Originally Posted by jaminsk1

I'm heading the other way but agree with most of the other posters in saying that you should definitely go for it. It seems you are young and not happy with where you are so with nothing holding you back then why not.

I love the Uk and am fully aware of how good it is compared to the rest of the world but unlike you, I am more of an outdoor person and enjoy the open space, something that is at a premium here - hence me heading in the other direction.

I hope I'm not going to be negative here but will point out some things to be aware of / that haven't been mentioned so far.


As someone young looking for a good time and a big adventure then I would definitely suggest London as your first place to check rather than the other cities. There just seems to be so much to do there as you have to bear in mind London has 10 million people whereas Birmingham has just over a million (2nd biggest city)- there will always be something fresh going on for you to get involved in. I live just outside london and worked in Birmingham for a couple of years and to be honest apart from the shopping it didn't really have much going for it. London is a good place to start if you don't drive as well as it is the hub of Southern England and most railways etc go into / out of it. It is also the most expensive place in the country too and the salaries often reflect this (called London weigthing) - If you work elsewhere you won't be paid as much and will find it a lot more expensive to visit. You can then do weekends away to other cities as well - Manchester, York, Bristol and Liverpool are all great places to head for young people IMO.

The public transport is better in London but bear in mind you pay for it as well. There is no flat fee for Subway travel - it is based on zones and to travel across the city, a return ticket can work out a bit more expensive than you think. Buses are ok but outside of the congestion zone, traffic in rush hours is generally really bad so it can often be quicker to walk shorter distances. If you are travelling between cities beware that the trains can cost a lot more as well and it is often cheaper to book tickets in advance online rather than pay on the day.

It is dirtier here - a lot dirtier. You will see a lot of rubbish on the streets compared with Toronto. I was amazed at the difference. The air quality is noticably different too - blow your nose after a day in the city and see what comes out

With respect to jobs - I think the UK is about to go into another recession. Agreed the UK isn't actually in the Euro but we have a lot of financial interest in it and will be effected by what's about to happen. It has hit a lot harder there than in Canada and I think the UK cuts aren't really being felt yet (Public service cuts). I'm an IT contractor and there are a fair few jobs available BUT there is a hell of a lot of interest from contractors from the sub continent that are undercutting a lot of UK contractors - these are people that were working in the sub contractor centres of Mumbai etc that have realised that they can be paid a lot more here to do the same job as they were doing out there. If you are adaptable and are able to dynamically develop products with a client without strict specs then you will be very employable but you need to be as much of a BA as a software developer to stand out from the crowd at the moment. Send your CV off to a few agencies and see what you can expect (check out jobserve for a good place to start looking for IT jobs)

People aren't as polite in the cities here. It's heads down and go about your business and don't make eye contact with anyone. Speak to anyone and you will be regarded as a weirdo. It's not as bad on the outskirts though and you can reguarly strike up conversations with strangers (the further north the better IMO). Saying that, I lived in Brixton for a while and the sense of community where we lived was fantastic. Generally people are negative though and love to moan about things but apathy rules so hardly anyone does anything about it.

London is one of the best places in the world for music IMO. Such a variety and some of the best I have encountered. Be it jazz bars, techno clubs or banks playing in pubs. Something for everyone.

Choose a football team In London I would suggest Chelsea, Spurs, West Ham or Fulham - not Arsenal though, never Arsenal (don't choose a northern club as you will be viewed as a glory hunter) - get yourself to a game and find out what it's all about too - you can get tickets for Fulham games at Craven Cottage and it is a good place to start and see the crowds etc. It is a tribal thing here, much more so than hockey in my experience and is great fun if you don;t take it too seriously.

If you head over and want some recommendations for cheap days out to see things over here then drop me a PM and I will let you know a few of my favourite places to visit out of the way

PS - I also had to laugh at your comments re the Mayor of Toronto being a clown. You are aware of Boris Johnson?

Originally Posted by FedUpCanadian

[I]

I qualify for the ancestry visa, and work in a field (web development) that I assume is relatively in-demand. I’m in no huge hurry to leave, but if I eventually do move to a relatively large English city (London, Birmingham, Liverpool, etc.) do you think I’d be happier across the pond? Or am I just projecting what I think Canada should be like onto England? I've been to London and the surrounding area before, but it's hard to suss out the values of a country from one two-week visit.

Thanks, and sorry again for the backwards topic!

Originally Posted by MarylandNed

I pretty much agree with most of this. Although there are plenty of northern football teams that don't win anything. So you wouldn't be classed as a glory hunter unless you followed Man Utd - or possibly Man City now. Also, the population difference between London and Birmingham is not the 10 to 1 that you quoted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

Originally Posted by dbd33

Poorer is relative. Last year one of my children sold her house on Toronto's Danforth and moved to the east end of London (Tower Hamlets, Limehouse tube). She loves it because she's in a big city with access to Europe and yet she can walk to work. But, she owned a nice house in Toronto in a reasonably fashionable area, her rent in the east end is the equivalent of $1000 a week (GBP450) and she has no chance of buying anything. Stepping into the big league isn't a win in every way.

Originally Posted by Paradiseapplebody

Um, sorry to break it to you, but the Might of the British Pound has lost a lot of ground as of the last couple years, and GBP450 is roughly $750 CAD/USD.

Originally Posted by Paradiseapplebody

Um, sorry to break it to you, but the Might of the British Pound has lost a lot of ground as of the last couple years, and GBP450 is roughly $750 CAD/USD. Quite honestly, I think Canada should be a little flexible with the 2% inflation target that Thiesson proposed, and do what the Swiss did in terms of putting a cap on how high the Franc could go to like 120 to the EURO, in that they should cap the Canadian dollar value to no be worth more than 85 cents US to keep exports going. I think 1 pound british should be worth at least 2 dollars Canadian.

Originally Posted by dbd33

Well, yes, I converted GBP500 yesterday. The point remains, living in a big city, such as London is fantastically more expensive than living in a small one, like Toronto. Toronto's quieter, safer, sleepier, cheaper; arguably a better place for the middle aged, but the poster isn't middle aged.

Back with MarylandNed's point about air quality, "worst in Europe" is just that, it doesn't help with a comparison with Ontario. AFAIK, London has no "smog days". The health and safety standards are generally much higher there so I have to think there are no days as bad there as the few per year here when the government doesn't think it's safe to walk outside.

Originally Posted by MarylandNed

Right, but I also gave a comparison with Toronto - albeit a personal one. I've lived in both cities and London was much dirtier and more polluted IMO. As I said, my daughter (who was perfectly healthy in Toronto) developed asthma during her 2 years in London. Could be coincidence - except for the fact that her health improved dramatically after leaving London..

Originally Posted by MikeUK

Also personal experiance,
I currently work in one of the big office blocks by the airport (YYZ), I can see the yellow haze across the city in the morning
Toronto's air isn't clean!!
and I never remember seing a haze like it in London or Birmingham

Originally Posted by MarylandNed

Most major air pollutants are actually invisible.

Originally Posted by MikeUK

yep.. doesn't say much for Toronto when it got the colored variety too,
I believe a significant part will be automotive pollutants
Along with the industrial output, I imagine some will be blow over form Hamilton’s steel works too.

But for what it’s worth, even on a rainy day like today, right now, you can see the brown/yellow haze on the horizon

Originally Posted by MarylandNed

Most major air pollutants are actually invisible.

Originally Posted by MikeUK

Also personal experiance,
I currently work in one of the big office blocks by the airport (YYZ), I can see the yellow haze across the city in the morning
Toronto's air isn't clean!!
and I never remember seing a haze like it in London or Birmingham

Originally Posted by MarylandNed

I have - check this out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...-air-pollution