RoadWarriorFromLP

In reading this board and searching other expat forums, I see many a lament about Canadian employers demanding "Canadian experience" (presumably before they give the job to someone else.) Could some of you please clarify how this nebulous requirement manifests itself, or more to the point, how I can claim to fit the bill?

For what it's worth, I'm American, with a US university education (including MBA from a top-tier school), several years of US professional experience, who speaks English with an American accent and some French. I also have enough points to qualify for the skilled worker visa, I know that they are called provinces, not states, and can add the unnecessary "u" to "color" if required. Plus, I can find Toronto on a map, and am generally kind to animals. (Calling the last letter "zed" without chortling is an entirely different matter, but these things take time.)

So is all of that a reasonable substitute for "Canadian experience", or are there other ways to prepare that would permit me to more easily hurdle this problem? I'd hate to attempt a relocation in earnest, only to find that I'm using my education to work at Tim Horton's.

Thanks in advance.

Souvenir

Cute post. It's fora, by the way, not forums.

Oddly enough, working at Timmy's would probably not be a bad thing. The Canadian Experience thing seems to me to be all about comfort factor.

"Does this person know how to work with a Canadian company and deal with Canadian ways and people?" This seems to be the first question asked. If you can't "fit" or be presumed to be able to fit, your other experience and qualifications don't even come into play.

That's not a rant/gripe, just an observation.

dbd33

I've never come across a requirement for "Canadian experience" in the workplace, only in the media (stretching media to include this board). I think it's just an excuse not to hire someone for other reasons, one cannot, for example say "we don't hire women who have children" without causing a lot of fuss. I'd concentrate on finding a job for which you're qualified and selling yourself just as you would in the US.

dbd33

Eh? What are Canadian ways and people? And, if fitting in with such people is a requirement for hiring, how come no one in the two Tim Horton's on the corner here speaks English or French ?

jcexit

Dealing with many new immigrants (granted mainly from the Uk) my best piece of advise would be try to get a job before you arrive. Many highly qualified people end up serving coffee, driving taxis, emptying containers in warehouses, working at The Home Depot and so on. The 'Canadian' experience does exist and it's as much to do with Canucks wanting to employ Canucks as anything else. Having said that most of my new emigrant house purchasers have eventually found jobs in their trade/profession. www.homesforsalecollection.com

Souvenir

I think you have both answered and asked the question there. It may well boil down to "like us".

Put it this way. Let's say that two people go for a job interview. In all respects of experience and ability, the two are identical. They are asked if they want a coffee. One replies: "yes please, just a drop of milk and some sugar". The other says: "double-double".

Which one is more likely to get the job?

Went to the Sens/Leafs game last night. The game aside, it was, in my view, a classic example of Canadian culture and values/attitudes. I think I enjoyed the atmosphere more than the game.

dbd33

I too like the atmosphere at hockey more than the game itself, something that's even more true of baseball. I don't follow your coffee story though, I wouldn't hire anyone who pissed around with milk or sugar. Black's quicker and they're going to be pouring on my time.

Anyway, this afternoon brings the start of that emigrant horror; the parental visit. It is with great trepidation that I leave you for the airport.

RoadWarriorFromLP

Do Timbits make you comfortable? I think that they make me feel a bit ill. (And no, I have yet to figure out why "steeped tea" is supposed to be such a culinary triumph, feel free to enlighten me.)

But seriously, out of curiousity sake, do you Brits frequently have a difficult time establishing that comfort factor with Canadian employers, assuming that your credentials, visas and paperwork are in order? I would have thought that some of these employers might be impressed by the accent and how "exotic" and "international" it might be to add a foreigner to the payroll. (And to think that a Scouser accent could make one appear to be a jetsetter...)

As for me, I would hope that to blend in, all I would need to do is toss in a few "eh's", emphasize the "out"'s and learn how to spell Sesckatchejuan...Saskitchewan...Saskat...well, nevermind.

Souvenir

The parental visit

Had mine in September. Been there. Got the T-shirt and mental scars.

Souvenir

To enlighten you, Timbits are junk food. I don't eat junk food. I haven't taken tea for years. When I did, it involved boiling water being poured over tea leaves and left to infuse. I believe this process to be called "steeping".

On the comfort factor thing, it's not specific to Brits. Back in the days when I needed to apply for jobs, interviews usually went along the lines of:

1) I love your accent; where are you from?
2) I love your CV/resume.
3) How much Canadian experience have you got?
4) Aaaaaah.......I see. We'll be in touch.

This is very much of a generalisation but you get the gist.

By the way, I am hoping that your post is rather tongue-in-cheek. If it isn't, you should probably visit Canada a few times before even getting the application forms.

GillyC

I think the "Canadian Experience" pretty much depends on what sector you're in and what job preferences you have in that sector. I came here 3 years ago from the UK IT sector and went in to the Canadian IT sector. No one once mentioned the lack of Canadian experience to me as a problem and I still haven't heard it to date. In fact, in comparison to some people I worked with, I had more experience over a broader range of clients and projects than they and no one made me feel like my experience didn't count for anything here, in fact it was considered a bonus.

That said, I've just stopped working in the world of Advertising in Vancouver and I can't say I found that to be the same; it felt like a closed shop and if you didn't go to a certain educational establishment in this city (Vancouver) your education didn't appear to mean much. However those individuals are pretty small minded as far as I'm concerned and they didn't like their little world and view of the world to be rocked by "outsiders". Then again my friend worked for an ad agency in the UK and I remember her telling me it's a pretty small world so maybe it's just that industry!

You can find lots of generalisations about the work experience but I believe it all depends on many factors and not just "Canadian work experience" i.e. sector, industry verticals, your approach and attitude, the local attitude to migrant workers etc etc.

The fact that you have an MBA and experience will most definitely count for quite a lot here I would imagine. I guess it all depends on what field you're in, or want to be in. From what I've heard about nursing and medical, it ain't a walk in the park getting in here! In fact a lot of the "professions" are probably harder due to different professional accreditation systems and a level of protectionism for sure!

Immigration is always a big risk, particularly job wise and if this is very, very important to you, it might be better to go the route of work visa first?

Now your spelling is another matter, you're going to have to learn to spell words properly! No missing out consonants or vowels just because you can't be bothered to write them, like: traveler = traveller, gray = grey, color = colour.

If you're going to live in another country you have to learn to speak the lingo - eh?

Novocastrian

Roadwarrior, does this requirement for "canadian experience" come from your own job search? In my experience, it's mostly the "professions" and the professional organizations which cause the trouble. If you are eg a teacher, a professional engineer, a doctor or a nurse, a chartered accountant etc etc expect prejudice. If you are in private sector business (as I suspect you might well be with an MBA) or eg an academic, I doubt you'll have a problem.


Edit: Didn't see the preceding post. I agree with the above.

RoadWarriorFromLP

Souvenir, perhaps you haven't seen the Tim Horton's ads and marketing materials for their new, apparently unique "steeped tea." On the whole, it's a pretty ridiculous marketing campaign for brewing tea by putting tea into water, I was wondering whether their next promotion was going to be boosting their "wet water" or "coffee that includes milk AND sugar!". What will they think of next...

Novo and Gilly, I'm just starting out at this, and my experiences thus far are a bit different. At my level in my profession (finance-related) in the US, I would generally either use my network of contacts or else work through recruiters/ headhunters to land my next position. (I'm not bound to find many positions via the job classifieds websites, i.e. Monster, etc.) The job hunting methodology seems to be similar for me in Canada.

However, I have virtually no contacts in Canada, and without a visa, I appear to be a risk to headhunters who, being paid on commission, are not going to want to invest a lot of effort in me only to find that I might lose out a position because of work permit issues. No Canadian professionals had mentioned this "Canadian experience" issue to me, but since it seems to come up frequently on these sorts of forums and I would also be an expat, I was curious as to how common it really was for expats at my career level, i.e. mid-level management and (presumably) climbing. If it really is signficant, it would make me reassess my tactics.

Souvenir

Of course I have! Risible marketing bollox.

On the other side of things, it might be a good idea for you to call up one of the headhunting companies and speak with a body, just to get the low-down. I did find that those guys would at least chat, even if they didn't come back later. I mean real headhunters, not scummy pimps.

RoadWarriorFromLP

I have already been talking to credible headhunters and others, none of whom had yet mentioned "Canadianness" as a factor, visas and permits notwithstanding. I'm just here looking for another perspective, as this "experience" issue seems to come up quite often on the internet as a topic for discussion.