Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
#406
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Most gp trainee haven't dont paeds rotation and still work as gp. Some earlier gps haven't even done exams or any training at all in the good old days and just changed over to work as gp from various speciality and are still working. I have not done paeds specifically but have done a & e and gp registrarship where there is ample exposure and have been working 1yr post mrcgp now without paeds, so I guess I don't need to be a specialist's to show I can manage paeds patient
Haven't done any training at all..... Erm. I don't think so...There have always been vocational training schemes, that statement is quite simply 100% inaccurate
#407
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 43
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
OK so they might not have had vigorous training or exams as we have today. If those gp can survive, then sure can the new gps going through vigorous hurdles in training plus exams can manage without 8 weeks of paeds rotations.
#408
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
BDS FDS.RCS.ED MBChB (hons) DRCOG MRCGP(with distinction) RCGP Cert (Substance misuse)-
Honorary Clinical Tutor, University of Cambridge - enough training for you?
We are very happy to help doctors through the difficult processes of working in Canada, I feel that we have a lot to offer and have helped a good number of physicians. I for one however am not happy about your assertion that the GPs who have been in the specialty for years are inadequately trained, that is a tad insulting to say the least.
Last edited by Stinkypup; Aug 8th 2016 at 6:18 am.
#409
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,873
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
I could add that I had several medical students among my friends at university in England from 1959 to 1964, and I would say that they definitely well-trained and worked hard ...... over half of my first year zoology class were medical students, and they had to achieve higher marks that we scientists did or they were out of the medical school.
I'd hardly say that they did not have as vigorous training as you have had!
I'd hardly say that they did not have as vigorous training as you have had!
#410
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Actually I don't think it's paeds which is the big concern but obs and gynae which British docs are lacking. If you have a job with hospital privileges then your knowledge of both these areas needs to be good.
The statement above has really annoyed me I have to say.
#411
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 43
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Guys I am not here to compare good or bad gps. I am just saying Many of nascent gps don't get the rotation that are ideal for general practice because of being used to fill in hospital positions, are still managing to survive gp work load.
#412
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Before I do anything, I often sit and watch the baby/ child and listen to the parents. 9 times out of 10 I'll know how I'll deal with the situation just from that.
A really sick child looks really sick!!!
Beyond that, it's working within everyone's comfort zone.Parents anxious? Then a referral to a specialist or if acute a trip up to the ER may be needed.
Parents relaxed,I'm feeling the same way- maybe we'll wait and watch or I'll just reassure.
Working with the parents is crucial, their kids are ( hopefully) their most precious belongings, we need to keep them that way😀
Kids are generally well or have mild viral illnesses, easy!! The serious stuff should probably be dealt with by paediatricians anyway
#413
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Still don't know what you are trying to say other than digging a bigger hole for yourself
#414
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Hi everyone
Just to introduce myself. I have moved to ontario - downtown ottawa - LMIA + supervisor + TWP.
I have been following this thread for a while.
Message for Dr Orakzai - I can understand your posts and see where you are coming from! I am a GP, qualified for 2 yrs with MRCGP and no OBG experience during training. But have extensive a&e and paed experience prior to GP training. The thought of doing 8 wks OBG and struggling to get the required letters from a british consultant - after telling them that I'm planning to leave UK for good!! (especially for a non-caucasian) seemed daunting and hence I too avoided BC. I too did EE to get to alberta and stopped trying for alberta once the cities were closed.
My advice is - do a recce trip to toronto or ottawa. Do some interviews. PM me and I ll give you further details regarding specific places I went to and were saying avg 30% overhead and 2 yrs contract - LMIA and supervised.
But beware you do have to do IELTS for PR application in ontario. I have done it in 2004 to enter UK with a overall band of 8.0 with 8.5 out of 9 in two domains. It just needs lots of practice with CDs. Its lot easier than CSA for MRCGP.
Snoopdawg - I worship you. I have been reading your posts for several months. Your posts are enlightening and have actually guided me to where I am now. But things are different in UK for IMGs and people from ethnic background. You can't understand that. Trust me - life is very difficult if you have anything other than indigenous skin colour. Its not easy to get a letter from a consultant by doing ward rounds and guessing management plans for an IMG or BME. But it is very easy for caucasian Drs in UK. Believe me, I have tried to do it for OBG to get to BC.
Furthermore things are different in UK now. GP registrars are basically used to fill rota gaps in as many specialities as possible whilst in the hospital. They don't expect it to help GP trainees and they know it. I did a rotation in breast surgery !! for 4 months - for what? I don't know. But the GP surgery part of the training (most places 18 to 20 months out of 36 months) is where new GPs get all their knowledge and confidence from. And it is intensive with several assessments and joint surgeries and reflective logs.
Tirytory - Thanks for all your valuable experiences in many different posts. They gave me an insight in to what life in Canada actually is. Thanks again for that. Almost everyone is an immigrant in Canada, whether you moved from UK or from a different country or from another country to UK and then to Canada or your parents moved to Canada. Please take this in to consideration before commenting on individual characteristics and english language skills of others. Please have some tolerance. Thanks.
Just to introduce myself. I have moved to ontario - downtown ottawa - LMIA + supervisor + TWP.
I have been following this thread for a while.
Message for Dr Orakzai - I can understand your posts and see where you are coming from! I am a GP, qualified for 2 yrs with MRCGP and no OBG experience during training. But have extensive a&e and paed experience prior to GP training. The thought of doing 8 wks OBG and struggling to get the required letters from a british consultant - after telling them that I'm planning to leave UK for good!! (especially for a non-caucasian) seemed daunting and hence I too avoided BC. I too did EE to get to alberta and stopped trying for alberta once the cities were closed.
My advice is - do a recce trip to toronto or ottawa. Do some interviews. PM me and I ll give you further details regarding specific places I went to and were saying avg 30% overhead and 2 yrs contract - LMIA and supervised.
But beware you do have to do IELTS for PR application in ontario. I have done it in 2004 to enter UK with a overall band of 8.0 with 8.5 out of 9 in two domains. It just needs lots of practice with CDs. Its lot easier than CSA for MRCGP.
Snoopdawg - I worship you. I have been reading your posts for several months. Your posts are enlightening and have actually guided me to where I am now. But things are different in UK for IMGs and people from ethnic background. You can't understand that. Trust me - life is very difficult if you have anything other than indigenous skin colour. Its not easy to get a letter from a consultant by doing ward rounds and guessing management plans for an IMG or BME. But it is very easy for caucasian Drs in UK. Believe me, I have tried to do it for OBG to get to BC.
Furthermore things are different in UK now. GP registrars are basically used to fill rota gaps in as many specialities as possible whilst in the hospital. They don't expect it to help GP trainees and they know it. I did a rotation in breast surgery !! for 4 months - for what? I don't know. But the GP surgery part of the training (most places 18 to 20 months out of 36 months) is where new GPs get all their knowledge and confidence from. And it is intensive with several assessments and joint surgeries and reflective logs.
Tirytory - Thanks for all your valuable experiences in many different posts. They gave me an insight in to what life in Canada actually is. Thanks again for that. Almost everyone is an immigrant in Canada, whether you moved from UK or from a different country or from another country to UK and then to Canada or your parents moved to Canada. Please take this in to consideration before commenting on individual characteristics and english language skills of others. Please have some tolerance. Thanks.
#415
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 43
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Hi somzii
Nice to have another person on the forum who can share similar experince faced by imgs doctors. I have done general ielts 7.5 overall but 6.0 in listening 9 months ago, so I am good for EE for pr. Will pm u to discuss further if u don mind. Cheers 😊
Nice to have another person on the forum who can share similar experince faced by imgs doctors. I have done general ielts 7.5 overall but 6.0 in listening 9 months ago, so I am good for EE for pr. Will pm u to discuss further if u don mind. Cheers 😊
#416
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Orakzai View Post
OK so they might not have had vigorous training or exams as we have today. If those gp can survive, then sure can the new gps going through vigorous hurdles in training plus exams can manage without 8 weeks of paeds rotations.
Of course you forget that with age comes ample experience and with older style training and the hours that accompanied it, exposure to anything and everything, which younger doctors really lack these days. It really was the years of experience that my husband had in both hospital and then a switch to general practice that made our transition a smooth one and made the exams a doddle.
Just to clarify - anyone who qualified as a GP in UK at any time whether in the past or in the recent few years - is very good compared to even most of the developed world.
For older GPs who did a switch from hosp medicine - they still needed to have different specialities and training posts recognised by deaneries to satisfy the requirements to become a GP reg for a year - where they were literally treated as a GP and given a heavy work load and lot of responsibilities and gained immense experience through work.
Things are different now. Main reason is patient complaints and maintaining patient satisfaction & ever rising MDU - (paid last yr 16 k for 7 sessions locum+ 1 session ooh.) lots of joint surgeries and video consultations and reflective logs and reflecting on your own performance in front of trainers and peers - speeds up your learning cycle and gain more permanent experience with less risk and less chance of complaints from patients by learning from other's mistakes.
Originally Posted by Dr Orakzai View Post
OK so they might not have had vigorous training or exams as we have today. If those gp can survive, then sure can the new gps going through vigorous hurdles in training plus exams can manage without 8 weeks of paeds rotations.
Of course you forget that with age comes ample experience and with older style training and the hours that accompanied it, exposure to anything and everything, which younger doctors really lack these days. It really was the years of experience that my husband had in both hospital and then a switch to general practice that made our transition a smooth one and made the exams a doddle.
Just to clarify - anyone who qualified as a GP in UK at any time whether in the past or in the recent few years - is very good compared to even most of the developed world.
For older GPs who did a switch from hosp medicine - they still needed to have different specialities and training posts recognised by deaneries to satisfy the requirements to become a GP reg for a year - where they were literally treated as a GP and given a heavy work load and lot of responsibilities and gained immense experience through work.
Things are different now. Main reason is patient complaints and maintaining patient satisfaction & ever rising MDU - (paid last yr 16 k for 7 sessions locum+ 1 session ooh.) lots of joint surgeries and video consultations and reflective logs and reflecting on your own performance in front of trainers and peers - speeds up your learning cycle and gain more permanent experience with less risk and less chance of complaints from patients by learning from other's mistakes.
#417
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
To Dr Orakzai
Sure PM me anytime.
Sure PM me anytime.
#418
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Hi somzii
Nice to have another person on the forum who can share similar experince faced by imgs doctors. I have done general ielts 7.5 overall but 6.0 in listening 9 months ago, so I am good for EE for pr. Will pm u to discuss further if u don mind. Cheers � ����
Nice to have another person on the forum who can share similar experince faced by imgs doctors. I have done general ielts 7.5 overall but 6.0 in listening 9 months ago, so I am good for EE for pr. Will pm u to discuss further if u don mind. Cheers � ����
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Orakzai View Post
OK so they might not have had vigorous training or exams as we have today. If those gp can survive, then sure can the new gps going through vigorous hurdles in training plus exams can manage without 8 weeks of paeds rotations.
Of course you forget that with age comes ample experience and with older style training and the hours that accompanied it, exposure to anything and everything, which younger doctors really lack these days. It really was the years of experience that my husband had in both hospital and then a switch to general practice that made our transition a smooth one and made the exams a doddle.
Just to clarify - anyone who qualified as a GP in UK at any time whether in the past or in the recent few years - is very good compared to even most of the developed world.
For older GPs who did a switch from hosp medicine - they still needed to have different specialities and training posts recognised by deaneries to satisfy the requirements to become a GP reg for a year - where they were literally treated as a GP and given a heavy work load and lot of responsibilities and gained immense experience through work.
Things are different now. Main reason is patient complaints and maintaining patient satisfaction & ever rising MDU - (paid last yr 16 k for 7 sessions locum+ 1 session ooh.) lots of joint surgeries and video consultations and reflective logs and reflecting on your own performance in front of trainers and peers - speeds up your learning cycle and gain more permanent experience with less risk and less chance of complaints from patients by learning from other's mistakes.
Originally Posted by Dr Orakzai View Post
OK so they might not have had vigorous training or exams as we have today. If those gp can survive, then sure can the new gps going through vigorous hurdles in training plus exams can manage without 8 weeks of paeds rotations.
Of course you forget that with age comes ample experience and with older style training and the hours that accompanied it, exposure to anything and everything, which younger doctors really lack these days. It really was the years of experience that my husband had in both hospital and then a switch to general practice that made our transition a smooth one and made the exams a doddle.
Just to clarify - anyone who qualified as a GP in UK at any time whether in the past or in the recent few years - is very good compared to even most of the developed world.
For older GPs who did a switch from hosp medicine - they still needed to have different specialities and training posts recognised by deaneries to satisfy the requirements to become a GP reg for a year - where they were literally treated as a GP and given a heavy work load and lot of responsibilities and gained immense experience through work.
Things are different now. Main reason is patient complaints and maintaining patient satisfaction & ever rising MDU - (paid last yr 16 k for 7 sessions locum+ 1 session ooh.) lots of joint surgeries and video consultations and reflective logs and reflecting on your own performance in front of trainers and peers - speeds up your learning cycle and gain more permanent experience with less risk and less chance of complaints from patients by learning from other's mistakes.
#419
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 158
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
Hi All
I now have all my letters from previous posts, just lacking 4 weeks formal psych but have a letter from VTS stating formal psych training is part of the 12 months GP bit and assessed as such via MRCGP - hopefully will be enough if not then a 4 week psych attachment beckons!
I am waiting for the college as Healthmatch submitted my entry nearly a month ago and I await contact to extract money from me to pay for the 1st stage look at my application. Is it usual to wait this long. I have emailed the college myself and nothing back as yet? Was thinking I will need to call them to find out whats happening maybe?
Cheers All
I now have all my letters from previous posts, just lacking 4 weeks formal psych but have a letter from VTS stating formal psych training is part of the 12 months GP bit and assessed as such via MRCGP - hopefully will be enough if not then a 4 week psych attachment beckons!
I am waiting for the college as Healthmatch submitted my entry nearly a month ago and I await contact to extract money from me to pay for the 1st stage look at my application. Is it usual to wait this long. I have emailed the college myself and nothing back as yet? Was thinking I will need to call them to find out whats happening maybe?
Cheers All
#420
re: Chat for and with Canadian Family Practitioners/ex UK General Practitioners
It's called BC time!!!
It's summer, hot and not a lot of work gets done!!
I wouldn't worry
It's summer, hot and not a lot of work gets done!!
I wouldn't worry