Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/28722...zation+Program


So Canada is planning to implement an ETA system... That's all fine and good, but why are British subjects with right of abode stamps exempt from ETA, but normal British citizens are not ? :confused:

And especially, why are citizens of the "State of Israel" going to be exempt from it? They should definitely be required to apply if normal European citizens are as well. I think an Israeli that lives in a war-state is more of a risk than your standard European traveler. That's just like Stephen Harper calling up Mossad and saying "Hey, send your anti-arab spies over here, we've already exempted them from ETA!"

:thumbdown:

And here http://canadianimmigrant.ca/news-and...lers-to-canada

Will the new requirement for the airline to report the info of people exiting Canada not affect dual citizens who are using their non-Canadian passport to travel abroad, as it does in the USA?

Why do we have to listen to the USA on everything? Our leaders need to figure out that we are not part of the United States. We should not harmonize our immigration procedures with that of the United States. Information of Canadian citizens and permanent residents traveling should not be shared with the United States. Nor should that of foreigners visiting Canada. The US should only be involved if the traveler is traveling to, from, or through the United States.

I only hope the European Union doesn't have sharing agreements with the US like this. I think they learned their lesson though with the US agents spying on Brussels.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

I think the author of the article you link to isn't interpreting the notice of intent correctly.

The Notice says:
Which I reckon to mean: ETA will apply to visa-exempt counties in 190(1) [which include the UK] _excluding_ the US. ETA will also apply to passports listed in 190(2) and (2.1) which includes Holy See, State of Israel, British Subjects with right-of-abode stamps, etc.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

By the way Gozitanguy, this mix-up probably happened because the Regulations are a wee bit confusing:

190(1) talks about visa-exemption for certain nationalities
190(2) does the same for people holding certain travel documents

Which isn't the same thing - although in English, people often use 'I hold a UK passport' and 'I'm a British Citizen' interchangably. But historically, holding a passport of a country didn't necessarily mean you were a citizen of that country. If you wanted to travel to France in the 19th century for example, it made sense to apply for a French passport. Of course, such a French passport would state 'British' (or whatever nationality the case may be) instead of 'French' in the 'Citizen of' section.

This is still the case for certain passports. To carry a passport of the Holy See, you don't need to be a Holy-See-ian. People who otherwise need a visa become visa-exempt just by holding a Holy See passport.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

PPS Hong Kong and Taiwan aren't in 190(1) because if they were, Canada would imply that a separate Hong-Kong and Taiwanese citizenship existed. And then mainland China would start throwing toys out of the pram :lol:

Politics...

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Not sure if they've expressed it correctly but I think what they're getting at are belongers of British territories who are BOTCs (BOTCs have a right to reside in the UK). Those people are exempt from visas to enter the US and Canada under older agreements than the VWP, they simply have to prove they have a police clearance. Belongers of Bermuda are completely exempt because the US and Canada have an agreement with Bermuda. So the ETA won't apply to them either.

Because there are pre-existing screening agreements with Israel.

Maybe, but that's your fault for not using your Canadian passport.

The Beyond the Border Initiative was a Canadian idea. Harper even got Obama into a room to announce it, even though the Americans didn't see the need.

I totally disagree with you, creates far more problems for us than it does for the Americans. Bear in mind this information has all been shared for many, many years. A CBP officer can right now ask to see the CBSA entry record, they just need to give some sort of reason. That agreement has been in place for decades. Plus they have access to CPIC. All this agreement does really is provide a greater level of integration between certain CBSA and CBP systems to prevent duplication of effort.

The US is our largest trading partner and anything that can be done to prevent duplicate inspections, harmonization of regulations, etc. is in our interest.

The EU has fantastically more sharing agreements between states, known as the Schengen Agreement and the Lisbon Treaty to start with. Not to mention the European Commission and the European Parliament and many thousands and thousands of European Directives.

The US, the UK, New Zealand, Australia and Canada have been sharing intelligence information generally for decades. The NSA was (and probably still is) using GCHQ to intercept Google's hard lines going through the Irish Sea.

Read up on Ascension Island or Diego Garcia.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Where do I apply for my Holy See passport? :D

But they are separate citizenships. HKSAR nationals can visit as many countries visa free than I can with my Canadian and EU passports. Same with Taiwanese. PRC passports, on the other hand, suck :p

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Nope. Not even according to the Hong Kong passport office:

Who are Eligible?

You are eligible to apply for a HKSAR Passport if you are:

a Chinese citizen;
a permanent resident of the HKSAR; and
a holder of a valid Hong Kong permanent identity card.

As for Taiwan, the Taiwanese consider themselves to have 'Republic of China' citizenship. That country's borders encompass the whole of China, and all China's inhabitants are considered to be Republic of China citizens... but unfortunately (for the Taiwanese) most is occupied by the 'Communists'.

The 'Communists', in turn, consider Taiwan an integral part of their country, and all the island's inhabitants are communist citizens. Unfortunately (for the Communists) the island is occupied by the Nationalists.

Does this get crazy enough for you? Canada doesn't want to get involved in this crap (or rather, it does not want to offend the Communists) so it legislates on the basis of travel documents, not citizenship.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

If you wish to write to the Pope, you may do so at the following address:

His Holiness, Pope Francis
Apostolic Palace
00120 Vatican City

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Makes sense... I read on this a while ago... :eek:

OK i'll let you know when I get my passport :D:rofl:

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

I've got ties to both Canada and the US so I am biased a bit and don't really mind more cooperation, and frankly would personally love to see a more open border.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

It doesn't get much more open than in parts of BC, Alberta and the Prairies :lol:
Just walk across a field and voila in the US or Canada.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

:rofl: True!

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

I have always wondered how many people do that.. is it monitored at all?

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Some discussion at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%..._States_border

As to the rest, Australia started the concept of ETA in 1996 or so (it's not a U.S. idea). And since Canadian citizens in theory won't be eligible for ETA, it may well impose a de-facto requirement for Canadian citizens to use a Canadian passport for commercial travel to Canada. Equivalent to what is already the case in Australia.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Hmm.. it seems that if one really wanted to cross into the States, it wouldn't be too hard to do so from Canada.

Keeping on topic with the thread.. I don't get why one would be so against ETA. Personally, I already have to give my info to the States whenever flying there anyways. With Canada keeping exit records it should also help me prove residency requirements have been met when I get my PR. So if anything it may be better for me!

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

lol..you bad man ,,,what wi all the drones flying overhead,and the mobile units out at night.:D
not forgetting the no phone/two way radio dead zones that just happen to occur next to the US border posts.:sneaky:
seems the US border guards think all off Canada wants to live in the land off the free, well according to the tv show.
jimmy

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Doesn't Australian law require you to enter with an Aus passport anyways regardless of ETA? (If you are dual Aus-Kiwi, even though Kiwi passports don't need ETA, you need to enter Aus on your Aus passport, you cannot enter on the Kiwi passport according to Aus law unless you are one of the pre-2003 PR-on-arrival Kiwis. Then you can use the Kiwi passport.)

But unless Canada specifically changes the law to say you must use a Canadian passport to enter Canada if you are a citizen, I think entering on a foreign passport with an ETA (so the airline won't deny you boarding) and proof of citizenship in the form of: expired Cdn passport, Cdn birth/naturalisation certificate, Cdn citizenship certificate, or all of the above should be fine.


My concern though is of dual Canadian-European citizens traveling abroad from Canada using their European passport. How do I prove to this new exit requirement that I am not a European overstayer (normally I would say just use the EU passport and don't show the Cdn one till you are back in Canada, but obviously with this new stuff that wont work anymore) , and that I am in fact Canadian whilst still booking my flights / showing the airline that I am an EU citizen? As I want to use the EU passport in Europe for the shorter lines and my European Health Insurance provided by Malta. (yes even though I don't live there I can still access the national healthcare system and EHIC)

And then how do you do it on the way back? You need to show the EU passport to exit Europe as you don't have a EU entry stamp in the Canadian passport, and the airline needs to record that as such. But they also need to advance CBSA the info that I am a Canadian citizen and resident, not just an EU tourist.

:confused:

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Since Australia requires all non-citizens to get a visa, and since Australians can't have a visa, there's a de-facto passport requirement. However, in the context of criminal law with sanctions for non-compliance, there is no such law in Australia. One of the many forum myths out there.

An Australian citizen with a foreign passport won't get to travel to Australia unless he or she has a visa. He or she would need to convince the ETA system to grant a visa in the foreign passport. Technically it shouldn't do so, but in practice it might. And it would involve doing some explaining to Customs and Immigration on arrival, which is always best avoided unless there is a situation of real emergency.

If the person was a dual NZ/Aus citizen, then he or she could normally travel to Australia with a New Zealand passport, not needing an ETA, but would have the same issues with Customs on arrival. Not advisable as first choice.

There is a document called an Australian Declaratory Visa that Australian citizens can, in limited circumstances, have stamped in a foreign passport:
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/931.pdf

We don't know the details of how Canada's ETA system will work, but, for example, it could ask a question about whether the applicant is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident and then deny ETA clearance to someone who answers with a positive. Or it may not. If it is restricted to non-Canadian citizens/PRs, there will be a de-facto passport requirement in place.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

You've just completely contradicted yourself with those two statements - the purpose of this agreement between the US and Canada is to benefit people in both countries, but more in the case of Canada. The idea is to cut through duplicate inspections and other delays - which the EU did a long time ago.

Israel has a had separate far more severe screening procedure agreement with Canada and the US for many years and I appreciate what you're saying about British subjects but I think what they're getting at is BOTCs like I said in contiguous territories, who used to be considered British subjects. I think they're still described in the pre-existing agreements as British subjects so they would be in new regulations, although technically now they're BOTCs.

As for the passport issue, that already exists, you simply book your ticket as a Canadian using your Canadian passport and show your other passport at entry to the other country.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Part of the purpose of the exercise seems to be to stop people from doing an end-run around the immigration procedures by entering as a visitor. Say you are a PR abroad and your PR card has expired, you're supposed to get an entry permit but a lot of people just go as a visitor. With the ETA in place, you won't be able to do that because it will be linked into CBSA and CIC.

I suspect it will also mean Canadians who are dual-citizens will find it more difficult to travel using a foreign passport, although it's not illegal to do that at present.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Was not intended. I don't want open borders with the U.S. I would not vote for freedom of movement between the two countries, or an EU-like union between them. (there is even talk of including Mexico in something like this ? :eek:)

I quite like the EU and open borders in the EU, because none of the countries in the EU are annoying and arrogant and think they rule the world and can enforce their principles/laws throughout the world. (aka World Police, aka the United States)

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Well they are going to have to make it somewhat easy; dual citizenship is legal in Canada and in my (soon to be) other country of citizenship. (Malta)

Take this situation
Dual Maltese-Canadian citizen lives in Malta, wants to travel to Canada to visit his family. Without ETA, he could just go on his Maltese passport to make things simple (he probably doesn't even have a Canadian one as they are now almost CAN$300 to renew from abroad:eek: whilst his Maltese passport costs him about €50 to renew from inside Malta) , and show his Ontario birth certificate together with his Maltese passport to the CBSA agent to prove Canadian nationality and enter as a citizen. Simple.

With ETA, based on what you said, he is forced to either lie on the ETA form and say he is not a Canadian citizen/PR and get an ETA as a Maltese national, which puts him at risk of being denied entry (actually not really since if one can prove citizenship you cannot be deported) , or worse, loss of Canadian nationality. (although I doubt that.) If he says he is a citizen/PR on the ETA form he will be denied ETA. So he is de facto forced to spend C$300 on a Canadian passport ? Gimme a break. That's absurd. Where is the people living in the country's voting on this ?

:thumbdown:

As a side note, I guess you could always fly to the US and enter Canada by land, negating the need for ETA :p;)

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

You seem to like the open borders in Europe for the convenience it provides you to travel from one to the other. But there are many in Europe who do not like it. You will find a lot of Europeans who would describe other European nations 'annoying' and 'arrogant'. There are also many people in Western Europe who resent the amount of Eastern Europeans who they see as having 'taken their jobs' since the EU has expanded.

So you may have to pay more for a passport now.. That's part of being an expat. I will have to pay more to renew my British passport from Canada than I would if I were to still reside in the UK.

..I also don't think that issue of dual citizens entering and leaving the country is a big issue during elections.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Oh the irony of making that claim on a site called British expats :rofl:

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

An Ontario birth certificate is not prima facie evidence of Canadian citizenship however it is an indicator of citizenship.
A Canadian provincial birth certificate is a good indicator of Canadian citizenship, but does not contain a photograph. The BSO must therefore be satisfied that the person is the rightful holder.
You would need the ESTA to fly into the USA however according to the US regulations visa waiver country citizens cannot land at a US airport and then travel by land to Canada they need a connecting flight
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/WebHel...Help_1.htm#WP3

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

:lol: Some need to do some research on the British Empire to see how many countries the UK invaded and policed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9...uxembourg.html

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

So here's an idea. Why don't you just renounce your Canadian citizenship when you go "home"? Think of all the money you're going to save! And, you get the added benefit of not having to worry about what happens in Canada anymore.

I personally don't see a problem paying $300 for a 10 year passport for Canada. That works out to $30 per year for a travel document.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Yeah I get what you mean. I like the open borders in the EU because of the freedom of movement, which will allow me to emigrate to a better place. (it's not 100% that I am going to Malta. It's home and i'd love to but the economy is just sh** down there, so even with a degree I wouldn't be making a desirable salary. It would be better for me to work in the UK and have enough money to travel to Malta on weekends and holidays.)

I can definitely understand your point of view though because in Malta we have the "boat people" . (ie African refugees who come on their rickety boats seeking asylum in Malta and Italy, making the already bad economy in Malta even worse because the Maltese taxpayer pays for the expenses of these migrants.)

Though I understand and support their reason for coming, I think the EU should send them elsewhere than Malta/Italy, as the economies there aren't very good.

:rofl:
Well that's just about the stupidest thing i've ever heard... But it is America after all. ;) What "security risk" does traveling by land to Canada have, exactly? :rofl:

What about Canadian citizens (who are visa waiver citizens but not required to do ESTA) who are landing in the US and traveling by land to Canada because they live there?

Paying for the passport isn't the issue. It's the principle. Why should I have to pay $300 for a passport I might only use twice or thrice in 10 years, when I have another one that works just as good for visiting purposes. Yes, if I absolutely have to pay for the passport, I will. But if there is a way around it, i'd like to know. Oh and yeah, renounce my citizenship? What a wonderful idea. Then if there is a family emergency with my disabled sibling or anyone else in the family I can't stay longer than 6 months and could be denied entry. Sounds great. Renouncing a citizenship is foolish, even if you don't see a need for it. I don't see a need for Canadian nationality in my future as i'd leave today and never come back to live if I could, but there could be an emergency which forces me to return. Temporarily of course, but I may still need to return.

(and yes I know you were being sarcastic/just making a remark)

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Side question - FL - how would one go about obtaining a Canadian citizenship I.D that isn't a passport if you are a citizen by birth in Canada as I am? Since the birth certificate isn't really proof of nationality?

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Citizenship certificate. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informa...ons/certif.asp

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Thank you. Is this an acceptable document to present on entry to Canada to enter as a Canadian national? Ie is it effective "proof of citizenship" at the border?

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to travel to Canada, as a Canadian citizen you will need a Canadian passport. Is $30/year really too much to pay for the security of knowing you can come and go at your pleasure and have the assurance that you will not be denied entry to your home country? (Yes, I know you don't consider Canada home, but it's the only country you have ever lived in) If it is then I guess you'll have to make do with giving up being Canadian and travel on your EU passport like millions of others do. Even some people who have disabled siblings living in Canada do it!

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

I don't know. I carry both of my passports when I travel. I have to leave and enter Australia on my Australian one and I use my Canadian one to enter and leave Canada.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

No, it's not, really. I'll assure you I can afford that. But if I could spend $300 on something different, like a new iPhone, i'd rather do that. But after ETA comes in, if there is no way, as a Canadian national, to enter Canada other than using a Canadian passport, I will spend the money on the passport for sure. And I won't renounce the nationality either, as much as I don't consider Canada my home, it will always have a place with me since it's where my family is, and where I spent (am spending) my childhood. I have a friend from abroad that does not want to take the citizenship oath and become a citizen this summer. I told her as much as you hate it here and want to go home, like I do, your parents and brother still live here, and you may want to come back later. Besides, having another nationality is always useful. The only instance I would see it being a burden is being a US citizen abroad and having to pay US taxes.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Along with a valid passport then Yes it is. As for the ESTA Canadian citizens are not required to apply for ESTA and as long as travelling on Canadian passports then exempt from ESTA. Also accepted Canadian citizens can present a valid passport, Enhanced Driver’s License, or Trusted Traveler Program card (NEXUS, SENTRI or FAST).
If you are a Canadian citizen with dual nationality but don't have those documents and are say using a UK passport then you need ESTA if entering via air or sea to the USA and you couldn't then use a land crossing unless you had a valid Canadian PR card as proof of residence. This is where this comes into play
Travel may not terminate in contiguous territory or adjacent islands unless the traveler is a resident of one of those areas.
As I keep saying if dual nationality Canadian/other then have 2 x passports if you wish to avoid perceived hassles when coming back to Canada directly or via the USA.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

They aren't going to have to do anything. Dual citizenship may well be legal, however that doesn't mean that an obligation (either legal or de-facto) to use a Canadian passport in Canada is unreasonable.


It's all "may be" rather than "will be" as far as ETA is concerned at this stage. And I would expect that most Canadians would see it as reasonable that Canadian citizens should be expected to use Canadian passports, in Canada.

Except that, as others have said, the U.S. visa waiver program does not allow one-way commercial travel into the United States. So your hypothetical sole-Maltese passport holder would need to get a U.S. tourist visa to fly into the United States. Unless that person had a return ticket back to Malta or somewhere else outside North America.

In addition, it's often best to avoid complicated scenarios when crossing borders. And arriving in the U.S. with a Maltese passport and either a tourist visa or return ticket on visa waiver program/ESTA, with intention to spend time in Canada, is likely to invite questions about status in Canada. Questions that might be answerable, but at risk of causing avoidable scrutiny/delay.

The simplest way (for a dual Canadian/other citizen) to fly into the U.S. with intention to cross the land frontier into Canada is to get a Canadian passport.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Well I really don't think you can compare illegal immigrants from North Africa trying to enter Malta/Italy to Eastern European (EU) nationals travelling within the EU for work. Firstly, they enter the country legally and secondly they have a right to work in Western Europe as EU nationals. Illegal immigrants from North Africa meanwhile are trying to enter the EU illegally and if successfully they would be working illegally. So it is pretty different.

I am assuming that you are planning on working in the UK on the back of your Maltese citizenship? If so, that would be no different to an EU national from Eastern Europe working in the UK, so you have inadvertently compared yourself to the illegal immigrants from North Africa. Why the EU would send them elsewhere I don't know.


So $300 for a travel document that lasts 10 years is something to moan about, but the same amount of money (and more!) for a phone that is barely updated from the previous version and will have be relevant for 2 years max is fine. I am going to assume that with age your priorities will change. First World Problems!

Dual Citizenship is not attainable for everyone, especially not as easily as you may be getting it (descent? rather than having to find sponsorship via employment etc.). The fact that you are able to apply for citizenship in a country you have barely spent any time in, in a country which is within the EU and will give you access to it's other member states is not something to be taken lightly.

As you yourself have pointed out, there are many, many people who risk their lives, and many more who die trying to reach the Europe. Having to pay $300 for a passport, or having to use a certain passport to enter a certain country is not much of a price to pay really.

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

Nor do I, if I had the ability to get a Canadian Passport. I did get curious though, and checked to see if the US would charge me more for renewal being outside the US, but living in Canada they charge the same rate as those within the US. So like 11/yr. Didn't realize how cheap it actually is for the lifespan of the thing.....lol

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

+ 1 :)

Re: Canadian ETA/Sharing info with US
 

This is such a non-question! Really! Get it!