required is huge. It is possible and I finished VTS in 1997 so have had to get stuff from way back and also lots of letters from places I have worked.

What I would say is how helpful everyone has been, on this site as well as those asked for letters not one has said no and even when the letter wasnt to Healthmatch's liking they were more than happy to redo letters. Lets hope this continues and I can find someone to sign off my psychiatry!

If anyone is starting out and wants advice/ my experience feel free to PM me!

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

You are absolutely right, it is a lot of hard work but, having come out the other side of that mountain of admin and paperwork, it is, believe me, worth it. Rich, could you not just approach the Psych consultant for a letter rather than VTS- we worked with one Consultant covering one sector in Norfolk, maybe it is different in your area. It would save you the hassle of shadowing or attachments.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Unfortunately I have been a locum for a few years so have no connection with any consultants so they don't know me. I have E also changed areas too.

I'm pretty persistent so plan to find someone who can sort this for me. It's a move that I really want so will chase it pretty relentlessly 😁😁

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Hello, I am hoping I can get some help and advise esp. from someone who is applying to or has completed the Ontario process. Following practice visits, I started the process earlier this year and 4 weeks back I got positive decision letter from CPSO. I am waiting for LMIA without which I can't apply for a work permit and hence can't move forward with registration or starting work.
My employer in Canada on advice of local recruiter HFO (who does dozens of applications), applied to Service Canada end of JULY and they told me that in their experience, they should get LMIA within 2-4 weeks. We are now 7 weeks into the process and still waiting. In your experience, how much time did it take for LMIA to come through?? I am in a limbo situation, and can't move forward with wrapping up life/job in the UK. Unfortunately I had to give 3 month notice for resigning from my job in UK and I will be jobless in another 2 weeks or perhaps could locum short-term. Any advise will be appreciated. Thanks

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Oh we know about the limbo thing...

Seven weeks doesn't seem right at all. The first time the employer applied for an LMIA for my husband, he had put the wrong form in, I can't remember who picked up on that, but somehow it got picked up on. The employer chased it and then had to resubmit the right form. From there we were 10 days processing.

I suspect something has gone wrong somewhere for your application. A doctor totally fits all the criteria for an expedited LMIA. Once you get it though, it's probably worthwhile getting an EE application sorted. Also once you have an LMIA and medical you could apply for the TWP at the border. Although my husband didn't, I didn't fancy the risk..

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Hi CherC!

no worries! you can easily do Locum while waiting to sort everything out for your immigration to Canada.

LMIA is usually take 10 days to 2 weeks for those in high skilled jobs! i got mine that fast in Dec with all those holiday in < 2 years ago. So as Tirtory said! it is likely the Employer is not done good job or no body chasing it. The employer seem novice in the process. so email them and ask to chase it up or you can call the centre yourself.

You definitely can get your TWP at POE as I did. it is straight forward with all the right paper work...

I would say to give yourself about 3-4 weeks of having no job/work in Ontario to sort your CPSO license after your arrival!
good luck!....

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Dear Hasan78 and Tritory,
Thank you for your reply and for sharing your experience. My employer did this application with help of a recruiter dedicated to the area. They have now involved an immigration lawyer as well. My employer has been chasing service Canada and they have been told that they are swamped with applications and everytime they keep saying call back in another 5 business days. My employer had to leave for vacation and now they have got a lawyer involved to sort this out. I had my doubts about the way application might have been done but my employer copied me into the copy of LMIA application he had forwarded to the lawyer, where I picked on my incorrect dob, everything else seemed fine but lawyer reassured me that he will rectify the error and it will not affect LMIA processing. I tried calling Service Canada myself, but they refused to discuss anything with me- the employee. Hasan as you pointed out, once in Ontario there is piles of paperwork after LMIA and Work Permit to sort out, I am aware it will approx 4-6 weeks before I can even start work and add another 6 weeks before I can get paid,…and Winters are coming…oh how much fun that is going to be !!!!
I have already booked my flights in good faith but I m feeling really frustrated not knowing what to do.

I do have another question, Did your employers give you any assistance with relocation/ removal expenses? I asked the recruiter quite early on in the process and she said that they don't have funding anymore ??

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

No assistance here. Ontario is popular enough with immigrant doctors that they don't need to incentivize. Alberta was at the time but probably no more now..

I know when we arrived, my husband was only off for a week so clearly sorted out pretty quickly.. Also he got his first pay in the middle of February (fee for service) for his weeks in January.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Hello again, so the good news is that my employer finally heard from service canada & LMIA was issued yesterday. Bit relieved, as I can get on that flight now. Thanks for sharing your experiences & advise, I m sure I will be back soon with some more questions.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

:thumbsup:
Good to hear...remember, don't forget to pack your winter Woolies

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Thanks for the gentle reminder. We are used to the mild winters in England, so not looking forward to the harsh snowy winters of Ontario but I am hoping living close to the family will make up for that.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

You are going to need a lot more than a warm fuzzy feeling :lol:

It will seem like a mad whirlwind ( life, not the weather!) loads of paperwork, it takes a long time to get your feet back on the ground but I'm sure that you will thrive. We got through it and came out the other side as have many others

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Stinky pup, you are absolutely right, and there is no way one can prepare themselves for it.

On another note, I was wondering if any one can advise on GP resources that would be handy in practice. Is there anything equivalent of GP Notebook, NICE Guidelines, BNF, and Antibiotic Prescribing guidelines in Ontario province.
I am also keen to continue doing IUCD and subdermal implant fittings, how can I be certified for that in Ontario? In UK I just need diploma in sexual and reproductive health and letter of competence in IUCDs and implants, how does it work in Ontario?
Sorry too many questions but any advise will be appreciated.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

No subdermal implants for contraception in Canada..:confused:

Stringent Health Canada requirements restrict access to hormonal implants - The Globe and Mail

IUDs/IUSs don't need certification in BC, doubtfully needed in Ontario.
Snoop will help with resources.:cool:

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

In BC , so not Ontario specific but Canada Drug Pocket https://www.amazon.ca/Canadian-Drug-.../dp/1591032687 is a great little book
Drugs and Bugs B&D Home Page is superb- fantastic app as well- in fact just get the app- we can get free in BC- I think AB can get free as well.
Written by a local microbiologist who is one of the nicest , most helpful specialists I've ever come across, she deserves anything she gets from this.
Old Stinky reminded me re UpTo Date! No idea why I put this last. Its the most amazing website. Expensive but we get access for free via our local division of GP.
Evidence-Based Clinical Decision Support at the Point of Care | UpToDate
I refer patients to it all the time, print off info for them and use it on a daily basis.

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

hi CherC

No certification for IUD required in Ontario.

Regarding resources, when you join CMA (Canadian Med Asso)/OMA (Ontario Medical association) they have guidelines which you can access.

upToDate is definitely a good resource but expensive as snoop mention it.

Books advised to me by other GP:

- Anti-infective guidelines for community acquired infections.
- Tarascan Pocket Pharmacopoeia.(mostly USA based drugs).

Also You can use RxTx mobile for apple iPhone (there is a book version too).


-

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

A really silly question: would the risk of Cascadian subduction zone earthquake put anyone off from moving to Greater Vancouver Area?
I am a victim of too much research and this topic keeps coming up on internet searches!!
Getting a bit nervous about it, any views?

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

Well I'm always grateful to get off the ground at YVR and I'm a nervous flyer!!
You should post this question to a wider audience and see what they say.
We know it will happen but it could be anytime. I guess you put it to the back of your mind.
Our son lives in Victoria, he is very blasé about it. We won an earthquake emergency kit- no use to me in the Okanagan so I wanted him to have it- he couldn't see the point. I snuck it into his car last year! I get it that he could be anywhere and no where near the kit- but it makes me feel a little better.
I think I would still live in the greater Vancouver area, I would definitely live on most of VI or one of the gulf islands but maybe not Richmond- which may just disappear and not in a high rise.
I'd also pass on Tofino but would visit it- my surfing skills are very poor!!

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

I've lived in Vancouver since 1968 ..................

Yes, it is on the Ring of Fire that runs around the Pacific Ocean. That means earthquakes AND volcanoes.

Yes, we are always being told that THE big one is past due, based on geological evidence.

Yes, we do get lots of little earthquakes that can be measured on equipment but are not felt by humans or animals. The only sign we have is that there are 3 paintings on 2 walls that are always crooked.

Yes, there are earthquake practices in the schools, and sometimes for the public at large ............. or at least the public is supposed to do what is suggested at a certain time on a certain date as announced by the authorities. I'd guess about 20% of them do try it!! Kiddies in school do of course have to duck under the table as ordered.

Yes, we do what to do, and have an arrangement as to what to do if we are not together if it happens.

Do we worry??

Not all that much!

Yes, we are good .............. we have an earthquake kit with water, canned food, torch and batteries, matches, ax, etc, sufficient to support the 2 of us for at least 3 days ............ but I do keep forgetting to put prescription medications in there, and also forget to change the supplies every year :lol:

so we are only halfway ......... good but not excellent!


But I certainly don't lie awake at night worrying about it.

If you are worried, don't come

If you do come, don't worry about it, or you'll drive yourself and everyone else insane!


But don't forget ............ the UK and Europe also get earthquakes, and always have done, although they are getting worse now that your authorities have allowed fracking to occur!

re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
 

When we first came here, tall buildings and basements were not allowed in Richmond because of the liquefaction factor that is the danger in any delta.

However, the new buildings and especially high rises built in the last 20-25 years in Richmond have had to have concrete supports built after compaction of the sub soil down to the underlying rock strata.

It was quite amazing to drive past a new high rise in the early stages of building and hear and feel the rhythmic thump thump of the ramming of the soil and subsoil.

Our reason for not buying in Richmond in 1972 was not because of the possible liquefaction but because the bus service was so poor. I have never driven, but I did want my independence and to be able to go places without always having to ask OH.