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Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Old Apr 17th 2014, 3:56 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
Thank you. Is this an acceptable document to present on entry to Canada to enter as a Canadian national? Ie is it effective "proof of citizenship" at the border?
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 4:00 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Paying for the passport isn't the issue. It's the principle. Why should I have to pay $300 for a passport I might only use twice or thrice in 10 years, when I have another one that works just as good for visiting purposes. Yes, if I absolutely have to pay for the passport, I will. But if there is a way around it, i'd like to know. Oh and yeah, renounce my citizenship? What a wonderful idea. Then if there is a family emergency with my disabled sibling or anyone else in the family I can't stay longer than 6 months and could be denied entry. Sounds great. Renouncing a citizenship is foolish, even if you don't see a need for it. I don't see a need for Canadian nationality in my future as i'd leave today and never come back to live if I could, but there could be an emergency which forces me to return. Temporarily of course, but I may still need to return.

(and yes I know you were being sarcastic/just making a remark)

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to travel to Canada, as a Canadian citizen you will need a Canadian passport. Is $30/year really too much to pay for the security of knowing you can come and go at your pleasure and have the assurance that you will not be denied entry to your home country? (Yes, I know you don't consider Canada home, but it's the only country you have ever lived in) If it is then I guess you'll have to make do with giving up being Canadian and travel on your EU passport like millions of others do. Even some people who have disabled siblings living in Canada do it!
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 4:03 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Thank you. Is this an acceptable document to present on entry to Canada to enter as a Canadian national? Ie is it effective "proof of citizenship" at the border?
I don't know. I carry both of my passports when I travel. I have to leave and enter Australia on my Australian one and I use my Canadian one to enter and leave Canada.
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 4:06 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to travel to Canada, as a Canadian citizen you will need a Canadian passport. Is $30/year really too much to pay for the security of knowing you can come and go at your pleasure and have the assurance that you will not be denied entry to your home country? (Yes, I know you don't consider Canada home, but it's the only country you have ever lived in) If it is then I guess you'll have to make do with giving up being Canadian and travel on your EU passport like millions of others do. Even some people who have disabled siblings living in Canada do it!

No, it's not, really. I'll assure you I can afford that. But if I could spend $300 on something different, like a new iPhone, i'd rather do that. But after ETA comes in, if there is no way, as a Canadian national, to enter Canada other than using a Canadian passport, I will spend the money on the passport for sure. And I won't renounce the nationality either, as much as I don't consider Canada my home, it will always have a place with me since it's where my family is, and where I spent (am spending) my childhood. I have a friend from abroad that does not want to take the citizenship oath and become a citizen this summer. I told her as much as you hate it here and want to go home, like I do, your parents and brother still live here, and you may want to come back later. Besides, having another nationality is always useful. The only instance I would see it being a burden is being a US citizen abroad and having to pay US taxes.
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 4:24 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Thank you. Is this an acceptable document to present on entry to Canada to enter as a Canadian national? Ie is it effective "proof of citizenship" at the border?
Along with a valid passport then Yes it is. As for the ESTA Canadian citizens are not required to apply for ESTA and as long as travelling on Canadian passports then exempt from ESTA. Also accepted Canadian citizens can present a valid passport, Enhanced Driver’s License, or Trusted Traveler Program card (NEXUS, SENTRI or FAST).
If you are a Canadian citizen with dual nationality but don't have those documents and are say using a UK passport then you need ESTA if entering via air or sea to the USA and you couldn't then use a land crossing unless you had a valid Canadian PR card as proof of residence. This is where this comes into play
Travel may not terminate in contiguous territory or adjacent islands unless the traveler is a resident of one of those areas.
As I keep saying if dual nationality Canadian/other then have 2 x passports if you wish to avoid perceived hassles when coming back to Canada directly or via the USA.
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 5:11 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Well they are going to have to make it somewhat easy; dual citizenship is legal in Canada and in my (soon to be) other country of citizenship. (Malta)
They aren't going to have to do anything. Dual citizenship may well be legal, however that doesn't mean that an obligation (either legal or de-facto) to use a Canadian passport in Canada is unreasonable.


With ETA, based on what you said, he is forced to either lie on the ETA form and say he is not a Canadian citizen/PR and get an ETA as a Maltese national, which puts him at risk of being denied entry (actually not really since if one can prove citizenship you cannot be deported) , or worse, loss of Canadian nationality. (although I doubt that.) If he says he is a citizen/PR on the ETA form he will be denied ETA. So he is de facto forced to spend C$300 on a Canadian passport ? Gimme a break. That's absurd. Where is the people living in the country's voting on this ?
It's all "may be" rather than "will be" as far as ETA is concerned at this stage. And I would expect that most Canadians would see it as reasonable that Canadian citizens should be expected to use Canadian passports, in Canada.

As a side note, I guess you could always fly to the US and enter Canada by land, negating the need for ETA
Except that, as others have said, the U.S. visa waiver program does not allow one-way commercial travel into the United States. So your hypothetical sole-Maltese passport holder would need to get a U.S. tourist visa to fly into the United States. Unless that person had a return ticket back to Malta or somewhere else outside North America.

In addition, it's often best to avoid complicated scenarios when crossing borders. And arriving in the U.S. with a Maltese passport and either a tourist visa or return ticket on visa waiver program/ESTA, with intention to spend time in Canada, is likely to invite questions about status in Canada. Questions that might be answerable, but at risk of causing avoidable scrutiny/delay.

The simplest way (for a dual Canadian/other citizen) to fly into the U.S. with intention to cross the land frontier into Canada is to get a Canadian passport.
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 6:13 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Yeah I get what you mean. I like the open borders in the EU because of the freedom of movement, which will allow me to emigrate to a better place. (it's not 100% that I am going to Malta. It's home and i'd love to but the economy is just sh** down there, so even with a degree I wouldn't be making a desirable salary. It would be better for me to work in the UK and have enough money to travel to Malta on weekends and holidays.)

I can definitely understand your point of view though because in Malta we have the "boat people" . (ie African refugees who come on their rickety boats seeking asylum in Malta and Italy, making the already bad economy in Malta even worse because the Maltese taxpayer pays for the expenses of these migrants.)

Though I understand and support their reason for coming, I think the EU should send them elsewhere than Malta/Italy, as the economies there aren't very good.
Well I really don't think you can compare illegal immigrants from North Africa trying to enter Malta/Italy to Eastern European (EU) nationals travelling within the EU for work. Firstly, they enter the country legally and secondly they have a right to work in Western Europe as EU nationals. Illegal immigrants from North Africa meanwhile are trying to enter the EU illegally and if successfully they would be working illegally. So it is pretty different.

I am assuming that you are planning on working in the UK on the back of your Maltese citizenship? If so, that would be no different to an EU national from Eastern Europe working in the UK, so you have inadvertently compared yourself to the illegal immigrants from North Africa. Why the EU would send them elsewhere I don't know.


Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
No, it's not, really. I'll assure you I can afford that. But if I could spend $300 on something different, like a new iPhone, i'd rather do that. But after ETA comes in, if there is no way, as a Canadian national, to enter Canada other than using a Canadian passport, I will spend the money on the passport for sure. And I won't renounce the nationality either, as much as I don't consider Canada my home, it will always have a place with me since it's where my family is, and where I spent (am spending) my childhood. I have a friend from abroad that does not want to take the citizenship oath and become a citizen this summer. I told her as much as you hate it here and want to go home, like I do, your parents and brother still live here, and you may want to come back later. Besides, having another nationality is always useful. The only instance I would see it being a burden is being a US citizen abroad and having to pay US taxes.
So $300 for a travel document that lasts 10 years is something to moan about, but the same amount of money (and more!) for a phone that is barely updated from the previous version and will have be relevant for 2 years max is fine. I am going to assume that with age your priorities will change. First World Problems!

Dual Citizenship is not attainable for everyone, especially not as easily as you may be getting it (descent? rather than having to find sponsorship via employment etc.). The fact that you are able to apply for citizenship in a country you have barely spent any time in, in a country which is within the EU and will give you access to it's other member states is not something to be taken lightly.

As you yourself have pointed out, there are many, many people who risk their lives, and many more who die trying to reach the Europe. Having to pay $300 for a passport, or having to use a certain passport to enter a certain country is not much of a price to pay really.
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 6:29 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
I personally don't see a problem paying $300 for a 10 year passport for Canada. That works out to $30 per year for a travel document.
Nor do I, if I had the ability to get a Canadian Passport. I did get curious though, and checked to see if the US would charge me more for renewal being outside the US, but living in Canada they charge the same rate as those within the US. So like 11/yr. Didn't realize how cheap it actually is for the lifespan of the thing.....lol
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 8:40 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by burks View Post
You seem to like the open borders in Europe for the convenience it provides you to travel from one to the other. But there are many in Europe who do not like it. You will find a lot of Europeans who would describe other European nations 'annoying' and 'arrogant'. There are also many people in Western Europe who resent the amount of Eastern Europeans who they see as having 'taken their jobs' since the EU has expanded.
+ 1
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 11:55 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

This is such a non-question! Really! Get it!
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 1:48 pm
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Along with a valid passport then Yes it is. As for the ESTA Canadian citizens are not required to apply for ESTA and as long as travelling on Canadian passports then exempt from ESTA. Also accepted Canadian citizens can present a valid passport, Enhanced Driver’s License, or Trusted Traveler Program card (NEXUS, SENTRI or FAST).
If you are a Canadian citizen with dual nationality but don't have those documents and are say using a UK passport then you need ESTA if entering via air or sea to the USA and you couldn't then use a land crossing unless you had a valid Canadian PR card as proof of residence. This is where this comes into play
Travel may not terminate in contiguous territory or adjacent islands unless the traveler is a resident of one of those areas.
As I keep saying if dual nationality Canadian/other then have 2 x passports if you wish to avoid perceived hassles when coming back to Canada directly or via the USA.
Thanks FL. Now is what others have said about having a return ticket meaning you can cross the land border on an ESTA passport? I would most likely only be coming back to Canada for visits, which would mean i'd have a return ticket back to where i'm living.

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
They aren't going to have to do anything. Dual citizenship may well be legal, however that doesn't mean that an obligation (either legal or de-facto) to use a Canadian passport in Canada is unreasonable.


I would agree. If the requirement is there, I will follow it. I was just asking if there was a possibility I would not have to renew the Canadian passport from abroad if I didn't need it.

It's all "may be" rather than "will be" as far as ETA is concerned at this stage. And I would expect that most Canadians would see it as reasonable that Canadian citizens should be expected to use Canadian passports, in Canada.

True.

Except that, as others have said, the U.S. visa waiver program does not allow one-way commercial travel into the United States. So your hypothetical sole-Maltese passport holder would need to get a U.S. tourist visa to fly into the United States. Unless that person had a return ticket back to Malta or somewhere else outside North America.

In addition, it's often best to avoid complicated scenarios when crossing borders. And arriving in the U.S. with a Maltese passport and either a tourist visa or return ticket on visa waiver program/ESTA, with intention to spend time in Canada, is likely to invite questions about status in Canada. Questions that might be answerable, but at risk of causing avoidable scrutiny/delay.

Yeah I asked FL that one above, so I guess flying into DTW (Detroit) from Malta on a Maltese passport with intention to cross the border and visit family is doable as long as there is a return ticket. It's an easy explanation IMO. The flight is cheaper into/out of DTW, so thats why I flew in there, I flew in in order to visit my family in Canada, then I will return to Malta via DTW.

The simplest way (for a dual Canadian/other citizen) to fly into the U.S. with intention to cross the land frontier into Canada is to get a Canadian passport.
Quite clearly. I will probably end up renewing it from abroad when the time comes.
Originally Posted by burks View Post
Well I really don't think you can compare illegal immigrants from North Africa trying to enter Malta/Italy to Eastern European (EU) nationals travelling within the EU for work. Firstly, they enter the country legally and secondly they have a right to work in Western Europe as EU nationals. Illegal immigrants from North Africa meanwhile are trying to enter the EU illegally and if successfully they would be working illegally. So it is pretty different.
True. I was just saying I understand your point of view on that.
I am assuming that you are planning on working in the UK on the back of your Maltese citizenship? If so, that would be no different to an EU national from Eastern Europe working in the UK, so you have inadvertently compared yourself to the illegal immigrants from North Africa. Why the EU would send them elsewhere I don't know.

Yes. Why would I apply for a visa with my Canadian passport when I can work legally with my EU passport? The difference between me and the EU nationals from Eastern Europe is i'm not coming to the UK to use your welfare system or the NHS. I would be coming there to work and contribute to the British economy, not just take from it. Now i'm sure there are some of the Eastern Europeans that are planning to do just that, but most of them from what i've seen on the forum here and on the news are just there for the welfare and the NHS.


So $300 for a travel document that lasts 10 years is something to moan about, but the same amount of money (and more!) for a phone that is barely updated from the previous version and will have be relevant for 2 years max is fine. I am going to assume that with age your priorities will change. First World Problems!

True, but I like my gadgets! Thats my hobby, besides travel and moving abroad research. I'm kind of a gadget head.
Dual Citizenship is not attainable for everyone, especially not as easily as you may be getting it (descent? rather than having to find sponsorship via employment etc.). The fact that you are able to apply for citizenship in a country you have barely spent any time in, in a country which is within the EU and will give you access to it's other member states is not something to be taken lightly.

Yeah i'm getting it by descent... The law changed in my favour in 2007, before 2007 only one generation born abroad could get citizenship... Like the UK and Canada's laws are now about that. I am extremely lucky that Malta extends citizenship indefinetly by descent, as I really don't know what I would do without it. Moving to Malta is near impossible on a non-EU passport. The border officials have a "habit" of kicking non-EUers out of the country after 4 years, requesting that they spend 6 months out of the schengen area and then reapply for a visa. This is so that people don't get PR after 5 years residence.
As you yourself have pointed out, there are many, many people who risk their lives, and many more who die trying to reach the Europe. Having to pay $300 for a passport, or having to use a certain passport to enter a certain country is not much of a price to pay really.
Like I have said before, I don't mind paying the price if there is a de facto or legal requirement to do so. But as of present (pre-ETA) there is not. My grandparents enter on Maltese passports with Canadian citizenship cards (they live in Malta) all the time, and they usually stay in Canada for 7 mos to a year at a time. I was just wondering if after ETA comes into force there will still be that "loophole" to enter with alternate proof of citizenship other than the Canadian passport. It seems not, so I will resign to paying the fee and renewing it. There is also the added benefit of traveling as a Canadian to places where Maltese passports are not visa free.
.

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Old Apr 17th 2014, 2:14 pm
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Thanks FL. Now is what others have said about having a return ticket meaning you can cross the land border on an ESTA passport? I would most likely only be coming back to Canada for visits, which would mean i'd have a return ticket back to where i'm living.




.
There is no ESTA passport per se ESTA is an application for visitors seeking to enter the USA for tourism or business under the Visa Waiver Programme.
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/
What you intend to do and many others enquire about is flying into the USA and then travelling to Canada by land (no connecting flight). This is not allowed under their rules. Now having a return ticket back to where you came from from a US airport MIGHT not arouse as much suspicion but really you have no intention of visiting and staying in the USA per se you are just using their airports as a cheaper means of travel.
So now you arrive at a US airport having applied for the ESTA and a return ticket.
The US officers now ask you where you are staying, what will you be doing in the USA etc etc what will be your answers with no hotel bookings and itinerary etc.
Get a bad officer then you might just be on the next plane back.
How much money will you have saved then?
Cheaper flights maybe but inherent risks. Different story if you have friends/relatives in the USA with an address and contact numbers
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Yeah I get what you mean. I like the open borders in the EU because of the freedom of movement, which will allow me to emigrate to a better place. (it's not 100% that I am going to Malta. It's home and i'd love to but the economy is just sh** down there, so even with a degree I wouldn't be making a desirable salary. It would be better for me to work in the UK and have enough money to travel to Malta on weekends and holidays.)
Don't assume Europe or the UK is the land of milk and honey. With the UK expect a lot more miserable and rude people then what you are used to in Canada
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 3:40 pm
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Mmm, I'd also add that you're likely to have a lot less money than you realise for zipping over to Malta. Rent in the UK is exceptionally expensive and set to continue rising for quite some time (not including council tax, etc), and then there is living! In fact, flying to Malta might be one of the cheaper things you can do... if you haven't been bled dry already.
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 3:47 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by beckiwoo View Post
Don't assume Europe or the UK is the land of milk and honey. With the UK expect a lot more miserable and rude people then what you are used to in Canada
He must be used to that already, being a member of BE and all! haha!
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