Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Canada
Reload this Page >

Canada's vacation politics

Canada's vacation politics

Old Jul 7th 2017, 3:00 pm
  #46  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 38,555
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat View Post
Oh yes, that was kind of the point. I haven't looked but wonder whether the US immigration board has the perennial "only 2 weeks vacation? Tell me it 'aint so?" threads?
I'm sure it does but I expect the "how do live without healthcare?", "the nearest place to San Francisco I can afford to live is in Iowa, how do I commute?", "I can get a house in Detroit/Buffalo/Winston Salem for $40,000, is there a catch?" and "my employer is giving me an education allowance of under $100,000 for my children, can I really afford to send them both to school in Manhattan?" threads are more plentiful.
dbd33 is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2017, 5:21 pm
  #47  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 42
Reeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Complaints by immigrants like this one of, 'why can't I have 5 weeks vacation' just indicate to me a basic difference in cultural norms. In the UK, people may see that as an entitlement along with many other entitlements they are used to having in the Nanny State they grew up in. But this is not the Nanny State. You left there and came to Canada presumably because you believed you would have a better life.

The question is how did you expect to get that better life? If you expected it to be handed to you as an entitlement, then you are in the wrong country. I stand by what I wrote, you get what you want by doing what you need to do to get it, not by being mediocre or sitting back and complaining it should be given to you. Some may say I am being blunt. OK, I'm blunt, so what? Blunt leaves no room for ambiguity.


Dbd33, you wrote, "Even when compensation is based directly upon billings generated that is not a level playing field as the person with the best connections is best placed to generate the most billings"

That to me is not contradictory at all to what I wrote, that you are rewarded based on productivity. I don't care how someone generated the most billings, all that matters is that they did. If they have an advantage over others in who they know, that's what gets them the rewards over others. If someone is more intelligent than others and employs that intelligence to produce more, should they only be rewarded the same as someone who produces less? What advantage someone has and is smart enough to use, is what makes the difference. There is no such thing as a level playing field and I for one certainly would never have wanted to play on one. Why would I?

If you must talk about vacation rather than the actual underlying principles that making the complaint actually indicates, then let's tell it like it is.

I have yet to meet a Canadian who did not want more days off. If any comment is simply not true, the statement that, "Canadians do not value holidays and tend not to take them" is that statement at least for the first part. What differs is that they value something else more. It may be bigger house or a new car or whatever but they choose what matters more to them over finding a way to work less days.

Nor are all Canadians the same in that regard. There are plenty of Canadians who want to work less and play more but that comes at a price. You don't get to say, I want to be entitled to 5 weeks vacation as a mediocre producer. That simply ain't gonna happen.

A bricklayer can go and work in a city for 6 months and then go spend the next 6 months lying on a beach in Florida if he wants to. But he isn't likely to own a big house or retire at 55. He had no problem at all though in getting 24 weeks vacation a year. He can make that choice. So can anyone else. The only difference is that one person sees it is a choice while another says, 'but I should be able to do both, I'm entitled'.

Let's try this offer for anyone who wants 5 weeks vacation or more. Take a job that pays you only commission. If you produce something you get paid, if you don't you starve. But, if you can produce enough in 6 months to pay you for 12 months, you will have 6 months vacation. Happy with that? Or do you want to be guaranteed 12 months income AND 5 weeks vacation, regardless of how well you produce? I think I know the answer to that one.

All I read in any negative comments about vacation time, nepotism, connections, etc. etc. is 'it ain't fair to me'. Well, that's true, it ain't fair and never will be. So what? What the individual does about that is what matters. You don't beat the system by complaining about it or running back to the UK with your tail between your legs at the first hurdle, you beat the system by being better at playing IN the system than others. The system isn't fair to anyone and you can be on one side or the other of 'fair'. The side no one wants to be on or the side everyone wants to be on but only some get to be on.

Canada will give you the opportunity to do whatever you want, but you have to figure out how to do that, not expect to be given it. In my 30s, I came to the realization that what I wanted was 52 weeks per year of vacation, not a piddly 5 weeks. So I sat down and figured out how to do that. And guess what, it was relatively easy. All I had to do was outproduce my peers. I've had 52 weeks vacation per year since my early 40s. I just figured out how to no longer need to work for a living while maintaining a decent income.
Reeders is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2017, 6:46 pm
  #48  
Oscar nominated
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 35,110
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Originally Posted by Reeders View Post
What advantage someone has and is smart enough to use, is what makes the difference. There is no such thing as a level playing field and I for one certainly would never have wanted to play on one.
Why didn't you just say you don't believe in equal opportunities, it would have been quicker.
Attached Files
File Type: doc
On A Plate.doc (1.99 MB, 32 views)
BristolUK is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2017, 9:45 pm
  #49  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 42
Reeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond reputeReeders has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

What makes you think I don't believe in equal opportunity BristolUK? As for your document link, what does that indicate other than what might happen to one hypothetical person vs. another hypothetical person?

Where are the examples of real people? Where are all the immigrants to Canada who arrived with little or nothing and made a success of their life in Canada? https://www.google.ca/search?q=famou...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Try naming one successful person in Canada who is not an immigrant or the descendant of an immigrant. Everyone in Canada is from an immigrant family other than the native peoples.

I was an immigrant to Canada many years ago and I know that equal opportunity exists here for every immigrant. What I also know is that not everyone takes advantage of the opportunities that exist. My parents got off the boat with 2 little kids and less than $100 to start them out. Nothing was handed to them or to me, 'on a plate'.

What I see here BristolUK, is someone saying, 'hand me 5 weeks vacation on a plate.'
Reeders is offline  
Old Jul 8th 2017, 11:32 pm
  #50  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Jsmth321's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 25,717
Jsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

We get the basic mandatory 2 weeks where I work, although they give us 2 choices which is have it paid out each cheque or bank it and have 2 paid weeks off.

Typically the company is okay with taking vacation time provided there are not multiple employees wanting the same time frame off, and it's not peak summer season, no vacations permitted May to September or during December.

It's the airline industry so stat holidays don't really count as time off since the only way we get them off is if the holiday happens to fall on regular days off.
Jsmth321 is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 1:48 am
  #51  
Henry Bear
 
Piff Poff's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 10,387
Piff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond reputePiff Poff has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

I think the minimum paid wage here is awful as is sick pay - for level entry and skilled worker (mechanics in dealerships) jobs. I get the legal minimum, paid out each paycheck (no choice). I work part time so I can figure in more vacation time and that's one reason I haven't sought a more fulfilling position.

My husband works at a Ford Dealership, he has now got to three weeks paid, it goes into a holiday pay fund which he can request at anytime whether he is on vacation or not, which I suppose is good. BUT he only get paid (and therefore holiday pay) if he is physically working on a vehicle, so he can be at work for 8 hours but if there is no work - through no fault of his own, there is no pay. Luckily enough for him in the dept he works in (on his own) he is busy 90% of the time. He can take unpaid vacation too.

We have family coming for three weeks, we have booked a total of 8 days off.

I have not met anyone who wouldn't like more paid vacation. Also unlike the UK if the Stat falls on a Saturday, you don't get an extra day on the Monday, which means fewer long weekends that year.

It takes getting used to, when we move across country, we want to be semi retired doing our own thing, something seasonal where we can control the hours, we have a few ideas how to make this happen.
Piff Poff is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 2:09 am
  #52  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 38,555
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Originally Posted by Reeders View Post
What differs is that they value something else more. It may be bigger house or a new car or whatever but they choose what matters more to them over finding a way to work less days.
I acknowledge your point that people working in Canada generally value something more than vacation but suggest that it is groceries and rent, or mortgage, paid, rather than anything open to ridicule. The essential difference between North America and Europe is that, in Europe, the working poor, and everyone above, can have a holiday, whereas workers in Canada are conditioned to think that time off work is wrong and so do not take even their begrudged allotment.

Last edited by dbd33; Jul 9th 2017 at 2:13 am.
dbd33 is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 2:12 am
  #53  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
carcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Cultural difference.

In North America two weeks paid holiday is standard - some give more - and the workplace cultural norm is that unpaid leave is seen as something to use for absolute emergencies when you run out of holiday time, not as a means of topping up your vacation.

OP also has to understand that Canadian employers are going to be reluctant to give the migrant coming in from the UK, more holiday time off, than the local employees.

Are the money and bigger house worth it, than the extra 3 weeks of holiday? People vote with their feet and you are in Canada . . .
carcajou is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 2:36 am
  #54  
Oscar nominated
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 35,110
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Originally Posted by Reeders View Post
What makes you think I don't believe in equal opportunity BristolUK?
Your statement that you are not in favour of a level playing field.
BristolUK is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 3:06 am
  #55  
MODERATOR
 
Siouxie's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 18,259
Siouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond reputeSiouxie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Originally Posted by Reeders View Post
What makes you think I don't believe in equal opportunity BristolUK? As for your document link, what does that indicate other than what might happen to one hypothetical person vs. another hypothetical person?

Where are the examples of real people? Where are all the immigrants to Canada who arrived with little or nothing and made a success of their life in Canada? https://www.google.ca/search?q=famou...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Try naming one successful person in Canada who is not an immigrant or the descendant of an immigrant. Everyone in Canada is from an immigrant family other than the native peoples.

I was an immigrant to Canada many years ago and I know that equalL opportunity exists here for every immigrant. What I also know is that not everyone takes advantage of the opportunities that exist. My parents got off the boat with 2 little kids and less than $100 to start them out. Nothing was handed to them or to me, 'on a plate'.

What I see here BristolUK, is someone saying, 'hand me 5 weeks vacation on a plate.'
That may have been true 30+ years ago, sadly it is true no longer.

And being pedantic, you cannot "know" that this is true, you can only believe it to be true.,,


Last edited by Siouxie; Jul 9th 2017 at 3:10 am.
Siouxie is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 3:08 am
  #56  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Jsmth321's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 25,717
Jsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond reputeJsmth321 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

I am not sure equal opportunity has ever existed in the US/Canada.


Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
That may have been true 30+ years ago, sadly it is true no longer.
Jsmth321 is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 3:30 am
  #57  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
carcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Equal opportunity does exist in the US and Canada, and always has. But equal opportunity is different from equal outcomes.

It's not just a matter of people failing to take advantage. Lots of other things can happen too.
carcajou is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 3:38 am
  #58  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,900
carcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond reputecarcajou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

OP, I am sorry I have just re-read your post.

Did you say that you moved to Canada without knowing that winter was long and cold, and summer was short?

Wow.
carcajou is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 3:48 am
  #59  
Oscar nominated
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 35,110
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
Equal opportunity does exist in the US and Canada, and always has. .
Do you read Canadian news much?
BristolUK is offline  
Old Jul 9th 2017, 3:48 am
  #60  
Assimilated Pauper
 
dbd33's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 38,555
dbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond reputedbd33 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canada's vacation politics

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
OP, I am sorry I have just re-read your post.

Did you say that you moved to Canada without knowing that winter was long and cold, and summer was short?

Wow.
Really lolling!
dbd33 is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.