dbd33

Plainly you don't work in IT if you think:

a. SQL works against IMS
b. bank sized CIF databases can be queried in five seconds
c. files of any size containing sensitive data are emailed from banks to governments
d. banks have data of a quality to support this type of report
e. banks have historically captured the place of birth of customers

They could cobble together some randomish data, sure, and the US government could send agents to the houses of people the banks identified but the chance of the agent arriving at the house of someone who has a weak dormant claim to US citizenship is, I suggest, about equal to that of the person winning the lottery.

Again, if you're Bernie Madoff, and you're hiding in Saskatchewan, the government may come after you. But then, if you're hiding in Saskatchewan, you may be glad to be caught.

Steve_

Citizenship is routinely asked for and iirc must be given under the banking regulations so there are lots of people already in the system as US citizens.

I don't think that is really the issue, clearly they're going to get reported under FATCA. The question was about someone who has always claimed to be Canadian being found out.

Well that's somewhat far fetched, but that wasn't the point you made originally.

Steve_

You apparently didn't follow my post - I was talking about identifying people in the system ALREADY as US citizens, citizenship is something routinely asked for when you open a bank account. That is a simple SQL query of account holder info. Relevant field is in the account holder DB today, right this second.

Okay oversimplification, they use a secure portal: http://www.irs.gov/PUP/businesses/co...n_overview.pdf

The question was whether a person not currently identified as a citizen would be found out and personally I don't think it's as unlikely as yourself and JAJ are making out.

JAJ

Is it? From the Canadian Bankers Association:
http://www.cba.ca/en/consumer-inform...n-for-clients-

Will I have to provide my passport to open a bank account?
No. Under the IGA and Canadian banking law, proof of citizenship is not required to open a bank account.

Novocastrian

I was rather surprised by Steve_'s assertion too. I've never been asked for my citizenship when opening bank accounts in Canada or in several other countries.

That said, I haven't opened a new bank account in the last 5 or 6 years.

scrubbedexpat091

I wasn't asked for citizenship at either RBC or TD, they just asked for Identification, of which I used a US passport for RBC, and my PR card for TD.

But I am sure they would have accepted a drivers license or BC ID as well, they didn't specifically ask for a PR card or passport.

scrubbedexpat091

Kind of related, Cathay Pacific announced they will begin withholding 30% of pilots pay and send it to the IRS along with personal information to comply with the act, apparently its created an issue for pilots as they also have local taxes they pay apparently.



Unrelated, I called to see about help with my US taxes, just to help me fill out the forms, since I hate doing it, but regardless HR Block wanted 300 something dollars for each return, and they don't even do it here, they send it to the US to have it done, and then send it back here for me to file...

For that amount, I'll fill them out myself, total rip off.

JAJ

There is absolutely no obligation on non-U.S. employers to withhold U.S. income and payroll taxes from U.S. citizens employed locally. FATCA doesn't affect that in any way, so it's not clear what the (alleged) issue at Cathay Pacific is. Normally, media stories don't give the full facts so either it was a misunderstanding, or the pilots are being moved to a U.S. payroll for some other reason, or there's some other explanation in the background.

From the employee's point of view, as high earning U.S. citizens in a low tax jurisdiction, they should in general be making estimated U.S. income tax payments anyway.

jwtimmon

Creating and running SQL queries against an IMS database

scrubbedexpat091

The article isn't the best, the quote from Cathay is what caught my eye.

""The US Internal Revenue Service is actively seeking airlines flying into the US to ensure they are fully compliant with all US income tax requirements," Cathay said. "As an international airline flying into the US, we are working with the IRS on this compliance."

http://www.scmp.com/business/compani...ts-wages-taxes

dbd33

Requires an add-on, and would work inefficiently as it's in opposition to the structure of the database; the more common approach is to replicate the data to somewhere more easily queried.

Steve_

I've always been asked for citizenship in Canada when opening a bank account and I've opened a pretty fair number over the years.

Steve_

Well I'm just looking through some on-line applications right now and they aren't asking for citizenship but I'm here to tell you every time I've opened an account in Canada (and that is a lot of times) I've always been asked for citizenship and I've got a print off of my account details here and it lists my citizenships on it. That's why I started the thread frankly, I know the bank knows my citizenship.

Proof of citizenship is not the same thing, that's a different standard than simply asking.

Steve_

It's a single-field search. It's not that hard and even it were they would do it.

Steve_

Well that was an interesting trip through bank bureaucracy getting that answer, ye Gods.

Basically I was told that if you're not a Canadian citizen they want the information for tax compliance and tax treaty purposes, for example Part XIII of the Income Tax Act. So even if you are tax resident, they have that box on the form and people fill it in, so they type it into their account information.

They don't have to collect it unless you're non-resident but inadvertently they do, because there's nothing explicitly telling you, "only fill in this box if..."

Another bank manager told me they also use it for anti-fraud purposes, e.g. a question they can ask, and yet another told me it is also used for anti-fraud purposes with credit bureaus. I'm not sure either of those explanations are in any way related to why they collected it in the first place though.

Well interesting getting to know the bank managers at all the banks I have accounts with I suppose.

So anyway they have got this information on a lot of people and yes they could export it into a CSV file and put it through the IRS FATCA website, but they don't have it on every account holder.

So if you've happened to mention you're a US citizen to them, it is plausible it could end up in the hands of the IRS, at least for people with more than $50,000 in the bank.

Bear that in mind next time you open a bank account and see that question on the form.