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Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Old Apr 15th 2014, 9:39 pm
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
It doesn't get much more open than in parts of BC, Alberta and the Prairies
Just walk across a field and voila in the US or Canada.
lol..you bad man ,,,what wi all the drones flying overhead,and the mobile units out at night.
not forgetting the no phone/two way radio dead zones that just happen to occur next to the US border posts.
seems the US border guards think all off Canada wants to live in the land off the free, well according to the tv show.
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Old Apr 16th 2014, 1:07 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Some discussion at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%..._States_border

As to the rest, Australia started the concept of ETA in 1996 or so (it's not a U.S. idea). And since Canadian citizens in theory won't be eligible for ETA, it may well impose a de-facto requirement for Canadian citizens to use a Canadian passport for commercial travel to Canada. Equivalent to what is already the case in Australia.
Doesn't Australian law require you to enter with an Aus passport anyways regardless of ETA? (If you are dual Aus-Kiwi, even though Kiwi passports don't need ETA, you need to enter Aus on your Aus passport, you cannot enter on the Kiwi passport according to Aus law unless you are one of the pre-2003 PR-on-arrival Kiwis. Then you can use the Kiwi passport.)

But unless Canada specifically changes the law to say you must use a Canadian passport to enter Canada if you are a citizen, I think entering on a foreign passport with an ETA (so the airline won't deny you boarding) and proof of citizenship in the form of: expired Cdn passport, Cdn birth/naturalisation certificate, Cdn citizenship certificate, or all of the above should be fine.


My concern though is of dual Canadian-European citizens traveling abroad from Canada using their European passport. How do I prove to this new exit requirement that I am not a European overstayer (normally I would say just use the EU passport and don't show the Cdn one till you are back in Canada, but obviously with this new stuff that wont work anymore) , and that I am in fact Canadian whilst still booking my flights / showing the airline that I am an EU citizen? As I want to use the EU passport in Europe for the shorter lines and my European Health Insurance provided by Malta. (yes even though I don't live there I can still access the national healthcare system and EHIC)

And then how do you do it on the way back? You need to show the EU passport to exit Europe as you don't have a EU entry stamp in the Canadian passport, and the airline needs to record that as such. But they also need to advance CBSA the info that I am a Canadian citizen and resident, not just an EU tourist.

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Old Apr 16th 2014, 7:00 pm
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Doesn't Australian law require you to enter with an Aus passport anyways regardless of ETA? (If you are dual Aus-Kiwi, even though Kiwi passports don't need ETA, you need to enter Aus on your Aus passport, you cannot enter on the Kiwi passport according to Aus law unless you are one of the pre-2003 PR-on-arrival Kiwis. Then you can use the Kiwi passport.)
Since Australia requires all non-citizens to get a visa, and since Australians can't have a visa, there's a de-facto passport requirement. However, in the context of criminal law with sanctions for non-compliance, there is no such law in Australia. One of the many forum myths out there.

An Australian citizen with a foreign passport won't get to travel to Australia unless he or she has a visa. He or she would need to convince the ETA system to grant a visa in the foreign passport. Technically it shouldn't do so, but in practice it might. And it would involve doing some explaining to Customs and Immigration on arrival, which is always best avoided unless there is a situation of real emergency.

If the person was a dual NZ/Aus citizen, then he or she could normally travel to Australia with a New Zealand passport, not needing an ETA, but would have the same issues with Customs on arrival. Not advisable as first choice.

There is a document called an Australian Declaratory Visa that Australian citizens can, in limited circumstances, have stamped in a foreign passport:
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/931.pdf

We don't know the details of how Canada's ETA system will work, but, for example, it could ask a question about whether the applicant is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident and then deny ETA clearance to someone who answers with a positive. Or it may not. If it is restricted to non-Canadian citizens/PRs, there will be a de-facto passport requirement in place.
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Old Apr 16th 2014, 7:50 pm
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Harper's an idiot. I won't be voting for him when I can vote. He's too Israel-and-US cozy. We need a leader that is pro-Canada and pro-Canadians, not one that is just focussed on making the US and it's satellite state Israel happy and volunteering our information to the US. (and no this isn't just judged on this situation, it's judged on alot of other situations too... Heard of the TPP?)
Yeah but those agreements actually benefit citizens, ie no border controls in Schengen states and freedom of movement across the EU... I don't see how the US having access to my travel records is really in my interest.
You've just completely contradicted yourself with those two statements - the purpose of this agreement between the US and Canada is to benefit people in both countries, but more in the case of Canada. The idea is to cut through duplicate inspections and other delays - which the EU did a long time ago.

Israel has a had separate far more severe screening procedure agreement with Canada and the US for many years and I appreciate what you're saying about British subjects but I think what they're getting at is BOTCs like I said in contiguous territories, who used to be considered British subjects. I think they're still described in the pre-existing agreements as British subjects so they would be in new regulations, although technically now they're BOTCs.

As for the passport issue, that already exists, you simply book your ticket as a Canadian using your Canadian passport and show your other passport at entry to the other country.
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Old Apr 16th 2014, 7:56 pm
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
But unless Canada specifically changes the law to say you must use a Canadian passport to enter Canada if you are a citizen, I think entering on a foreign passport with an ETA (so the airline won't deny you boarding) and proof of citizenship in the form of: expired Cdn passport, Cdn birth/naturalisation certificate, Cdn citizenship certificate, or all of the above should be fine.
Part of the purpose of the exercise seems to be to stop people from doing an end-run around the immigration procedures by entering as a visitor. Say you are a PR abroad and your PR card has expired, you're supposed to get an entry permit but a lot of people just go as a visitor. With the ETA in place, you won't be able to do that because it will be linked into CBSA and CIC.

I suspect it will also mean Canadians who are dual-citizens will find it more difficult to travel using a foreign passport, although it's not illegal to do that at present.
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 12:31 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
You've just completely contradicted yourself with those two statements - the purpose of this agreement between the US and Canada is to benefit people in both countries, but more in the case of Canada. The idea is to cut through duplicate inspections and other delays - which the EU did a long time ago.
Was not intended. I don't want open borders with the U.S. I would not vote for freedom of movement between the two countries, or an EU-like union between them. (there is even talk of including Mexico in something like this ? )

I quite like the EU and open borders in the EU, because none of the countries in the EU are annoying and arrogant and think they rule the world and can enforce their principles/laws throughout the world. (aka World Police, aka the United States)
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 12:41 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
Part of the purpose of the exercise seems to be to stop people from doing an end-run around the immigration procedures by entering as a visitor. Say you are a PR abroad and your PR card has expired, you're supposed to get an entry permit but a lot of people just go as a visitor. With the ETA in place, you won't be able to do that because it will be linked into CBSA and CIC.

I suspect it will also mean Canadians who are dual-citizens will find it more difficult to travel using a foreign passport, although it's not illegal to do that at present.
Well they are going to have to make it somewhat easy; dual citizenship is legal in Canada and in my (soon to be) other country of citizenship. (Malta)

Take this situation
Dual Maltese-Canadian citizen lives in Malta, wants to travel to Canada to visit his family. Without ETA, he could just go on his Maltese passport to make things simple (he probably doesn't even have a Canadian one as they are now almost CAN$300 to renew from abroad whilst his Maltese passport costs him about €50 to renew from inside Malta) , and show his Ontario birth certificate together with his Maltese passport to the CBSA agent to prove Canadian nationality and enter as a citizen. Simple.

With ETA, based on what you said, he is forced to either lie on the ETA form and say he is not a Canadian citizen/PR and get an ETA as a Maltese national, which puts him at risk of being denied entry (actually not really since if one can prove citizenship you cannot be deported) , or worse, loss of Canadian nationality. (although I doubt that.) If he says he is a citizen/PR on the ETA form he will be denied ETA. So he is de facto forced to spend C$300 on a Canadian passport ? Gimme a break. That's absurd. Where is the people living in the country's voting on this ?



As a side note, I guess you could always fly to the US and enter Canada by land, negating the need for ETA
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 1:30 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Was not intended. I don't want open borders with the U.S. I would not vote for freedom of movement between the two countries, or an EU-like union between them. (there is even talk of including Mexico in something like this ? )

I quite like the EU and open borders in the EU, because none of the countries in the EU are annoying and arrogant and think they rule the world and can enforce their principles/laws throughout the world. (aka World Police, aka the United States)
You seem to like the open borders in Europe for the convenience it provides you to travel from one to the other. But there are many in Europe who do not like it. You will find a lot of Europeans who would describe other European nations 'annoying' and 'arrogant'. There are also many people in Western Europe who resent the amount of Eastern Europeans who they see as having 'taken their jobs' since the EU has expanded.

So you may have to pay more for a passport now.. That's part of being an expat. I will have to pay more to renew my British passport from Canada than I would if I were to still reside in the UK.

..I also don't think that issue of dual citizens entering and leaving the country is a big issue during elections.
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 2:19 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
none of the countries in the EU are annoying and arrogant and think they rule the world and can enforce their principles/laws throughout the world
Oh the irony of making that claim on a site called British expats
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 2:20 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Well they are going to have to make it somewhat easy; dual citizenship is legal in Canada and in my (soon to be) other country of citizenship. (Malta)

Take this situation
Dual Maltese-Canadian citizen lives in Malta, wants to travel to Canada to visit his family. Without ETA, he could just go on his Maltese passport to make things simple (he probably doesn't even have a Canadian one as they are now almost CAN$300 to renew from abroad whilst his Maltese passport costs him about €50 to renew from inside Malta) , and show his Ontario birth certificate together with his Maltese passport to the CBSA agent to prove Canadian nationality and enter as a citizen. Simple.

With ETA, based on what you said, he is forced to either lie on the ETA form and say he is not a Canadian citizen/PR and get an ETA as a Maltese national, which puts him at risk of being denied entry (actually not really since if one can prove citizenship you cannot be deported) , or worse, loss of Canadian nationality. (although I doubt that.) If he says he is a citizen/PR on the ETA form he will be denied ETA. So he is de facto forced to spend C$300 on a Canadian passport ? Gimme a break. That's absurd. Where is the people living in the country's voting on this ?



As a side note, I guess you could always fly to the US and enter Canada by land, negating the need for ETA
An Ontario birth certificate is not prima facie evidence of Canadian citizenship however it is an indicator of citizenship.
A Canadian provincial birth certificate is a good indicator of Canadian citizenship, but does not contain a photograph. The BSO must therefore be satisfied that the person is the rightful holder.
You would need the ESTA to fly into the USA however according to the US regulations visa waiver country citizens cannot land at a US airport and then travel by land to Canada they need a connecting flight
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/WebHel...Help_1.htm#WP3
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 2:25 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by Vulcanoid View Post
Oh the irony of making that claim on a site called British expats
Some need to do some research on the British Empire to see how many countries the UK invaded and policed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9...uxembourg.html
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 2:36 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Well they are going to have to make it somewhat easy; dual citizenship is legal in Canada and in my (soon to be) other country of citizenship. (Malta)

Take this situation
Dual Maltese-Canadian citizen lives in Malta, wants to travel to Canada to visit his family. Without ETA, he could just go on his Maltese passport to make things simple (he probably doesn't even have a Canadian one as they are now almost CAN$300 to renew from abroad whilst his Maltese passport costs him about €50 to renew from inside Malta) , and show his Ontario birth certificate together with his Maltese passport to the CBSA agent to prove Canadian nationality and enter as a citizen. Simple.

With ETA, based on what you said, he is forced to either lie on the ETA form and say he is not a Canadian citizen/PR and get an ETA as a Maltese national, which puts him at risk of being denied entry (actually not really since if one can prove citizenship you cannot be deported) , or worse, loss of Canadian nationality. (although I doubt that.) If he says he is a citizen/PR on the ETA form he will be denied ETA. So he is de facto forced to spend C$300 on a Canadian passport ? Gimme a break. That's absurd. Where is the people living in the country's voting on this ?



As a side note, I guess you could always fly to the US and enter Canada by land, negating the need for ETA
So here's an idea. Why don't you just renounce your Canadian citizenship when you go "home"? Think of all the money you're going to save! And, you get the added benefit of not having to worry about what happens in Canada anymore.

I personally don't see a problem paying $300 for a 10 year passport for Canada. That works out to $30 per year for a travel document.
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 3:45 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by burks View Post
You seem to like the open borders in Europe for the convenience it provides you to travel from one to the other. But there are many in Europe who do not like it. You will find a lot of Europeans who would describe other European nations 'annoying' and 'arrogant'. There are also many people in Western Europe who resent the amount of Eastern Europeans who they see as having 'taken their jobs' since the EU has expanded.

So you may have to pay more for a passport now.. That's part of being an expat. I will have to pay more to renew my British passport from Canada than I would if I were to still reside in the UK.

..I also don't think that issue of dual citizens entering and leaving the country is a big issue during elections.
Yeah I get what you mean. I like the open borders in the EU because of the freedom of movement, which will allow me to emigrate to a better place. (it's not 100% that I am going to Malta. It's home and i'd love to but the economy is just sh** down there, so even with a degree I wouldn't be making a desirable salary. It would be better for me to work in the UK and have enough money to travel to Malta on weekends and holidays.)

I can definitely understand your point of view though because in Malta we have the "boat people" . (ie African refugees who come on their rickety boats seeking asylum in Malta and Italy, making the already bad economy in Malta even worse because the Maltese taxpayer pays for the expenses of these migrants.)

Though I understand and support their reason for coming, I think the EU should send them elsewhere than Malta/Italy, as the economies there aren't very good.

Originally Posted by Vulcanoid View Post
Oh the irony of making that claim on a site called British expats

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
An Ontario birth certificate is not prima facie evidence of Canadian citizenship however it is an indicator of citizenship.
A Canadian provincial birth certificate is a good indicator of Canadian citizenship, but does not contain a photograph. The BSO must therefore be satisfied that the person is the rightful holder.
You would need the ESTA to fly into the USA however according to the US regulations visa waiver country citizens cannot land at a US airport and then travel by land to Canada they need a connecting flight
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/WebHel...Help_1.htm#WP3
Well that's just about the stupidest thing i've ever heard... But it is America after all. What "security risk" does traveling by land to Canada have, exactly?

What about Canadian citizens (who are visa waiver citizens but not required to do ESTA) who are landing in the US and traveling by land to Canada because they live there?

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
So here's an idea. Why don't you just renounce your Canadian citizenship when you go "home"? Think of all the money you're going to save! And, you get the added benefit of not having to worry about what happens in Canada anymore.

I personally don't see a problem paying $300 for a 10 year passport for Canada. That works out to $30 per year for a travel document.
Paying for the passport isn't the issue. It's the principle. Why should I have to pay $300 for a passport I might only use twice or thrice in 10 years, when I have another one that works just as good for visiting purposes. Yes, if I absolutely have to pay for the passport, I will. But if there is a way around it, i'd like to know. Oh and yeah, renounce my citizenship? What a wonderful idea. Then if there is a family emergency with my disabled sibling or anyone else in the family I can't stay longer than 6 months and could be denied entry. Sounds great. Renouncing a citizenship is foolish, even if you don't see a need for it. I don't see a need for Canadian nationality in my future as i'd leave today and never come back to live if I could, but there could be an emergency which forces me to return. Temporarily of course, but I may still need to return.

(and yes I know you were being sarcastic/just making a remark)

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Old Apr 17th 2014, 3:46 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Side question - FL - how would one go about obtaining a Canadian citizenship I.D that isn't a passport if you are a citizen by birth in Canada as I am? Since the birth certificate isn't really proof of nationality?
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Old Apr 17th 2014, 3:54 am
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Default Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US

Originally Posted by gozitanguygoinghome99xx View Post
Side question - FL - how would one go about obtaining a Canadian citizenship I.D that isn't a passport if you are a citizen by birth in Canada as I am? Since the birth certificate isn't really proof of nationality?
Citizenship certificate. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informa...ons/certif.asp
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