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-   -   Canada's vacation politics (https://britishexpats.com/forum/canada-56/canadas-vacation-politics-899040/)

lukesmith2 Jul 4th 2017 1:18 am

Canada's vacation politics
 
I wanted to start another thread to discuss with other expats how they feel on the subject of vacation in Canada and how they handle it with being so far away from family and having such little time off.

My opinion and story:

I am moving back to the UK in January, after just a year in the great white north I quickly discovered summer is very short and winter is long and arid and cold. One of the biggest parts of my decision to move back is vacation, travel was easy around the world from the UK as its affordable for the masses, taking vacation was easy also. In my profession 5 weeks holiday was obtainable from start date with all my jobs I had.

So here in Canada I have to do with a measly 2 weeks, I tried to get 4 when I started and was told after 6 months they will review it, well that happened and nothing changed, let alone that my boss doesn't want me to take any vacation as they need me at work (part of the reason I was hired is a total lack of resource in my profession here in Canada). So everybody turns on me when I take vacation. I'm not alone either my girlfriend who moved with me is just a dental admin and the same happens with her. Sure I have a nicer apartment than I would have in the UK, and overall more disposable income, but for the minor lifestyle advantage the old cliché of ''money doesn't by happiness, comes to mind''. I took 2 weeks this year and a week unpaid I had a fight to get the week off unpaid and complete awkwardness and an argument with the owner of the company over it.

I talked to colleagues and have interviewed for other jobs in my profession here and vacation is a huge deal over here. Of course I knew that I only had 2 weeks when I moved out here, and read of forums about taking unpaid time and was prepared to do it. The pure fact is even if you get 2 weeks or 3 weeks your employer wants you to take that, and thats all in most circumstances, no unpaid, no nothing.

Also this is a sad story, one of the people who works at a different company who I'm friends with, he went back to Germany as his dad was dieing of cancer, this was in January, when he was there his dad died, he was off for a total of one whole month. His company did not pay him for 2 weeks of it, and the other 2 weeks were vacation. So now he has no vacation for the whole year, and he didn't get paid, also the company is treating him like sh*t, and making him do all the awful jobs, as if punishing him for it. WTF is going on here? LOL.

After all what is the point in all the working if you can't travel and can't see your family.

:amen:

Siouxie Jul 4th 2017 1:43 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
It's not as if it's a big secret.. Some people are able to negotiate more leave but the majority have to put up with what they get.

If you knew this before you came, why are you so surprised? Sorry, not meaning to sound contentious but it appears you thought you could negotiate more - and when you couldn't, you didn't like it.

It is sad about your friend, but unless the company had a compassionate leave agreement, that's just the way it is.

It doesn't make it right.. but it's a known fact that the vacation time is very lacking compared to europe.

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...-vacation.html

Annual Leave-Canada : British Expat Wiki

In the UK, the majority of people are entitled to 5 weeks vacation, by the way. https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitleme...ts/entitlement

Best of luck with your move :)

DandNHill Jul 4th 2017 2:11 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by Siouxie (Post 12286222)
It's not as if it's a big secret.. Some people are able to negotiate more leave but the majority have to put up with what they get.

If you knew this before you came, why are you so surprised? Sorry, not meaning to sound contentious but it appears you thought you could negotiate more - and when you couldn't, you didn't like it.

It is sad about your friend, but unless the company had a compassionate leave agreement, that's just the way it is.

It doesn't make it right.. but it's a known fact that the vacation time is very lacking compared to europe.

https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-...-vacation.html

Annual Leave-Canada : British Expat Wiki

In the UK, the majority of people are entitled to 5 weeks vacation, by the way. https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitleme...ts/entitlement

Best of luck with your move :)

Five weeks now? Wow. I've gotten use to two weeks. Not sure I would know what to do with five.

To be fair to the OP I think you also don't quite realize how little it is until literally you're in the job and that's all you get!!

I'm gradually going down the self employed route. That way I can take time off when I want to, within reason... just have to earn the money to make it worth while!

dgagitw Jul 4th 2017 2:13 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
I get 5 weeks here, not all companies are so miserly....

lukesmith2 Jul 4th 2017 2:37 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by dgagitw (Post 12286240)
I get 5 weeks here, not all companies are so miserly....

I find its almost 1 in 10 that get that, and usually thats either because they are really high up management or they have been at the company some ridiculous amount of time (e.g. 20 years)

But just be glad your in the minority and get that 5 weeks:thumbup:


Originally Posted by DandNHill (Post 12286238)
Five weeks now? Wow. I've gotten use to two weeks. Not sure I would know what to do with five.

To be fair to the OP I think you also don't quite realize how little it is until literally you're in the job and that's all you get!!

I'm gradually going down the self employed route. That way I can take time off when I want to, within reason... just have to earn the money to make it worth while!

That's a really good idea, I wish I could go self employed.

I did know the vacation was bad before I came, but I just assumed most people had more time off and took time unpaid. I didn't know that there was a whole politics behind it and employers just want you to take your allocated time. I think it is probably easier to take a couple of weeks off unpaid in the UK + your 5 weeks LOL!!

DandNHill Jul 4th 2017 2:40 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by lukesmith2 (Post 12286243)
I find its almost 1 in 10 that get that, and usually thats either because they are really high up management or they have been at the company some ridiculous amount of time (e.g. 20 years)

But just be glad your in the minority and get that 5 weeks:thumbup:



That's a really good idea, I wish I could go self employed.

I did know the vacation was bad before I came, but I just assumed most people had more time off and took time unpaid. I didn't know that there was a whole politics behind it and employers just want you to take your allocated time. I think it is probably easier to take a couple of weeks off in the UK + your 5 weeks LOL!!

It's a weird thing. I only took 9 days off in a previous job as I was desperate to save the other day in case I needed it. Ended up getting paid it when I left!

R I C H Jul 4th 2017 2:54 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by lukesmith2 (Post 12286243)
I find its almost 1 in 10 that get that, and usually thats either because they are really high up management or they have been at the company some ridiculous amount of time (e.g. 20 years)

But just be glad your in the minority and get that 5 weeks:thumbup:



That's a really good idea, I wish I could go self employed.

I did know the vacation was bad before I came, but I just assumed most people had more time off and took time unpaid. I didn't know that there was a whole politics behind it and employers just want you to take your allocated time. I think it is probably easier to take a couple of weeks off unpaid in the UK + your 5 weeks LOL!!

I've been self-employed here and an employee. If you think self-employment guarantees more vacation time, particularly in the early years of running your own business, you might want to think again. I regularly worked 7 days a week for 6 months at a time, and when I wasn't working, I wasn't earning.

Your experience as an employee and the sector you work in isn't necessarily typical. I get 5 weeks vacation currently and can take additional time unpaid if I so wish, as long as my workload is managed effectively. Three colleagues have taken a month off each over the summer.

johntheScot Jul 4th 2017 4:06 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
bit of a pet peeve of mine but a lot of people do not compare apples with apples when it comes to paid time off.

in the UK the legal min is 28 days. for all paid time off

in Canada you get a min of 10 to 20 days vacation plus statutory holidays.

So in SK the min is 15 plus 10 stats so 25 paid days per year or 30 days if they have 10 years with their employer.

Don't get me wrong there are plenty people in the UK that get more than 28 days i think i was 37 all in when i left and there is definitely a tendency to give the legal minimum and little more.

In terms of taking vacation everyone i work with takes vacation more taken in the winter than the summer.

Siouxie Jul 4th 2017 4:16 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by R I C H (Post 12286251)
I've been self-employed here and an employee. If you think self-employment guarantees more vacation time, particularly in the early years of running your own business, you might want to think again. I regularly worked 7 days a week for 6 months at a time, and when I wasn't working, I wasn't earning.

Your experience as an employee and the sector you work in isn't necessarily typical. I get 5 weeks vacation currently and can take additional time unpaid if I so wish, as long as my workload is managed effectively. Three colleagues have taken a month off each over the summer.

Agreed,
I've been self employed for 4/5 years and took my first week of vacation in all that time this March. Last year I had flu and couldn't work for a month - so there was no chance of taking any time off for leisure or pleasure.

Yes, theoretically you can take time off at will, however, with bills to pay, taxes to pay, CPP to pay.. and money that has to be put aside for the lean times - unless you have a good income you really can't afford to take a lot of time off. I work a minimum of 45 hours a week and normally work 6 days.. I take 3 days off for Christmas but that's it.

Being self employed, there's no guarantee of income... so you end up working more hours because you don't know if next month your income will reduce!

I had more time off when I was employed!

Snowy560 Jul 4th 2017 8:55 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
You may be spending more of your holidays in Butlins or similar after Brexit. Euro travel might not be so easy/cheap then.

I think there must be other things about Canada that don't suit you, not just the holiday time!

h35j34 Jul 4th 2017 9:47 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
This is an interesting post for me, as this is one of my major doubts on moving to Canada.

I am well aware of the 2 week annual leave policy, however I also read that it depends on so many other factors the major one being if you can negotiate extra leave into your contract.

My thinking was that I would be trying to achieve starting out 2 weeks standard and 2 weeks unpaid, with the aim to increase this to 3 weeks annual leave after 12-24 months of working with a company.

This is pretty much an impossible question for anyone to say yeah yeah you will get that or no chance you will get that, as it depends on company and position.

I also noted that leave has to be accumulated before it can be taken i.e no leave in the first year, this is where I would factor in the unpaid leave and try to push for 3 weeks unpaid in my first year.

Coming from the UK, where I get 5 weeks as standard plus 8/9 public to take when I want, and my wife get 6.5 weeks...holidays are high on my tick list but I would need to experience the situation first in Canada to see how it worked out for us.

If it did turn out to be 2 weeks standard and no unpaid leave, or no increase in leave in anyway and i couldn't improve this with a new job, I would have to seriously look at returning, but again that is me saying this form the UK, but annual leave is important to me for a work/life balance.

christmasoompa Jul 4th 2017 10:30 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by Snowy560 (Post 12286405)
You may be spending more of your holidays in Butlins or similar after Brexit. Euro travel might not be so easy/cheap then.

Possibly, but I find it's usually cheaper to go to Europe than to holiday in the UK (example: this August all four of us are going to the south of France for 2 weeks - flights, a gite with a swimming pool, and car hire is £1300 for all of us!), so even if it does go up it's still affordable for a lot of people and will probably still be cheaper than internal flights etc in Canada.


Originally Posted by Snowy560 (Post 12286405)
I think there must be other things about Canada that don't suit you, not just the holiday time!

If you're used to 5 or 6 weeks in the UK and having several holidays a year, it does impact your life considerably, it doesn't have to be other things. We were lucky and hubby kept his UK holidays, but if he hadn't we wouldn't have gone, simple as that. He works long hours, so 2 weeks a year wouldn't have been enough.

Shakyuk Jul 4th 2017 11:04 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
The holidays are a concern for me but I think it's probably not something you'll know you can take until you're in that position. The past two years I've taken about 5 weeks holiday because I wanted to travel before we made the move to Canada. But before that I was only taking 3 weeks and so always had some to carry over and some to sell back.


I sympathise that working for a company that doesn't want you to take holidays and also offers the very minimum must be quite demoralising. You've made a lot of effort to get to Canada though so is it not worth trying another employer?


Myself and my girlfriend have said we'll give it a minimum of 2 years, we feel that's sufficient time for us to make a clear decision for the future. I can imagine it's easy to be bogged down and demoralised about all the changes in life, the distance from friends, making new friends plus this holiday issue. Once more established and in a more stable position you may feel differently... But then again you may not!

Hurlabrick Jul 4th 2017 11:35 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 12286463)
Possibly, but I find it's usually cheaper to go to Europe than to holiday in the UK (example: this August all four of us are going to the south of France for 2 weeks - flights, a gite with a swimming pool, and car hire is £1300 for all of us!), so even if it does go up it's still affordable for a lot of people and will probably still be cheaper than internal flights etc in Canada.

Off topic I know and I won't continue to comment, but this is spot on!

My other half spent 7 - 10 days on the internet looking for a reasonable quality short break locally in the UK and found that a flight (Monarch from BHX) and accommodation for a 4 day short break to Naples (Italy) was considerably cheaper, so guess where we will be going on a (hopefully) final short break in the UK?

h35j34 Jul 4th 2017 11:42 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
We are the same that we would give a place 2 years to see how we feel, however the annual leave is a big one for me as I said before. I was away in June and took 2 weeks off, I’ve had a few days here and there from Jan, and I could not imagine not having at least another week off and a couple days around Christmas.

One year I held back leave so I could carry over 5 and buy 5 as I was going away for 4 weeks and that was hard that year. I could survive on 4 weeks leave if everything else was going well but no less, again I am saying this from the UK

raindropsandroses Jul 4th 2017 12:08 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
This hasn't been our experience, well, not after my husband had "proven" himself in his job anyway. At first the salary, leave and benefits were OK, nothing spectacular, pretty standard, but he was offered a lot more than the advertised starting salary.

After two weeks he got a considerable pay rise, then another after a month, then a big one after another month and they doubled his annual leave at that time too. Then when they learnt we wanted to move province he was offered a transfer and promotion to the sister company of his employer, and offered three different locations.

Finally, when he explained he'd be taking up a job in a different province with a different employer they firstly asked if there was anything they could do to help him stay with them.
When he said there wasn't they gave him another big pay rise, apparently as a thank you for his hard work, said he was welcome to stay as long as he wanted, gave him glowing references, a leaving bonus and leaving presents.

His new employer have so far been brilliant too, matched his leave, upped his salary, are paying our relocation costs and their HR department are helping us massively with the organisation of our move, even with stuff that isn't really in their remit to help with.

The HR manager and husbands new line manager went around all of the grocery stores in the area to make a list of what gluten free food is available in each one, and then sent us the list (our toddler has coeliac disease, as do I). My husband had only mentioned in passing that toddler and I had it, we never expected them to do that.

So, to cut a long story short, I don't think my husband has ever felt so valued, he's still pretty bemused :lol:

dbd33 Jul 4th 2017 12:19 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by lukesmith2 (Post 12286218)
IAlso this is a sad story, one of the people who works at a different company who I'm friends with, he went back to Germany as his dad was dieing of cancer, this was in January, when he was there his dad died, he was off for a total of one whole month. His company did not pay him for 2 weeks of it, and the other 2 weeks were vacation. So now he has no vacation for the whole year, and he didn't get paid, also the company is treating him like sh*t, and making him do all the awful jobs, as if punishing him for it. WTF is going on here? LOL.

I would not have taken him back. Generally, at the firms where I've worked, people do not take much vacation, there's typically a policy of discouraging vacation by firing people by email while they're away (within the agreed period, obviously if people don't come back on time they needn't come back at all). That's part of the "if you're not at the table, you're on the menu" approach to staffing so popular here. Commonly people try and keep their two weeks for domestic emergencies and then use it up over Christmas so as not to lose it.

If vacation is important then ideally one should take a position with the federal government "I can actually take the mat leave!" or with a bank. Otherwise the trade off with Canada has always been that you don't get much vacation but houses are cheap so you can buy more things; not necessarily monster trucks and motorbikes but private education or horses or the very best medical care. Unfortunately houses aren't that cheap at the moment but there's still the scenery on the way to and from work. Less so in Mississauga or Burlington than in Cape Breton, obviously.

BristolUK Jul 4th 2017 2:24 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by johntheScot (Post 12286277)
bit of a pet peeve of mine but a lot of people do not compare apples with apples when it comes to paid time off.

in the UK the legal min is 28 days. for all paid time off

in Canada you get a min of 10 to 20 days vacation plus statutory holidays...

Is the bolded part correct? In the link that Siouxie provided it says "An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave" rather than the 28 days includes all paid time off.

When I was still in the UK there was annual leave plus Easter/xmas/bank holidays. I never heard of anyone getting those as part of their annual leave allowance.

Has a higher overall 'allowance' been legislated in the UK since I left that now includes extras or is it as it always was with most people getting those days on top of whatever the minimum is, just like Canada (but with a higher minimum)?

christmasoompa Jul 4th 2017 2:28 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12286623)
Is the bolded part correct? In the link that Siouxie provided it says "An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave" rather than the 28 days includes all paid time off.

When I was still in the UK there was annual leave plus Easter/xmas/bank holidays. I never heard of anyone getting those as part of their annual leave allowance.

Has a higher overall 'allowance' been legislated in the UK since I left that now includes extras or is it as it always was with most people getting those days on top of whatever the minimum is, just like Canada (but with a higher minimum)?

The bolded part is correct, so is Siouxie's link. It's 28 days minimum, but an employer can include bank holidays in that if they wish. Most people I know get 5 weeks minimum, plus bank holidays, so works out as 6.5 weeks a year minimum, my husband gets 28 days plus BH's, so 35 days/7 weeks in total. I however am in the aforementioned self-employed category, so can take time off whenever I want, but the reality is that even on holiday I'm having to work a bit most days, even if it's just sending a couple of emails and keeping social media updated.

Shakyuk Jul 4th 2017 2:38 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by raindropsandroses (Post 12286536)
This hasn't been our experience, well, not after my husband had "proven" himself in his job anyway. At first the salary, leave and benefits were OK, nothing spectacular, pretty standard, but he was offered a lot more than the advertised starting salary...


All I want to know is:
1. Are they in Alberta?
2. Can he get me a job?


In all seriousness he sounds very fortunate to get such an awesome employer! He must also be good at his job for them to go so far for him.

Alex2201 Jul 4th 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
The Holiday thing is strange one here. Is it a case of Canadians just accepting crap as the norm? I think it depends on what you do, how high up you are and how long you are there.

I dont think that I have had less than 5 weeks off since I have lived here. Some of it unpaid. My current employer is quite happy for me to take time off as and when I want it and they were very supportive over me going back to the UK for as long as I wanted as that's the only time I see my family. The only thing that they ask is to give them as much notice as possible so they can cover.

A lot of people (this might be an Atl Can thing) seem afraid of their employer. This could be because of crap wages and limited opportunities in these parts. They seem reluctant to stand up for themselves in the workplace. Hence just accepting 2 weeks.

Interestingly when you push back at them they dont seem to have a good answer for you. I have seen at my last employer that they expect the office staff to be available to answer calls and emails 24/7 despite having a dedicated out of hours on call person. My mate and fellow BE was told off like a naughty school boy for forwarding his phone out of hours to said out of hours number. :blink::blink:
Am I on call? No. Am I on Company time? No Am I being paid? No. Is there a person on call who is being paid to look after this? Well yeah but um er... you need to be a team player and we need you to pitch in etc. Then why are you paying someone to be on call? Well they need to have a life too :blink::blink:
Are they working 24/7? No. But you expect me to? Well no....but...:banghead::banghead::banghead:

raindropsandroses Jul 4th 2017 3:14 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by Shakyuk (Post 12286634)
All I want to know is:
1. Are they in Alberta?
2. Can he get me a job?


In all seriousness he sounds very fortunate to get such an awesome employer! He must also be good at his job for them to go so far for him.

Lol, no sorry, we're in the Maritimes. He is extremely good at his job, a lot of years of experience in a very, very niche field and some experience which very few other people have, and which is almost impossible to get these days but which all employers in his field desperately want.
I may be biased but he's an absolutely lovely guy too and has glowing references.

Plus his salary here in the Maritimes is around half what he was offered when we were going to move to Alberta or Yukon, so I think both his current and new employers are aware they aren't getting a bad deal, neither could afford to match the AB or YT salaries, so they are more willing to make the job attractive in other ways if you see what I mean.

One of the advantages of working in an unpopular field in a location no-one else in your field wants to work in!

Engineer_abroad Jul 4th 2017 3:35 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
The holiday thing can take some getting used to. I get 15 days plus stats so around 25 days in total compared to my 33 in the UK. In all honesty I have not found it to be a problem. I have found that I do more book ending of stat holidays (long weekends) than big breaks and I actually find I use my weekends more than I did in the UK. The overtime law here in BC (x1.5 for anything over 8 hours a week and x2 for anything over 12 hours a day) is also better than the UK so you can accrue lieu time quicker than the think.

Novocastrian Jul 4th 2017 3:38 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 12286463)
Possibly, but I find it's usually cheaper to go to Europe than to holiday in the UK (example: this August all four of us are going to the south of France for 2 weeks - flights, a gite with a swimming pool, and car hire is £1300 for all of us!), so even if it does go up it's still affordable for a lot of people and will probably still be cheaper than internal flights etc in Canada.

Not only that, but some of us have had enough foresight to stash enough euros in an appropriate EU bank account to last for many years of part-time living there/ vacations.

confused_uk Jul 4th 2017 4:12 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by raindropsandroses (Post 12286646)
Lol, no sorry, we're in the Maritimes. He is extremely good at his job, a lot of years of experience in a very, very niche field and some experience which very few other people have, and which is almost impossible to get these days but which all employers in his field desperately want.
I may be biased but he's an absolutely lovely guy too and has glowing references.

Plus his salary here in the Maritimes is around half what he was offered when we were going to move to Alberta or Yukon, so I think both his current and new employers are aware they aren't getting a bad deal, neither could afford to match the AB or YT salaries, so they are more willing to make the job attractive in other ways if you see what I mean.

One of the advantages of working in an unpopular field in a location no-one else in your field wants to work in!

Just out of curiosity what does your husband do?

BristolUK Jul 4th 2017 6:04 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 12286626)
The bolded part is correct, so is Siouxie's link. It's 28 days minimum, but an employer can include bank holidays in that if they wish. ...

Yes, I believe that.

The part I was doubting was that comparing UK annual leave with Canadian annual leave was apples and oranges, the inference being that while low, public holidays in Canada were on top of the low figure while the higher allowance in the UK included public holidays.

While the legislation allows these days to be included in the allowance - I did quote that bit :nod: - I don't believe that an annual leave entitlement in the UK does, in practice, include xmas, easter and bank holidays.

You seem to agree with "Most people I know get 5 weeks minimum, plus bank holidays"

I found a table that shows the UK's 28 and Canada with the public days added (10 + 9) =19.

So even if every UK employer included xmas, easter and bank holidays, the UK total is half more.

:thumbup: For the UK. Regardless of apples and oranges, the allowance is better.

BristolUK Jul 4th 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by christmasoompa (Post 12286463)
...but I find it's usually cheaper to go to Europe than to holiday...

:nod: x50 :lol:

I typically had two weeks in Greece: flight, accom, transfers, often breakfast and sometimes dinner for £120-£170 while B&B in England alone was £20+ a night without the cost of getting there.

Flying Bristol to Paris or Nice was cheaper than a train to the coast.

BristolUK Jul 4th 2017 6:52 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by raindropsandroses (Post 12286646)
...He is extremely good at his job, a lot of years of experience in a very, very niche field and some experience which very few other people have,...

OMG, it's Red Adair :rofl:

Or a relative? :unsure:

raindropsandroses Jul 4th 2017 6:54 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12286774)
OMG, it's Red Adair :rofl:

Or a relative? :unsure:

Que? :confused:

raindropsandroses Jul 4th 2017 6:56 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by confused_uk (Post 12286687)
Just out of curiosity what does your husband do?

He's a scientist, he was my mentee but now the apprentice has become the master :lol:

raindropsandroses Jul 4th 2017 6:57 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
That's what we tell people anyway. If I told you the truth I'd have to kill you ;)

cheeky_monkey Jul 4th 2017 7:20 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by dgagitw (Post 12286240)
I get 5 weeks here, not all companies are so miserly....

i get 5 weeks plus a further 10 day shut down at Chrimbo and all stat holidays so that is about 40+days per year :thumbup:..which means i get more holiday than i did in the UK..where i had 26 days plus bank holidays..but i had to take a min of 5 of my days for Chrimbo.

Trouble is i never take my full compliment..thus far i have used zero of my 5 weeks.

BristolUK Jul 4th 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by raindropsandroses (Post 12286775)
Que? :confused:

From wiki:

oil well firefighter. He became notable as an innovator in the highly specialized and hazardous profession of extinguishing and capping oil well blowouts, both land-based and offshore.
Red Adair to the Rescue


With his flashy name, flashy suit, and a utility belt full of clever gadgets of his own design, Red Adair was as close as it gets to a real-life superhero. As the undisputed king of oil well fire-fighting, Adair reigned for 50 years as the oil patch's first-call defender against wells gone wild.

In a career spent battling some 2,000 oil well fires, Adair cut a heroic figure in his trademark red overalls. But this hero didn't bother with a secret identity. He embraced the heat of the blaze and the glare of the public spotlight with equal relish, and he took full advantage of the wealth his exploits earned. John Wayne played him in a movie (the Hellfighter), he guested on all the major TV talk shows,
Every time there was a problem in the news it was "send for Red Adair." :lol:

He was like a One-man International Rescue.

http://www.bis-space.com/wp-content/...12/Image-1.jpg

dbd33 Jul 4th 2017 8:19 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by cheeky_monkey (Post 12286789)
Trouble is i never take my full compliment..thus far i have used zero of my 5 weeks.

Well, yes, it's not usual to take the full complement of holiday days so the number of days nominally offered isn't that important. For example, it's common to expect people to work days that are holidays in Canada but not the US so Boxing Day, for example, tends to be a busman's holiday. Boxing Day would count in the number of statutory holidays above even if one cannot actually take it off.

jandro Jul 4th 2017 8:58 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by lukesmith2 (Post 12286218)
I wanted to start another thread to discuss with other expats how they feel on the subject of vacation in Canada and how they handle it with being so far away from family and having such little time off.

My opinion and story:

I am moving back to the UK in January, after just a year in the great white north I quickly discovered summer is very short and winter is long and arid and cold. One of the biggest parts of my decision to move back is vacation, travel was easy around the world from the UK as its affordable for the masses, taking vacation was easy also. In my profession 5 weeks holiday was obtainable from start date with all my jobs I had.

So here in Canada I have to do with a measly 2 weeks, I tried to get 4 when I started and was told after 6 months they will review it, well that happened and nothing changed, let alone that my boss doesn't want me to take any vacation as they need me at work (part of the reason I was hired is a total lack of resource in my profession here in Canada). So everybody turns on me when I take vacation. I'm not alone either my girlfriend who moved with me is just a dental admin and the same happens with her. Sure I have a nicer apartment than I would have in the UK, and overall more disposable income, but for the minor lifestyle advantage the old cliché of ''money doesn't by happiness, comes to mind''. I took 2 weeks this year and a week unpaid I had a fight to get the week off unpaid and complete awkwardness and an argument with the owner of the company over it.

I talked to colleagues and have interviewed for other jobs in my profession here and vacation is a huge deal over here. Of course I knew that I only had 2 weeks when I moved out here, and read of forums about taking unpaid time and was prepared to do it. The pure fact is even if you get 2 weeks or 3 weeks your employer wants you to take that, and thats all in most circumstances, no unpaid, no nothing.

Also this is a sad story, one of the people who works at a different company who I'm friends with, he went back to Germany as his dad was dieing of cancer, this was in January, when he was there his dad died, he was off for a total of one whole month. His company did not pay him for 2 weeks of it, and the other 2 weeks were vacation. So now he has no vacation for the whole year, and he didn't get paid, also the company is treating him like sh*t, and making him do all the awful jobs, as if punishing him for it. WTF is going on here? LOL.

After all what is the point in all the working if you can't travel and can't see your family.

:amen:

I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. In the UK I had 25 days plus bank holidays. Sometimes I didn't know what to do with them all. My first job back in Canada and I had to earn 2 weeks after one year of work. I took one unpaid week to visit family in the first year and co-workers were congratulating me since no one was taking vacation. It made me realize that vacation is seen more as a privilege than a right over here.

Left Eye Jul 5th 2017 8:56 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
I think people's experience of holiday varies widely and it's up to the individual to be informed about what they are getting into and not to jump at the first job offer. I moved back to Canada last year after enjoying the 5 weeks holiday in the UK and I wasn't too hopeful about the holiday allowance. I would have been happy with 3 weeks but ended up in a job that has 4 weeks - I had to accept a bit lower pay than other places as the holiday time was more important to me. I had a few job offers on the table and some were only two weeks, so that really influenced what path I took.

Good employers want their staff to feel rested, so I would definitely push back and question the type of work culture where there are such stingy holiday allowances. There are some good places out there that want to look after their staff!

JonboyE Jul 5th 2017 9:34 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by Left Eye (Post 12287625)
I think people's experience of holiday varies widely and it's up to the individual to be informed about what they are getting into...

Good employers want their staff to feel rested, so I would definitely push back and question the type of work culture where there are such stingy holiday allowances. There are some good places out there that want to look after their staff!

I agree with this. Although 10 days + stats is the legal minimum across Canada in practice it varies so much between industries and companies that any generalization is largely irrelevant.

I even have one client whose vacation policy is "take as much vacation as you want or need. Just make sure your work is covered."

Atlantic Xpat Jul 6th 2017 1:27 am

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by JonboyE (Post 12287650)
I agree with this. Although 10 days + stats is the legal minimum across Canada in practice it varies so much between industries and companies that any generalization is largely irrelevant.

I even have one client whose vacation policy is "take as much vacation as you want or need. Just make sure your work is covered."

Quite.

My employer starts everyone on 3 weeks. I get 4 due to position. Plus we get 3 days family leave as needed.
I've had 4 weeks vacation in all bar 2 of the 13odd years I've worked in Newfoundland.

A forward thinking employer (excluding the it pimping world of dbd) should want their employees to be rested, happy and productive. I accept that here as in the UK not all employers think that way and that conditions will vary from industry to industry and position to position. Ymmv as they say!

Reeders Jul 7th 2017 1:59 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 
You're in Canada, not in the UK. What happens in the UK is irrelevant if you live in Canada.

The work culture in Canada is simple. It is up to you to determine how much you will produce and for what rewards. Those who produce more are rewarded more. When you do not feel you are being rewarded enough for what you produce, you are free to change jobs OR figure out how to be rewarded more.

If vacation time is important to you, then it is up to you to figure out how to get the time you want. There is no universal entitlement beyond 2 weeks legislated by law but there is also no limit to what you can negotiate if you are negotiating from a position of strength. ie. you're worth keeping happy because you are a top producer.

Some immigrants have what it takes to succeed in Canada, some don't.

dbd33 Jul 7th 2017 2:16 pm

Re: Canada's vacation politics
 

Originally Posted by Reeders (Post 12289016)
The work culture in Canada is simple. It is up to you to determine how much you will produce and for what rewards. Those who produce more are rewarded more.

IME this is not true at all. People are not rewarded according to what they produce but according to a mixture of happenstance, nepotism and, sometimes, billings generated. Even when compensation is based directly upon billings generated that is not a level playing field as the person with the best connections is best placed to generate the most billings. Note that I don't say that this is unique to Canada, just that the Canadian workplace is not in any sense a meritocracy.

What is unique to North America, is that Americans and Canadians do not value holidays and tend not to take them. This is a difficult adjustment for people coming from other countries; those people will know that there are other countries than the US and Canada and will have reason to want to visit those places.

(I acknowledge Ax's points that not all workplaces are the same and that I work in fairly brutal sector, nonetheless I've been exposed to a lot of workplaces and these are my general impressions).


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