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The Case for Emigration

The Case for Emigration

Old Nov 21st 2019, 4:45 pm
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Default The Case for Emigration

'“Years later, I can say with confidence that this country has offered for me opportunities I never would have had in England,” Hill testified. “I grew up poor with a very distinctive working-class accent.”'

That's it, innit? If you're in the UK and you have an affluent background, you have no reason to leave. You're not going to be richer here and your children are not going to be better educated. There's no more outdoors here than there.

It's not that abroad has a "pull" just that, by circumstance, your opportunities are limited where you are so you gotta go.
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Old Nov 21st 2019, 6:13 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
'“Years later, I can say with confidence that this country has offered for me opportunities I never would have had in England,” Hill testified. “I grew up poor with a very distinctive working-class accent.”'

That's it, innit? If you're in the UK and you have an affluent background, you have no reason to leave. You're not going to be richer here and your children are not going to be better educated. There's no more outdoors here than there.

It's not that abroad has a "pull" just that, by circumstance, your opportunities are limited where you are so you gotta go.
Go on then, I'll bite!

What do you mean by "affluent background"? Is that one's parents' affluence or one's own? I get that Cameron or Johnson (in the PM sense) may have little reason to leave but I was quite affluent in the UK and, fortunately, I am so here, so it wasn't the "using equity in the UK to fund lifestyle in Canada" choice for us.

"Better educated" is not straightforward either. Would your children have had the same opportunities in the UK that you have discussed on here? Mine have gone, or will be going, to universities here and I anticipate they would have done so in the UK too. There were not going to get into Oxbridge in the UK and they have not got places at such places in North America either. I do know that they are paying considerably less for their education here than they would have done in the UK. Let's qualify that, I am paying …

My wife owned horses in the UK, we own horses here too. From a financial perspective, the move across the pond has not made a huge difference. I liked the proximity of Europe when we lived in the UK but I had seen as much of it as I wanted to see then and I have no reason to regret the lack of proximity now. Instead, I have travelled all over the US and South America instead something that, had I remained in the UK, would have been prohibitively expensive.

For us, it has been an experience we don't regret and, as we care little about being able to attend west end shows or other "culture" available in the UK, we don't believe we are missing out on much. I pay for family to visit us here far more than we got to see them in the UK (they live on the Isle of Wight and we lived in Derbyshire so were never in each other's pockets anyway).

My wife and daughter are now good friends with Amber Marshall, I doubt very much they would have got to know anybody from Emmerdale in the UK!

YMMV
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Old Nov 21st 2019, 6:23 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
'“Years later, I can say with confidence that this country has offered for me opportunities I never would have had in England,” Hill testified. “I grew up poor with a very distinctive working-class accent.”'
Based on what? and what is a working class accent btw?..everyone who doesn't speak proper like?
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Old Nov 21st 2019, 8:14 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

The lack of class mobility is definitely a much more significant issue in the UK than in Canada, I think there are even statistics that back that up. People are less judgey based on occupation here and people of completely different employment backgrounds can have a friendly conversation without bringing up how "well spoken" someone is, etc.
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Old Nov 21st 2019, 10:26 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Who's Hill?
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Old Nov 21st 2019, 10:38 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Im guessing Fiona Hill who gave testimony at the Trump impeachment hearing today.
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Old Nov 21st 2019, 11:59 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by cheeky_monkey View Post
Based on what? and what is a working class accent btw?..everyone who doesn't speak proper like?

When I left England over 50 years ago, it would have been anyone who a) did not speak BBC English, or b) came from anywhere in the North. It didn't seem to matter whether you came from Birmingham, Newcastle, Lancashire, Yorkshire or further north, you had a "working class accent" that could indeed hamper you from getting a job, or from progressing up the ladder from an entry level job.

I would have added that back then, it was also problematic if you were female, lots of jobs were basically "unavailable" to women or for promotion.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 12:46 am
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Pardon ,my posting and running.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
Go on then, I'll bite!

What do you mean by "affluent background"? Is that one's parents' affluence or one's own?
Parents. The central point being that the lower degree of social mobility in the UK means that "abroad" is the sensible choice for those without money and with accents, not so much for the well-to-do.


Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
I was quite affluent in the UK and, fortunately, I am so here, so it wasn't the "using equity in the UK to fund lifestyle in Canada" choice for us.
So life for you, as you set out here, isn't greatly changed. That's my point, the case for moving here only applies to those who are disadvantaged at home.


Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
"Better educated" is not straightforward either. Would your children have had the same opportunities in the UK that you have discussed on here?
No chance. Their cousins in the UK either got pregnant in high school or dropped out. That I was able to fund university (albeit only one degree each) was directly a function of moving here. I know people in the UK who owned and operated similar businesses to mine selling to similar organisations; they've been able to do it in part due to having the same background as the signatories at the clients'. There's no need to have gone to the right school, or any school, if your customer is an American corporation.


Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
My wife and daughter are now good friends with Amber Marshall, I doubt very much they would have got to know anybody from Emmerdale in the UK!
Probably would have had to make do with Zara Phillips.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 12:48 am
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by cheeky_monkey View Post
Based on what? and what is a working class accent btw?..everyone who doesn't speak proper like?
In her case coalminers daughter, County Durham. In mine, London.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 12:49 am
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Im guessing Fiona Hill who gave testimony at the Trump impeachment hearing today.
Indeed.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 2:49 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
In her case coalminers daughter, County Durham. In mine, London.
the first thing you need to look at if you don't get on in life is a mirror
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 3:05 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by cheeky_monkey View Post
the first thing you need to look at if you don't get on in life is a mirror
I am, of course, blessed with remarkable beauty. But success in life is primarily a function of having chosen one's parents well and then it's a matter of luck. Working hard helps, of course, but it's peculiarly vain to think that, if one has had success, it is because one deserves it.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 3:19 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I am, of course, blessed with remarkable beauty. But success in life is primarily a function of having chosen one's parents well and then it's a matter of luck. Working hard helps, of course, but it's peculiarly vain to think that, if one has had success, it is because one deserves it.
Since lowering my standards I've been achieving consistent success. I saw Ms Hill on television and she seemed very nice, and smart as the dickens. No hint of working class accent that I could discern; she sounds like the queen. If she ever had one maybe she got rid of it.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 3:26 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
Since lowering my standards I've been achieving consistent success. I saw Ms Hill on television and she seemed very nice, and smart as the dickens. No hint of working class accent that I could discern; she sounds like the queen. If she ever had one maybe she got rid of it.
Ha! Exactly the joy of moving to North America. Suddenly people think you sound like the Queen, even if you sound like Fiona Hill.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 3:31 pm
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Default Re: The Case for Emigration

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
Since lowering my standards I've been achieving consistent success. I saw Ms Hill on television and she seemed very nice, and smart as the dickens. No hint of working class accent that I could discern; she sounds like the queen. If she ever had one maybe she got rid of it.
No, her accent (although dulled by exposure to other accents and by time) was immediately recognisable as being from County Durham, at least by a geordie like me.
Yesterday was the first time I'd heard her speak but I didn't need her words about her background to know her origins.

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