Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

I've been spending a number of hours now researching moving to either Canada or Australia and I've read/listened to quite a few bad things about Canada overall.

Some problems I think are global, such as increasing prices and stagnating wages. Some problems can be related to personality and can depend on your expectations/perspectives/flexibility. But some others I wonder if it depends on which country you originate from. I'm seeing a lot of information about how Canadians won't value or hire foreigners or how you can't truly integrate into society and I see how it can be harder for some than others, especially when language or culture can be involved. I've seen a few posts from people claiming to be from developed western nations and have had problems. Maybe somebody from a 3rd world country will be discriminated against more (It's not right - nobody should receive discrimination, but I'm describing how society is, not how I am), but surely not Brits?

Perhaps this is an entitled post that could give a massively wrong image of me; I accept that. I don't expect foreigners to be treated exactly the same as natives (as with any country) and I don't expect Brits to get some red carpet either, but I just assumed that since Canadians are culturally similar (let's face it, all natively speaking English countries are to a degree). I live in South Korea now, for what should've been temporary stay that has been dragged out and my best friends here are American and Canadian. We get along fine, but they are also travelers, so this might make a difference. Of course there is discrimination in Korea (not that it's that bad though either) but I never intended on staying here and raising a family, for a few reasons, the biggest being that I will forever be an outsider and I don't want that for my kids. Perhaps I'm naive, but I assumed that for the most part, somebody from a country like the UK/Canada/USA/NZ/SA could move to any one of those other countries and be pretty much accepted in society so long as they're not a dick. Sure, some people on a council estate in England might not take kindly to somebody wielding a Canadan accent, and so it goes both ways, but generally we can all get along and become reasonably close, right? I don't just want to be tolerated and protected by law, but actually accepted into a community.

My partner is Korean. We're not married yet, but it's very likely and has been discussed. We want to move to a country we can settle down in, buy a house when we can afford it and probably have children. She knows I'm not that keen on the UK and she also doesn't want to live in Korea permanently. Life is hard here too, though to be honest in my foreigner bubble I've had a great life here so far. Korea is not a long-term option though. I think that my girlfriend will experience some form of barrier in any country because she's Asian (even within Asia, Asians can be pretty hateful towards each other) and is not a native English speaker, though she is a sociable person and has friends from all over the world. By the way, she isn't trying to climb any ladder and will be satisfied with most jobs unless she's overworked (In Aus she could just work in Starbucks for $20 an hour but I don't think that's the same in Canada).

To be honest, I thought Canada would be a pretty safe bet for being able to stay safe, have life-long friends, be a part of a community, have kids that could be accepted as Canadian, and still be able to climb a corporate ladder almost as though I were Canadian myself, with the inclusion of banter about me being British.

Am I reading the wrong stuff online? Are other people just too sensitive? I wish I could just fly out to Canada/Aus for trial runs but that's not exactly easy. I don't have the time and money for all that. I read a lot of horror stories about Korea before coming here, and some of it is true, but I also realize it is what you make of it and your own behavior can have a massive impact on your experience.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

First, do you and/or your wife qualify for a visa to live in Canada or Australia? If not then what you've read online is moot anyway.

As for Canadians being hard to get close to, there's 30+ million people in Canada. I'd say some of us are hard to get close to but some are not. Just like anywhere.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

You go to Canada - you will be an immigrant. You will not stick out as you do in Korea, but you will be a stranger in a strange land. Accept that. Why do you want to be an insider ?

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

I'm trying to figure that out. It looks like I'll only get 65 points for Australia (bare minimum) and 400 for Canada (maybe too low).

Well I don't want to be treated as an outsider. I think that's reasonable. I don't mind only having a few close friends, but potentially being limited at work because I'm not Canadian would suck.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

Have you done the points calculator for Canada or Australia? As Dorothy says - what you have written is totally moot if you don't have the points to get the visa (or, if your occupation is not on the shortage list, if relevant).

Similarly, your relationship, as you are unmarried, may not pass muster for both of you to get visas. There are circumstances where being in a de facto relationship - as defined by Immigration, not you or your friends - will suffice but you need to consult a qualified migration agent to talk about it. Having "discussed" marriage with your girlfriend won't cut it.

Canadians are no less or no more accepting than those in Australia, the UK or other nations in the Anglosphere. The countries are all not necessarily similar and that they are is a misconception that often leads to problems down the track for migrants. It takes a great deal of effort to integrate and migrating, even within the Anglosphere, is one of the most challenging things you will ever undertake. You will not just "slot in" because you are British, whether you go to Canada or Australia - or even if you return to the UK, if you have been gone a few years. And I think you are drastically overstating the problems your Asian girlfriend will have. Asians have a strong history of financial, corporate, and social success across North America and Australia and she well likely could have an easier time than you.

I have worked in South Korea and now live in Australia. You are correct that South Korea is a comfortable place for Westerners. It should remain on the table as a long-term option for you, as you do not have a visa to go to Canada or Australia, and cannot move there, until you have actually received a grant letter from the Immigration Departments of either country. Thus from what you have told us - at this stage, your options could well just be UK or ROK.

Come back to us with more information about your visa situation and we will be willing to contribute more country-specific information.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

400 is probably too low, but depends on which program you apply under (for example, FST has a much lower points requirement than FSW). You can see all of the recent points draws here - https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...-previous.html

It may suck, but a lot experience it. Essentially, without Canadian experience, you may have to expect to start in a more junior position etc, a quick forum search and read of the Wiki (there are actually two articles about how lack of Canadian experience may hinder you) will give you more info. It will also depend on your skill set and job, if you can give more info then hopefully those in a similar role or industry can advise better.

HTH.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

Korea is comfortable as a foreigner, but outside of teaching there are not many options at all. It's a dead end. Also raising kids in Korea is not a good idea at all. It's a very stressful society.

I have looked at the calculator but that's it. Also, if it helped us for immigration, we would legally get married since it's what we want anyway.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

Ah I see. Thank you for the URL.

I'm fine with taking a lower salary or a lower position (I'm inexperienced in IT at the moment anyway). This thread was more about being disadvantaged generally no matter how long I stay in Canada and not being really accepted.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

Thank you for your information. I didn't know about the lowest scores accepted.

Your post saddens me though. It seems I am way too low. With age, my points will only decrease, even if I gain more experience and can find the money to go study for 2 years in some designated area within Australia and supporting my living costs, then have my PR tied to a designated state, it sounds like I might not make the cut. It seems impossible for me to make it to either country. If I had stayed in the UK and worked in IT, I wouldn't be in this situation (I also wouldn't have met my future wife). It's a tough pill to swallow that I have probably ended my own chances of making it to one of the countries that I saw as a place I could settle down. This was a dream of mine that I've left too late.

Truly saddening. I don't know what to do and I have only myself to blame. It just seems to hard to give up completely.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

You could try New Zealand, but that will be very hard to do without a job offer beforehand (which will also be very difficult).

The UK and South Korea are not bad options at all, and living in Ireland should remain on the table for UK Citizens post-Brexit. Those are three quality options. That may not be what you want to hear at the moment but it is the truth.

Plus, you may be able to parlay your Korean experience into another East Asian posting such as Japan or Hong Kong.

You are in a good spot, you just have to realise it.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

After re-checking some other sites, and another calculator, I could get as many as 75 points for the subclass 190 (state nomination) and If I select that my partner can pass a skills test (but I don't fully know what that means at this point). As sad as I am, I don't want to fully give up just yet.

We're not really into Ireland (the UK would be better). NZ is a potential option.

In order to live in Korea indefinitely we'd absolutely have to have our own business (unless I can pull off working remotely as a programmer) in order to make life more tolerable. And that still means our future kids are gonna have a rough time and might in many ways may be unskilled in going into the future due to the Korean education system (I know that sounds horrible but I know a lot of Koreans would back me up too). Korea is a great country and it's very safe, rich and modern, but many people want to escape for a good reason. My girlfriend is not interested in other Asian countries, even though I'd be ok with Hong Kong/Singapore.

I feel bad because when I met her, she was preparing to leave Korea. Like I said, she has the money to do so and can simply enroll in university, but I can't. I have been holding her back and she changed her plans to remain with me. I was not in a position to leave previously. Even when we are married I wouldn't feel comfortable asking her to help pay for me to study so we could both leave together. If Bitcoin manages to skyrocket again, I guess I can afford to go to university in Australia for a whole bunch of points, but I'm not relying on that.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

This is completely alien to my experience. Almost everyone here is from somewhere else and we're all as integrated as each other. This week I'm working in a team of six; two were born in Canada, an unusually high ratio. One's a francophone, the other, a Mr.Singh, happens to be married to a Korean. It's fair to say that no one expects anyone else at work to be any particular culture or ethnicity; you get all sorts.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

No need to be defeatist. There are ways of getting your points up for an Express Entry app, and it's only one way in of many. Bit of a personal question, but how old are you?

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

If I may make an observation, if you have met your future wife you have struck gold. Having someone to share your life with is precious and, at least for me, more important than if I live in Canada, UK or Australia. All three provide opportunities to be taken advantage of, with many factors contributing to lifestyle differences. Ultimately, however, it is work rest leisure holiday etc. These activities are very fulfilling with someone to share them with.

Re: Are Canadians really that hard to get close to?
 

There have been a number of threads on here over the years moaning about Canadians being unfriendly. That has absolutely not been my experience, and as dbd33 said in an earlier post, almost everyone is from somewhere else - or at least identifies with the somewhere else that their parents came from. If you are the sort of person that has close bonds with friends that you have known for years then you are probably not going to reproduce that here but that is not the fault of the locals. We have made good friends in both places in Canada where we have lived and found people to be very friendly and helpful. Example - on Monday I managed to lock myself in one of our sheds - a 6x4 confined space full of duckling poo in 32 degree heat is not a place you want to spend much time in so I texted as many of the neighbours as I had numbers for in the hope that someone was at home. They all responded within 15 minutes and I was rescued by a family who live over a km away who drove over to get me out within 10 mins. Don't give up!