fledermaus

<sighs>
Words and language are powerful tools.

What you call PCness is an attempt to remove potentially offensive words from everyday use, some words and phrases perpetuate myths, and old associations.

For example:

Deaf and dumb is not a PC phrase, nor is asking someone if they are deaf or just stupid. These sayings equate lack of hearing with stupidity. I hate them and am very annoyed if anyone uses them. I have enough trouble being treated as if I am stupid just because I haven't heard what someone has said without having to deal with the knock on effect of the words.

Discrimination may be part of the human condition, I doubt it though. Learned behaviour is and we learn that behaviour partly through the use of language.

montreal mike

You raise an interesting point.

To me there is nothing wrong or offensive with the word 'deaf'. I have no use whatsover for 'hearing-impaired' when the word deaf says it perfectly.

As to the word 'dumb' well it really means mute. Unfortunately it is widely misused and is associated with stupidity. So, as not to offend, I would be forced to use the word 'mute' which is still far better than the idiotic term 'speech impaired'

Here is an interesting link which explains it all.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dumb

montreal mike

Agreed here, but racism is inherent to the human condition from day 1. The attitude is further compounded by parents who don't know better. The good news is that most kids grow out of it.

fledermaus

Deaf and mute is generally acceptable. Deaf with a capital D is not the same as deaf with small case. Those who use sign language and have never used spoken language call themselves Deaf and some dislike being called hearing impaired. I agree that I am hearing impaired, hard of hearing, deaf, hearing loss, any of these are ok for me, tho I find that saying partially deaf means that most people understand how much hearing I have. They also say that I shouldnt call myself deaf as I hear some sounds and don't use sign language. It's a minefield though.

So PCness isn't inherently wrong, it can be taken too far though, but it's hard to judge when that happens.

montreal mike

My guess is that political correctness began as a sincere attempt not to inadvertently offend others.

But in many cases it has gone too far.

Really noticeable is how 'merry christmas' has all but disappeared to be replaced by the totally meaningless 'happy holidays'. My guess is that the hope is that no one gets offended and that includes atheists.

Also heathens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism#Heathen

DaveLovesDee

Why isn't it appropriate to say coloured person? There are a lot more importance things in the world to deal with than turning everyone politically correct. Is it ignorance for someone who can't read or write to not understand the current buzzwords to describe a persons race.

Racism, sexism, agism and discrimination isn't just about the attitude of the person doing the deed, it's also about whether the other person feels it's discriminatory. Some people have thicker skins than others, so where does the line get drawn?

Too far down is in my opinion, the younger generation are going to be turned into sissies if we don't let them learn that life isn't easy. Kids can graduate school having failed because teachers these days aren't allowed to fail children, sports is about participating not winning, and kids get to the workplace with little skills where they have little incentive to try to climb out of the minimum wage job market.

triumphguy

To answer the OP: there is probably less racism here than in the UK. Most of the majority who are white are only one or two generatios away from immigration. Many came in times of hardship. They are more tolerant because of this.

Re: non pc lables.

I have a son with down syndrome.

Note, I did not say I have a down's syndrome child.

Dr. Down does not own the syndrome, nor does he own my child. The first descriptor of my child is as my son, not downs. Nor do I capitalize the noun down. It's not about the doctor who discovered the syndrome.

That's why black person, and person of colour or so different. Are you focussing on the colour or the person.

That's why describing someone as deaf or as a person with a hearing impairment are so fundamentally different. Are you focussing on the hearing impairment or the person?

My child is not disabled -he is differently abled - the second descriptor acknowledges his strengths as well as his weaknesses. The first one - disabled - only acknowleges his struggles.

Of course it's easier to say retarded, mong, disabled, black, deaf, down's kid. But the person being labelling when doing so is the speaker.

That label is something like "ignorant stupid git."

montreal mike

Nothing wrong with saying coloured person as 99.99 per cent know exactly what it means. I can't see how it would or could cause offence as it is said without malice.

Ironically white is a colour.

as far as a blacks go i find absurd the term african-American or afro-canadian. What's wrong with plain black?

The N word is wrong though although the other word, Negro, is still a perfectly good word but likely to cause offence in some quarters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

fledermaus

I agree with you, excellent post, except for one thing. For me, I don't mind being called deaf, its an adjective and not an insult. In the same way I don't mind being called fat, which I am. I don't like the assumptions that people make about the characteristics that go with those adjectives, for instance I am not lazy or stupid. I am however defined by my hearing, my character and how I relate to people is affected by it. If someone were to describe me and for fear of offending omitted to say that I was fat or deaf or English it would make it harder for them to describe me.

I posted earlier in this thread, but, to repeat myself what I hate is being asked if I am deaf or stupid when I don't hear properly, plus I hate being called fattie, because this is used as an insult. Hope I have explained this properly.

triumphguy

I understand Fledermaus.

But I'd rather refer to you as a person with a hearing impariment and allow you to tell me "deaf is OK," than to go ahead and just call you deaf.

BTW: for those who think coloured person is OK. How does this sound? "Hey coloured person, come over here."

"Coloured person" always sounds ok when you're white. Just like disabled person sounds OK until you have a child with a disability and people start looking at him in the queue at the grocery store, and you can see them wondering - "Is that baby normal, is he a Down's child?"
And then you got to a party with other parents who have kids with downs, and they say, "Congrats on your beautiful baby." There's a big difference.

Would you prefer to be called an British expat rather than a limey twat?

GavinR

People can call me whatever they like, I don't take offence. I think it depends on the individual and how thick or thin skinned they are.

Then again, I've always worked with people who throw jibes at each other on a regular basis and think nothing of it. My name for a good few years was 'fat bastard'.

fledermaus

I see your point, you can call me a deaf person, but don't call out "Oi deafie"
-not that I would hear though. I too think its important to describe the person and not the illness/syndrome/condition.

Coloured person sounds terrible to me. It reminds me of signs from not so long ago saying "No coloureds". I imagine that's why it's not an acceptable phrase to use now.

triumphguy

Final post, then I'm gone from this topic.

Remember when you were in school - 3rd, 4th form. If you were in the in-group you didn't mind what others in the "in-group" called you. You belonged. But if the in-group insulted you and you didn't belong it was different - a whole order of magnitude different.

I'm a fat bastard too, and I'm a proud fat bastard. However, not many small people call me that! Funny how that works.

dbd33

I don't think this holds at all. The people who came and wiped out the aboriginal population were immigrants who came in times of hardship. The voting population of Israel is comprised of immigrants some of whom came in times of hardship, it's still one of the world's least tolerant nations.

I think this is hair splitting. Person with Down's, Down's syndrome person. Person favouring left hand, left handed person, all the meme chose.

montreal mike

To me it is all nonsense.

Years ago, in the late forties, I was told never to uses the word 'nigger' since it was a nasty way of saying 'negro'.

Fine. But the word colored was still OKay as I recall.

Then as a young adult I was told 'black is beautiful'; so do use the word black.

Then black was no longer a la mode. It was now to be 'African - American' or 'Afro-Canadian'.

What will it be next? In the few years I have left will I have to get used to yet another label?