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Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Old Apr 13th 2012, 6:51 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

I'm a big fan of the walk-in clinic arrangements in Toronto. In the UK, if I wanted to go to the doctor for something minor, I had to take a half day off due to living a long way from work whereas, here, I can just turn up at the clinic in the PATH under my office. I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get seen either.
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Old Apr 13th 2012, 7:00 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

what about NHS walk in centres?
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Old Apr 13th 2012, 7:01 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Originally Posted by dgagitw View Post
I'm a big fan of the walk-in clinic arrangements in Toronto. In the UK, if I wanted to go to the doctor for something minor, I had to take a half day off due to living a long way from work whereas, here, I can just turn up at the clinic in the PATH under my office. I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get seen either.
I agree. I don't have a family doctor (I am registered as a patient at the East End Health Clinic due to a busybodying child but have never been there), if I have a bodily malfunction I take it in wherever I am, if the wait is more than 15 minutes I go elsewhere. Easier than getting the oil changed, all in all.
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Old Apr 13th 2012, 7:32 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I really don't think that's true. At least not based on comparing working in city centre trauma unit in one country vs. the other. Not that this has any bearing on the services available.
But it does have a bearing on affordability and the cost in canada. Especially if the cost is less than double, of that stated for the treatment in UK.

Canadian nurse start on $33 per hour before enhancements. £21. http://www.una.ab.ca/collectiveagree...rsingsalaries/
UK nurse start on £10.83 per hour. http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/...992/004106.pdf
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Old Apr 13th 2012, 7:40 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

I worked for the NHS prior to coming to Canada and have worked in 3 positions in healthcare since arriving in Ontario, both clinical and management. I believe that the NHS is superior in many regards to the Ontario system. Huge inefficiencies here, issues with OHIP billing for GPs results in billing-centred care as opposed to patient-centred care. Also, poor integration between different services results in patients having to take responsibility or themselves to move through the system smoothly, or else fall through the cracks - I've seen frail seniors with dementia discharged from hospital and told to contact their surgeon in 1 week to arrrange for a follow-up apoointment, told to arrange their own care in the communty and left with a big list of prescriptions to fill at the pharmacy themselves ... no wonder the readmission rates are so high!

My current position as a healthcare manager and my British approach to management (ie. efficient but patient-focused with as little bureaucracy as possible for my clinicians, to enable them to be clinicians and not paperwork shufflers) has resulted in more than a few raised eyebrows due to my unwillingness to steep the programs I coordinate in multiple layers of bureaucracy and my insistence on clear communication with other agencies. One of the programs I manage is only in existence to fill the gaps and ensure that patients don't fall through the cracks! Totally unnecessary if the various large agencies, such as CCAC, actually did their job, instead of wasting literally billions on bureaucracy.

The system is unnecessarily complicated and incredibly frustrating at times to work within. For example, the latest and greatest "innovation" is the Home First program in Champlain LHIN region, a philosophy of care related to maintaining seniors' functional abilities on admission to hospital to ensure a better outcome for discharge ... duh, basic care approach, does it really take an expensive flashy advertising 'campaign'?

I would be more than a little anxious if I were to be admitted to hospital here for 'care' (have had out-patient interventions that have not been pleasant experiences!).
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Old Apr 13th 2012, 7:53 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

I see Ontario only wasted a couple of dollars on these inititatives

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...h-auditor.html

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/he...service=mobile
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Old Apr 14th 2012, 12:17 am
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Experience with healthcare will change with income. What one person pays for another kay get free. Etc.
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Old Apr 14th 2012, 12:32 am
  #38  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

So to sum it all up then, it seems the Canadian public healthcare is pretty similar to NZ in that you have to pay for your own physio, dental, optical care, ambulance fees etc. The main difference seems to be that in NZ we have to pay anything from $45-$80 each time we see a GP (theoretically kids under 6 should get free appointments here, but in practice it usually costs from $10-$25), while in Canada you can see a GP for free if you have any health concerns or minor ailments you need to discuss, even if you have to sit there for several hours. The other difference is in NZ some prescription medicines are subsidised are therefore cheaper than we paid for NHS prescriptions, but anything not subsidised (such as chemotherapy drugs!) can cost $100-$1000's, which only very low income people can get any help towards.

I guess neither NZ or Canadian public healthcare is as comprehensive as the NHS, but I do wonder whether the NHS as we know it will exist by the time I'm old and retired. This is a major concern to me as I don't want to have to pay $$ each time I want to see a GP about minor health concerns, and this is the biggest flaw I see with the NZ system. People delay visits to GP's until they are really unwell, rather that be told "come back in a couple of days if you are no better" and having to fork out another $$ for yet another GP visit.

So what is typically covered by work subsidised extra insurance then? Just dental and prescriptions? In NZ you can get additional health insurance fairly cheaply compared to the likes of BUPA, BUT you can only get dental, optical and prescription cover as an expensive add-on to a comprehensive surgery/hospital cost plan, and not as a stand alone. Most people don't bother because they are relatively happy with the public healthcare and it works out more economical to pay for dental and optical care out of pocket, than to pay for health insurance + add-ons.
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Old Apr 14th 2012, 3:40 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Originally Posted by TrishP View Post
I worked for the NHS prior to coming to Canada and have worked in 3 positions in healthcare since arriving in Ontario, both clinical and management. I believe that the NHS is superior in many regards to the Ontario system. Huge inefficiencies here, issues with OHIP billing for GPs results in billing-centred care as opposed to patient-centred care. Also, poor integration between different services results in patients having to take responsibility or themselves to move through the system smoothly, or else fall through the cracks - I've seen frail seniors with dementia discharged from hospital and told to contact their surgeon in 1 week to arrrange for a follow-up apoointment, told to arrange their own care in the communty and left with a big list of prescriptions to fill at the pharmacy themselves ... no wonder the readmission rates are so high!

My current position as a healthcare manager and my British approach to management (ie. efficient but patient-focused with as little bureaucracy as possible for my clinicians, to enable them to be clinicians and not paperwork shufflers) has resulted in more than a few raised eyebrows due to my unwillingness to steep the programs I coordinate in multiple layers of bureaucracy and my insistence on clear communication with other agencies. One of the programs I manage is only in existence to fill the gaps and ensure that patients don't fall through the cracks! Totally unnecessary if the various large agencies, such as CCAC, actually did their job, instead of wasting literally billions on bureaucracy.

The system is unnecessarily complicated and incredibly frustrating at times to work within. For example, the latest and greatest "innovation" is the Home First program in Champlain LHIN region, a philosophy of care related to maintaining seniors' functional abilities on admission to hospital to ensure a better outcome for discharge ... duh, basic care approach, does it really take an expensive flashy advertising 'campaign'?

I would be more than a little anxious if I were to be admitted to hospital here for 'care' (have had out-patient interventions that have not been pleasant experiences!).
very interesting post, probably mirrors my feelings too.

it was only on returning to work in the nhs that I really appreciated the strengths of the UK system over the canadian one.
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Old Apr 14th 2012, 8:11 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

I can only speak as I find. I was diagnosed with leukaemia in January and within days had numerous tests, including non-urgent CT scans and bone marrow aspirations. No wait at all. Have been referred to numerous other specialists as a prophylaxis and encouraged to visit the GP sooner rather than later if I have any concerns. My experience of the system is that it runs like a well oiled efficient machine, however some of the hospital staff certainly lack customer service skills!
I do have experience of the NHS in the UK as I worked in it for 31 years and it is certainly something Britain should be proud of, whether it will continue as such only time will tell!
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Old Apr 15th 2012, 2:53 pm
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Originally Posted by cheeky_monkey View Post
what about NHS walk in centres?
I've never used one but I don't recall them being very widespread - e.g. there was only one that I was aware of in the whole of the City of London (as opposed to Greater London). Have a lot more opened in the two years I've been out of the country?
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Old Apr 15th 2012, 4:38 pm
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Originally Posted by cheeky_monkey View Post
its still cheaper than in Canada
The chief decider of the costs for dentistry here are location, then location, and finally location, in that order. You can get the same procedure done at a dentist in a run down strip plaza for $500 less than you would one in a fancy shiny clinic with tinted glass windows and a big neon tooth hanging outside.
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Old Apr 16th 2012, 11:57 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Originally Posted by dgagitw View Post
I've never used one but I don't recall them being very widespread - e.g. there was only one that I was aware of in the whole of the City of London (as opposed to Greater London). Have a lot more opened in the two years I've been out of the country?
I read about 92 in the country. This site has a search and I used London. There are more than a 100 results but there are duplicates there.
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Old Apr 17th 2012, 8:00 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Originally Posted by dgagitw View Post
I'm a big fan of the walk-in clinic arrangements in Toronto. In the UK, if I wanted to go to the doctor for something minor, I had to take a half day off due to living a long way from work whereas, here, I can just turn up at the clinic in the PATH under my office. I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes to get seen either.
Clearly work a lot better than they do in Alberta. Every time I've been to a clinic it's either a long wait or I get told to come back tomorrow.
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Old Apr 17th 2012, 8:13 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Canadian healthcare versus NHS

Originally Posted by Pine Cone View Post
So to sum it all up then, it seems the Canadian public healthcare is pretty similar to NZ in that you have to pay for your own physio, dental, optical care, ambulance fees etc.
Well yes, but I would say in Alberta at least there are some pretty basic plans you can get from ABC for a small amount of money that provide extended coverage for the most obvious things. For example there are the group/non-group drug coverage plans which are essentially run on behalf of the govt. by ABC. I think dental care is the real money pit for most people, unless you have a good dental plan from your employer.

But it's good dental care, Canada is famous for its dentists.

So what is typically covered by work subsidised extra insurance then? Just dental and prescriptions?
I suggest you have a look at the Blue Cross website for whatever province you're thinking of moving to. There are plenty of other providers for add-ons like dental but Blue Cross is the biggest.

The key point like I said earlier is that if the public system covers it, that is your only option. From the sounds of it in NZ most people use the public system but you can pay for private care, as in the UK. This is the main difference in Canada - there is no private care, it is nationalized, or more accurately there is a national mandate to require provinces to do it. Only with things that aren't covered is there a private choice.

So if they say you've got to wait x amount of time for an operation, short of going abroad, you've got to wait x amount of time.

There are private plans you can get that provide for coverage so you can go to the US, but I can't recall ever talking to anyone who had one, because of the cost no doubt.
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