Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada
Reload this Page >

The Case for Emigration

The Case for Emigration

Old Nov 26th 2019, 8:18 pm
  #31  
F.orum Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 19,379
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
"I applied to Oxford in the '80s and was invited to an interview. It was like a scene from Billy Elliot: people were making fun of me for my accent and the way I was dressed. It was the most embarrassing, awful experience I had ever had in my life."

An American professor encouraged Hill to apply for a graduate program in the U.S.

Wiki.
Just noticed the quotes

Ok. Fair enough for Ms Hill, although to be fair, Billy did make it to the Royal Ballet.
Shard is offline  
Old Dec 2nd 2019, 11:52 pm
  #32  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Maryland (via Belfast, Manchester, Toronto and London)
Posts: 4,767
MarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond reputeMarylandNed has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Just noticed the quotes

Ok. Fair enough for Ms Hill, although to be fair, Billy did make it to the Royal Ballet.
Ballet dancers don't talk while performing though.
MarylandNed is offline  
Old Dec 4th 2019, 3:42 am
  #33  
BE Forum Addict
 
jimf's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,229
jimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond reputejimf has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
"I applied to Oxford in the '80s and was invited to an interview. It was like a scene from Billy Elliot: people were making fun of me for my accent and the way I was dressed. It was the most embarrassing, awful experience I had ever had in my life."

An American professor encouraged Hill to apply for a graduate program in the U.S.

Wiki.
No doubt she is capable and successful and she may well believe what she says about lack of opportunity for her but there's no reason to suppose she wouldn't have been any less successful in the UK. It's probably to her advantage to make such a statement in the USA, the narrative would be well received. Given the toughness of upbringing as the daughter of a coal miner it's slightly surprising that having fun made of her accent would be the most awful experience of her life. According to wikipedia she went to St Andrews. Children of poor ethnic immigrants to the UK seem to manage to make it to the highest office of state.
jimf is offline  
Old Dec 4th 2019, 9:24 am
  #34  
F.orum Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 19,379
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by jimf View Post
No doubt she is capable and successful and she may well believe what she says about lack of opportunity for her but there's no reason to suppose she wouldn't have been any less successful in the UK. It's probably to her advantage to make such a statement in the USA, the narrative would be well received. Given the toughness of upbringing as the daughter of a coal miner it's slightly surprising that having fun made of her accent would be the most awful experience of her life. According to wikipedia she went to St Andrews. Children of poor ethnic immigrants to the UK seem to manage to make it to the highest office of state.
Indeed, our current Chancellor is a perfect example. She was probably playing to the gallery, and also has probably started to believe some of her own PR.
Shard is offline  
Old Dec 4th 2019, 12:39 pm
  #35  
Assimilated Pauper
Thread Starter
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 37,776
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Indeed, our current Chancellor is a perfect example. She was probably playing to the gallery, and also has probably started to believe some of her own PR.
How remarkably mean spirited of you both. I accept her to be what she says she is, someone who has succeeded against the odds and does not deserve the sneers of those who have not walked in her shoes (or bare, soot stained, feet, as the case may be).
dbd33 is offline  
Old Dec 4th 2019, 12:59 pm
  #36  
F.orum Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 19,379
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
How remarkably mean spirited of you both. I accept her to be what she says she is, someone who has succeeded against the odds and does not deserve the sneers of those who have not walked in her shoes (or bare, soot stained, feet, as the case may be).
I think you must be charmed by her Northern lilt or something. It's not mean spirited at all, it's a fact, she's clearly a smart lass and could have done equally well in the UK had she gone to Oxbridge. Dianne Abbot did, and she's about the same age and of humble origins. No sneering made or intended.

I think there's a huge immigrant mythology in North America, as so many humble immigrants do arrive and better themselves, and like to fly that flag. She probably hears those stories and adapts her own to fit it. The fact is the minute she set foot in Harvard (all perfectly deserved based on her intellect) her successful future was assured. Rather different from the Vietnamese immigrants dishing out steaming Pho 12 hours a day.

Shard is offline  
Old Dec 4th 2019, 2:06 pm
  #37  
Assimilated Pauper
Thread Starter
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 37,776
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I think you must be charmed by her Northern lilt or something..
You really don't know me at all.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
It's not mean spirited at all, it's a fact, she's clearly a smart lass and could have done equally well in the UK had she gone to Oxbridge. Dianne Abbot did, and she's about the same age and of humble origins. No sneering made or intended.

I think there's a huge immigrant mythology in North America, as so many humble immigrants do arrive and better themselves, and like to fly that flag. She probably hears those stories and adapts her own to fit it. The fact is the minute she set foot in Harvard (all perfectly deserved based on her intellect) her successful future was assured. Rather different from the Vietnamese immigrants dishing out steaming Pho 12 hours a day.
She's not claiming to be England's Tom Vu, an inspirational immigrant, just someone who was freed from disadvantage by moving away from it. Surely you're not suggesting that the UK is any way a meritocracy; Cameron, Johnson, Prince Andrew, Rees Moog, the Brits in authority and in the news speak as one and they don't talk like me. The argument for emigration is not that it's impossible to start from disadvantage in the UK and to reach a point of pissing down the ladder; Priti Patel demonstrates that. It's rather that life is easier without the constraint of low beginnings and that constraint doesn't apply when one moves elsewhere. A poor white trash American or low caste Indian in the UK might experience the same escape.

dbd33 is offline  
Old Dec 4th 2019, 2:16 pm
  #38  
F.orum Ape
 
Shard's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 19,379
Shard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond reputeShard has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
You really don't know me at all.

She's not claiming to be England's Tom Vu, an inspirational immigrant, just someone who was freed from disadvantage by moving away from it. Surely you're not suggesting that the UK is any way a meritocracy; Cameron, Johnson, Prince Andrew, Rees Moog, the Brits in authority and in the news speak as one and they don't talk like me. The argument for emigration is not that it's impossible to start from disadvantage in the UK and to reach a point of pissing down the ladder; Priti Patel demonstrates that. It's rather that life is easier without the constraint of low beginnings and that constraint doesn't apply when one moves elsewhere. A poor white trash American or low caste Indian in the UK might experience the same escape.
It's perhaps a meritocracy skewed by class. You can't it's not in any way a meritocracy, too many examples to prove the opposite. Cameron et al have merit (top schooling) I think it's the priviledge you're railing against. Priti Patel is indeed an odd bird (and I don't mean bird as in female, just bird). Nevetheless, I do obviously agree that social class is far more of a social contraint in the UK than in the New World.

I heard a comment today that if BoJo had a working class accent, there is absolutely no way he would be able to get away with half of what he says. Some truth in that.

Shard is offline  
Old Dec 4th 2019, 2:31 pm
  #39  
Assimilated Pauper
Thread Starter
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 37,776
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I heard a comment today that if BoJo had a working class accent, there is absolutely no way he would be able to get away with half of what he says. Some truth in that.
Some, but, even in a deferential society, he could not get away with the lies and sleaze were he not lucky that a) the leader of the opposition is a ridiculous figure and b) the responsible members of his party, having been given the boot, have not organized effectively.
dbd33 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.